300 SMK, a mile to 2000 yards, good or not?

[Tango down]

Hi

Heard from a few shooters that the 300 SMK does well at a mile, not so good after 1900 yards and crappy passed 2000 (in general). I understand it also depends on the rifle, assuming the shooter is GTG.
Curious to see if many agree, or not? What did you experience with these? Is the 300 Berger OTM a better bullet?
Talking target shooting, not hunting.

Thanks

 

[Dogtown]

I've gotten better results in the transonic window with the Scenars over the SMKs. And while I haven't made any loads with the Bergers, I've watched them shot to 2km with good results.

 

[wadcutter]

Yeah, the SMK has limits I have found. The Berger does much better to a bit further.

 

[Sako man]

Hi

Heard from a few shooters that the 300 SMK does well at a mile, not so good after 1900 yards and crappy passed 2000 (in general). I understand it also depends on the rifle, assuming the shooter is GTG.
Curious to see if many agree, or not? What did you experience with these? Is the 300 Berger OTM a better bullet?
Talking target shooting, not hunting.

Thanks

Yo Ombre, how's the Sako!

I recently shot the 300 OTM, not very far however, maybe out to 1300+, distance was unknown. But it performed really well, I mean really amazing, much more wind bucking character vs. the 250grain stuff I have been shooting. Even at 1000 I see a difference between the two. Now I do have a friend who shoots the 300smk and loves them, once again don't think he has ever taken them out close to a mile.

 

[Lowlight]

You have to push 300s hard in order to get good performance out of them. (talking far, not inside 1500m) If you are running a 338LM you are better off with 285s to 250s, and not so much 300s. People claim all kinds of greatness with them, however when you actually put them on a real target and not rocks and things, the results don't match up to the hype. Others are going strictly by the numbers they read on the internet, and while those number do read impressive, reality is not so much.

Where you can push them over 2900fps is where you see decent results, but still not always as good as the 250s & certainly not as good as 285s.

 

[Sako man]

Where you can push them over 2900fps is where you see decent results, but still not always as good as the 250s & certainly not as good as 285s.

Granted, this observation was anecdotal but I was dialing less windage with the 300s vs the 250s, and it was under the 1500.

 

[Dogtown]

Where you can push them over 2900fps is where you see decent results, but still not always as good as the 250s & certainly not as good as 285s.

One of the reasons I'm working on a 32" barrel

 

[Sako man]

One of the reasons I'm working on a 32" barrel

Whatever man, I'm working on a 64" barrel!

 

[jfields]

You have to push 300s hard in order to get good performance out of them. (talking far, not inside 1500m) If you are running a 338LM you are better off with 285s to 250s, and not so much 300s. People claim all kinds of greatness with them, however when you actually put them on a real target and not rocks and things, the results don't match up to the hype. Others are going strictly by the numbers they read on the internet, and while those number do read impressive, reality is not so much.

Where you can push them over 2900fps is where you see decent results, but still not always as good as the 250s & certainly not as good as 285s.

OK, Lowlight. You and Jacob have convinced me. I just ordered a box of the Hornady 285s to try out. I have been shooting the 300 OTMs with good results, but I'm not afraid to try new things. I finally have access to a spot to shoot out to 1900 yards, and I am planning some comparisons between the 300 Scenars, 300 OTMS and the 285s. I am pushing the 300s at around 2770, so I'm hoping for 2800 out of the 285s.

Thanks,

-J

 

[sinister]

I found (in a 1-10 barrel) 300 Match Kings flew well to 1800 Meters pushed around 2850 fps; Berger 300 Hybrids to 1900; and Lapua 300 Scenars to 2000 (at 4500 feet Above Sea Level, around 55 degrees F).

Re-read Frank's write-ups of the Hornady 285s -- they seem to fly just as well and true.

I prefer 250s (Sierras and Bergers) for a little recoil relief to 1800 yards in a 1-12 TRG-42.

 

[jfields]

I found (in a 1-10 barrel) 300 Match Kings flew well to 1800 Meters pushed around 2850 fps; Berger 300 Hybrids to 1900; and Lapua 300 Scenars to 2000 (at 4500 feet Above Sea Level, around 55 degrees F).

Re-read Frank's write-ups of the Hornady 285s -- they seem to fly just as well and true.

I prefer 250s (Sierras and Bergers) for a little recoil relief to 1800 yards in a 1-12 TRG-42.

I wonder what twist Frank is shooting and if there is an appreciable difference in the 9 twist that I shoot and the 10 twist when shooting the 300s?

