Hunting & Fishing .300blk short barrel bolt action for whitetail? Twist rate?

[Maverick3009]

I'm wanting to grab a short barrel bolt action for short range (<150yds) whitetail hunting. I used a .350 Legend last season which worked well however recently my cans got approved and I'm not wanting to try and maneuver a rifle with a 16" barrel and 8" can on the end around a stand or blind. (Also, this is a good enough reason for a new range toy in the off season).

All that being said, I've been looking at the JTAC Elf Owl pistols in .300blk. I've done some research on the efficacy of .300blk as a whitetail caliber and have no qualms using it at these shorter distances (almost definitely using supers unless I find some hunting sub round with proven expansion) however JTAC offers that pistol with a 1:7 twist 9" barrel or a 1:5 twist 7.2" barrel.

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on those two barrel lengths/twist rates in relation to deer hunting? I haven't pinpointed which ammunition I'll be hunting with so that's an open field currently, would imagine something in the 110gr to 150gr range. I know some have talked about over-stabilization out of a 1:5 twist barrel but that shouldn't be an issue with a 7.2" barrel.

I'm also open to other recommendations for short barrel bolt action rifles and calibers. I'm wanting to stick to shorter range rounds as the property I hunt is about 100acres and shared with a couple others. Wanted to go shorter barreled (12.5") .350Legend however my can has a barrel restriction of 16" for .350.

 

[CaptArab]

Similar setup here.

My 16" tikka with ultra 7 is manageable but the 11.5 ar is much easier.

The AR pistol will ring my ear just a smidge but a couple shots over the winter is no big deal. I actually threw together a 9" Wilson combat 300 hamr upper I'm going to use with a nomad l. I'll probably turn the gas off and just single shot it.

I feel like the 16" tc encore / contender is probably the ultimate suppressor host for tight deer blinds.

 

[Maverick3009]

Similar setup here.

My 16" tikka with ultra 7 is manageable but the 11.5 ar is much easier.

The AR pistol will ring my ear just a smidge but a couple shots over the winter is no big deal. I actually threw together a 9" Wilson combat 300 hamr upper I'm going to use with a nomad l. I'll probably turn the gas off and just single shot it.

I feel like the 16" tc encore / contender is probably the ultimate suppressor host for tight deer blinds.

Yea, a big part of the reason I'm going bolt action is to keep noise down/no port pop/etc. I did look at TC's offerings, I just wish they offered a short barrel single shot pistol that you could put a brace on, that'd be something. Either way, both offerings from JTAC seem to be solid, just trying to figure out if there's any advantages/disadvantages in efficacy for those twist rates at the distances I'll be shooting. The 1:5 7" setup is in stock right now, the 1:7 9" won't be available till next month, so they say, which will be cutting it close as far as getting it setup in time for deer season.

 

[Codiekfx400]

Go with the 1-7 twist for 300blk Shoot the Barnes 120 tipped bullet

 

[cas6969]

For decades the go to hunting load for deer was 125gr ballistic tips and 1 in 10 twist. Or 1 in 8 if you were going to shoot the long heavies. That was with 10 +/- inch barrels in single shot pistols and the word blackout nowhere to be found.

 

[CaptArab]

Yea, a big part of the reason I'm going bolt action is to keep noise down/no port pop/etc. I did look at TC's offerings, I just wish they offered a short barrel single shot pistol

IMO you save enough length with the breach loader vs a bolt action that a 16" would be fine, but I haven't tried it, just spending your money.

Here's a 16" 350 legend for cheap you could buy and let me know if I'm wrong- https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/043125848171

That oal will be like a 10-12“ repeater.

7" blackout is gonna suck, ballistically.

 

[Maverick3009]

IMO you save enough length with the breach loader vs a bolt action that a 16" would be fine, but I haven't tried it, just spending your money.

That's true, I didn't even consider the length saved by not having an action. I'll have to give the Scouts another look.

 

[wvfarrier]

Mine is a 1:8 twist. I REALLY like the Lehigh Defense 176 grain Controlled Fracturing. I push them to 1000fps using Lil gun. Bang, flop every single time, granted I neck shoot with these. Its like hitting the "OFF" switch. These are recovered base and two petals from buck I dusted.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Mine is a 1:8 twist. I REALLY like the Lehigh Defense 176 grain Controlled Fracturing. I push them to 1000fps using Lil gun. Bang, flop every single time, granted I neck shoot with these. Its like hitting the "OFF" switch. These are recovered base and two petals from buck I dusted.View attachment 7962450

Have you shot the Cavity Back 125g BO bullets by chance?

 

[wvfarrier]

Have you shot the Cavity Back 125g BO bullets by chance?

No but I did use the 115 grain controlled chaos. I wont use them again on deer....it was awful....looked like a grenade went off inside the deer. Ruined a ton of meat. This is the exit

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I don't understand why you would use 300blk over 6.8spc if it's primary use is to hunt deer sized game at supersonic speeds. The 6.8spc just blows the 300blk out of the water in the same package. I've shot or been sitting next to one of my nephews when they shot a handful of whitetail with 300blk in the last couple years, and I'm not impressed. They almost always require follow up shots if you shoot them in the vitals. The 6.8 spc with a 120gr sst just dumps them.

My nephew shot his first deer in a treestand hunt on my place. After he shot, this 80lb deer took off running. I grabbed the rifle and put 4 more in it on the run before it stopped. It ran 150y with 3 of the 4 bullets in the vitals. Terminal performance was really underwhelming.

 

[wvfarrier]

I don't understand why you would use 300blk over 6.8spc if it's primary use is to hunt deer sized game at supersonic speeds. The 6.8spc just blows the 300blk out of the water in the same package. I've shot or been sitting next to one of my nephews when they shot a handful of whitetail with 300blk in the last couple years, and I'm not impressed. They almost always require follow up shots if you shoot them in the vitals. The 6.8 spc with a 120gr sst just dumps them.

My nephew shot his first deer in a treestand hunt on my place. After he shot, this 80lb deer took off running. I grabbed the rifle and put 4 more in it on the run before it stopped. It ran 150y with 3 of the 4 bullets in the vitals. Terminal performance was really underwhelming.

Ive NEVER needed a follow up. Neither has my wife.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Sweet. That's awesome. Doesn't change the fact that I