 

[Lowlight]

The AIs are a 9.4, I think I have one that is a 1-10. I mostly use AIs so it makes it easy.

One note during that test we did, we were shooting for vertical spread and I completely ignored my wind at that point. This was on the 1500m target which was paper. With me focusing my hold, factory Hornady 285s held 6" of vertical at 1500m for me. Guys with hand loads had great accuracy with them, but even factory ammo was spot on.

 

[emsp]

I shoot the Lapua 300 grain Scenars, they seem to work well in my MRAD with the 9.4 twist. How do solids compare, are they worth trying?

 

[Dogtown]

One thing to keep in mind with the Hornady 285s is the pretty high tolerances on dimensions/weight. I sorted 4 or 5 boxes, allowing for +/- 1gr mass variance and a bit of base to ogive variance and ended up culling more than 25%. Scenars, in comparison, rarely culled more than 5%. Now, does that mean they are going to be all over the place at 1500m? No, but it's less uniformity to deal with. I personally couldn't get them to shoot well in my 26" 1:10 factory DTA barrel, but I'll definitely try them again when my custom 32" barrel is ready as the Gunsite test data shows that they do indeed perform exceptionally well.

emsp, I don't think solids show any particular advantage in .338 bullets at this time and it can be annoying dealing with their peculiarities.

 

[Lowlight]

They Scenars are definitely the best of the bunch when it comes to 300s and being up around 2850fps it probably a good starting point with them. I am Scenar fan for sure.

But if you get them over 2900fps, they're money.

 

[Sako man]

Guys with hand loads had great accuracy with them, but even factory ammo was spot on.

Do you know what powder the hand load guys were using for the 285s'?

Funny, but I go through twice as much powder with 338 vs. 260. I think 338 requires real commitment to the sport, or for those with a laissez-faire attitude deep pockets. I can't imagine purchasing factory ammo. Performance has it's price.

 

[Lowlight]

<--------- Too Lazy to hand load.

Look up CoryT, he may have posted his load on here, I believe they are using Retumbo or H1000, or both. One guy uses one, another guy uses another.

Both Curt & Cory had 285gr Handloads that were outstanding. Gunsite is Cory's backyard, literally, but with his Ashbury 338 and his 285gr load he is the Babe Ruth of ELR. He points, calls his shot and hits on the first round. Man-sized targets beyond 1500m, no compromise.

 

[Grizzdude]

I shoot the Lapua 300 grain Scenars, they seem to work well in my MRAD with the 9.4 twist. How do solids compare, are they worth trying?

I'm load developing for a solid right now, things look real promising, I'll have more info and I'll post it as soon as I'm done load developing this round. It's the 278gr MTAC made by cutting edge bullets. These things vary by .1gr by weight and by .001 in length.

 

[Dogtown]

Cutting Edge seems to be doing it right these days.

 

[Sako man]

Scenars, in comparison, rarely culled more than 5%. Now, does that mean they are going to be all over the place at 1500m? No, but it's less uniformity to deal with.

seems like whenever I open a box of scenars the meplats are less fucked up than my bergers or SMks, anyone else notice that.

Scenars are always good. Shot some 139s last week through the 260 and got very accurate out to 800. So I may try to develop a load with those vs. the 142SMKs.

Once again no rebate on the 250 scenars. It would be awesome if 338 goods would come down in price, seems like there is a slight premium for this caliber.

 

[Dogtown]

Once again no rebate on the 250 scenars. It would be awesome if 338 goods would come down in price, seems like there is a slight premium for this caliber.

Didn't I mention .300WM an an economical alternative? Indeed, .338LM requires a cost commitment you don't find with more widely available cartridges, let alone smaller ones. But compare it to .375CT or .50BMG and you're still in the same ballpark compared to shooting .308WIN.

 

[Sako man]

Didn't I mention .300WM an an economical alternative? Indeed, .338LM requires a cost commitment you don't find with more widely available cartridges, let alone smaller ones. But compare it to .375CT or .50BMG and you're still in the same ballpark compared to shooting .308WIN.

Yeah, you warned me totally, I'm just being a whiny shit today ... but man it's hard not to love when your driving it. As well I should have jumped to a DTA, would help me make room in the gun safe.

Might still do that.

 

[JayCarver]

Do you know what powder the hand load guys were using for the 285s'?

H-1000 or Retumbo work well.

 

[Jeffvn]

My experience irros that of Dogtown -

My 338LM Ackley shots the 300 gr. SMKs at 2,940+/-, but runs the 300 gr, Scenars at 3,000 fps (using VV570). The SMKs don't transition well for me regardless of the powder pushing them, but the scenars seem to do pretty well. I'm currently running them from a 32" 1:10 twist, but have a 9.4" tube in the garage ready to chamber and install when this on goes south.

Jeffvn

 

[pyrofx]

<--------- Too Lazy to hand load.

Look up CoryT, he may have posted his load on here, I believe they are using Retumbo or H1000, or both. One guy uses one, another guy uses another.

Both Curt & Cory had 285gr Handloads that were outstanding. Gunsite is Cory's backyard, literally, but with his Ashbury 338 and his 285gr load he is the Babe Ruth of ELR. He points, calls his shot and hits on the first round. Man-sized targets beyond 1500m, no compromise.

92.5 of Retumbo.

Greg

 

[Sako man]

My experience irros that of Dogtown -

My 338LM Ackley shots the 300 gr. SMKs at 2,940+/-, but runs the 300 gr, Scenars at 3,000 fps (using VV570). The SMKs don't transition well for me regardless of the powder pushing them, but the scenars seem to do pretty well. I'm currently running them from a 32" 1:10 twist, but have a 9.4" tube in the garage ready to chamber and install when this on goes south.

Jeffvn

I wonder if longer barrels are more sensitive to loads? I have always felt that shorter barrels were a little less sensitive due to the harmonics of a stiffer barrel. There is no arguing with the accuracy palma shooters can get but I would bet they go through some fastidious load development?

I got the Sako out today and blew through the remainder of my Retumbo and 300GR OTMs, I chronoed the rounds and defiantly the hotter loads were not very accurate, there was definitive threshold. The slower rounds were staying in or below .5 moa where the fastest loads were going over 1 moa.

 

[Dogtown]

Yup, more velocity will give you a better ballistic trajectory, but it's often not the most consistent or accurate. I've often found my most accurate ELR loads were backed-off from pressure more than I would have expected. We often try to push them as fast as they can safely go and many choose the best grouping load just below the point when pressure signs start, but sometimes it's the slower node that's actually the most accurate. Finding that sweet spot is why load development often takes a while.

 

[Tango down]

Lots of good info, we all agree it does (sometimes) takes a while to find a good load and longer for a great one. Got lucky on my TRG 22 .308, found a great one rather fast; not the same story for TRG 42 (.338LM, 1:10 twist).
This is where it is at now:
Messed around with different powders and bullets in many different configurations, Berger 250 and 300 OTM, Lapua 250 Lockbase and 300 Scenar, 285 Hornady Match and 300 SMK. Powders were Ramshot Magnum, RL 33 and H1000, also got 8 lbs of Winchester Supreme 780 but did not get to it yet. Still did not get "the load" that makes you say "WOW!" every time. Plenty of loads were good but not good enough. Thinking of it, my method was not methodical enough.
So, time for a change and tried for the first time ever a ladder test; once main details worked out (still a bunch to learn, hope it was done right), opted for H1000, 300 Berger OTM; not married to these but had to pick something and had decent results with that combo a while ago. Rounds were close to mag's max length at (OTB) 3.023, so still a lot of jump, as the 300 OTM is on the lands at (OTB) 3.136, in my rifle. Lapua brass trimmed at 2.715, CCI 250. Powder loads ranged from 88 gr to 91.3 gr, .3 increments, target range 600 yards. Did weigh the bullets, Bergers are very consistent, more than the Hornady or SMK (all good bullets too but weight fluctuates a bit more).
3 ladders, shot low to high, high to low and low to high, did not round robin but will do next time. Best node was between 88.3 and 88.9 gr; no FPS, as Mr Chrony's battery decided to die at the very beginning of the test. For the record, not heavy bolt lifts or suspicious looking primers during this test and the TRG performed well.
Looking forward to run some accuracy tests with these loads and play with seating depth but just had enough Bergers to run these ladders, so now waiting for the brown truck to show up (in a few days).
As keeping busy rules and having a plan "B" is always a plus, especially nowadays, 3 new Ladders are ready to go, this time with 300 Lapua Scenar/RL 33, loads are from 92 to 99 gr, .5 increments, planning on shooting around 500/600 yards. Bullets will seat .02 of the lands (OTB 3.132), will be looking for possible pressure signs, still Lapua brass(annealed, shot 3 times)/CCI primers.
If anybody sees that I am doing something funky and/or could improve these tests, please feel free to jump in, you won't hurt my feelings.
NB: will also try the 300 Scenar with the H1000, just curious about RL 33.

Few facts noted when messing around with different loads, in the TRG:
Shot 300 SMK (OTB 3.085), 89.5 gr H1000 at a mile (15"x24" silhouette), good accuracy even though crappy wind on that day.
Shot 285 Hornady Match/H1000 (cannot remember powder load, it's in a book somewhere), sat from .06 to .02 of lands; not so good at .06 but noticeably better at .02, closer may get even better.
Shot Factory 250 Lapua Lockbase, 1/4 MOA/100 yards, very good factory ammo (did not try them further, was a one time thing). Failed to duplicate this with my reloads (used same OTB length, same FPS) but only tried them with Ramshot Magnum. Looks like Lapua may be using N570 for these, may be the RM wasn't a good match?
Did took notice that Lowlight has a lot of good things to say about the 285 Hornady (I did read the Gunsite report, good info), even though he does not like to reload but we may not hold this against him.
Dogtown will always remind us about the possibilities of the 300WM, which makes sens for a lot of shooters.
Grizzdude, let us know how the Cutting Edge bullets are working for you; I know you will have a video out soon, looking forward to check it out.
More and more good comments about DTA, they must be doing something right.
Sako, good luck with your 64" barrel, did you have a custom made cleaning rod for that thing and how is it working out for you in the woods?

Thanks to everyone for their input, good stuff; originally was asking about the 300 SMK, to know how they were behaving after a mile, as I may be working right away on something that will hold the distance well. Didn't get a .338 to shoot at 100 yards; well, only if I have to

Good shooting to all.

 

[CA48]

I've shot the 300 smk past 2000 yards on several occasions out a .338 EDGE AI at 2776 fps. I don't have results paper but I had a spot where I would set up at and shoot at milk jugs or MOA size rocks the distance was 2400 yards. This shot with any wind was pretty difficult due to the layout of the terrain it changes direction 2 or 3 times and groups ussaly result 2 or 3 MOA in size. But when it was calm conditions it would always shoot around 1 MOA groups when I did my part. I think I had shot that area enough enough to tell that these bullets where stable and grouping well at sub sonic velocitys and this was out of a 1 in 9.3 twist at 1200ft. I've also noticed through shooting the 300 bergers and the 300 SMKs that the SMKs did not group as well as the bergers, but the SMKs grouped much more consistently in my rifle. From what I have read most rifles do not shoot the 300 SMKs well past 2000 plus their ojive design doesn't help. But mine seemed to shoot them well in good conditions at those velocities.

 

[jmptx]

You have to push 300s hard in order to get good performance out of them. (talking far, not inside 1500m) If you are running a 338LM you are better off with 285s to 250s, and not so much 300s. People claim all kinds of greatness with them, however when you actually put them on a real target and not rocks and things, the results don't match up to the hype. Others are going strictly by the numbers they read on the internet, and while those number do read impressive, reality is not so much.

Where you can push them over 2900fps is where you see decent results, but still not always as good as the 250s & certainly not as good as 285s.

I am getting great results out to 1k with 300 gr Scenars out of my DTA. Magnetospeed has them running at 2770fps. I am running 92gr of h1000. Just wondering on the thoughts of pushing them faster? I have not tried, as like I said for the range I have access to they are performing great.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Lowlight]

please spare us, 1000 yards is nothing, in the above posts I stated that it matters beyond 1500m... guys shooting inside that are not shooting ELR and your results mean very little to a guy shooting beyond 1500m.

If that work at 300 yards does that it will work at 1800 ?

 

[long range newbie]

shoulda got a 338 imp . Or someone here wanna get that 338-408 snipetac? Now that thing launches 300s crazy fast. I bet he's getting like 3200

 

[jmptx]

please spare us, 1000 yards is nothing, in the above posts I stated that it matters beyond 1500m... guys shooting inside that are not shooting ELR and your results mean very little to a guy shooting beyond 1500m.

If that work at 300 yards does that it will work at 1800 ?

I am not sure if you were replying to my question, or something else that was posted.

But my question was basically how/what are you doing to push a 300gr Scenar that fast? I wouldn't have thought you could get it going significantly faster that 2800fps without some risk over over doing it. But, I have not tried to either, like I said, mostly I shoot at 1k where ~2800fps is working well.

To further clarify, I am planning of getting out to 1500+ in the near future, so I am trying to figure out if I can tweak my existing setup enough to make that happen, without impacting the existing good performance I am getting at 1k. A follow up question would be, when you push Scenars hard, do they still perform well in the 1000y - 1500y distances? I would suspect so, but real world knowledge on the subject would be good.

 

[AVENGEUSA]

92.5 of Retumbo.

Greg

thats a hot load isnt it? i hear others using 89.5 ish

 

[Laseredge]

thats a hot load isnt it? i hear others using 89.5 ish

94gr. of Retumbo is listed Max. for 338LM using 300gr. SMK.

 

[pyrofx]

92.5 is pretty warm . Hornaday brass sucks at that load . Lapua is good . 93.5 way to hot in mine period . Book can say 94 all day long for a 300 . NOT IN MY GUN >
Greg

 

[DroidSniper]

You have to push 300s hard in order to get good performance out of them. (talking far, not inside 1500m) If you are running a 338LM you are better off with 285s to 250s, and not so much 300s. People claim all kinds of greatness with them, however when you actually put them on a real target and not rocks and things, the results don't match up to the hype. Others are going strictly by the numbers they read on the internet, and while those number do read impressive, reality is not so much.

Where you can push them over 2900fps is where you see decent results, but still not always as good as the 250s & certainly not as good as 285s.

I am running SMK's now because they were available whereas the Berger were not. I was however looking at the 285 Amax. This is of course out of a 338 Edge @ 3.900 OAL. I am really looking hard that the 285 Amax do you have any experience with it. 1 mile will be the longest range I intend to use them at. I love Berger bullets but availability seems to be really sparatic.

 

[Tango down]

You have to push 300s hard in order to get good performance out of them. (talking far, not inside 1500m) If you are running a 338LM you are better off with 285s to 250s, and not so much 300s. People claim all kinds of greatness with them, however when you actually put them on a real target and not rocks and things, the results don't match up to the hype. Others are going strictly by the numbers they read on the internet, and while those number do read impressive, reality is not so much.

Where you can push them over 2900fps is where you see decent results, but still not always as good as the 250s & certainly not as good as 285s.

Hi Lowlight

Purchased new Hornady 285 AMAX bullets today, do you have any feedback or loads on these? Have H1000, RL 33 and Ramshot Magnum for horsepower; rifle is TRG 338 1-10 twist.

Thanks

 

[werew]

Rifle: 110fcp, 1:9 twist, 26" barrel, Ross Schuler Brake, Vortex PST 6-24. Reloading Components: Lapua brass, CCI250 and H1000 used on all loads. Am very curious about RL33.
I've tested 250SMK, 300SMK, HORN285, BERG300 and BERG250's (tested at least 100 of each bullet). Of all the bullets i've used and tested, the Hornady 285's performed best/consistently at 1 mile. 2nd place goes to the Berger 300 Hybrids, 3rd Berger 250 Hybrids. As for Sierra... I won't be buying anymore 338 Sierra's anymore. The .308 SMK's ill sling all day long, love them.
The top 3 bullets did best with a .010 jump.
Just sharing my experience with these bullets at ELR.

 

[Tango down]

Rifle: 110fcp, 1:9 twist, 26" barrel, Ross Schuler Brake, Vortex PST 6-24. Reloading Components: Lapua brass, CCI250 and H1000 used on all loads. Am very curious about RL33.
I've tested 250SMK, 300SMK, HORN285, BERG300 and BERG250's (tested at least 100 of each bullet). Of all the bullets i've used and tested, the Hornady 285's performed best/consistently at 1 mile. 2nd place goes to the Berger 300 Hybrids, 3rd Berger 250 Hybrids. As for Sierra... I won't be buying anymore 338 Sierra's anymore. The .308 SMK's ill sling all day long, love them.
The top 3 bullets did best with a .010 jump.
Just sharing my experience with these bullets at ELR.

werew
Thanks for info.
The 285 Hornady you tested were the BTHP, or the AMAX? Should receive the AMAX next tuesday; shot the BTHP a while ago at .04, .03 and .02 off the lands and noticed groups getting smaller as the bullets were sat closer to the lands, didn't have a chance to get closer yet but will do soon. What distance were you shooting at?
Components same as yours, H1000, Lapua brass, CCI250 but different rifle and twist.

 

[Xtremegunnr]

I shot the 300 grain OTM at 2925 infront of 95 grains of retumbo. OAL 3.92 .015 from lands. The bullets shows great potential. I have never seen it tumble or wobble at distance.

I agree with some of the above posters regarding the 285 grainers. They do (somehow) shoot extremely well despite having terrible lot to lot characteristics. The oal with be .010 different, the ogive will be in a different spot..etc. I dont adjust my dies when i see the changes and my POI doest seem to change. Who knows.

Keep up all the good shooting guys, time to reload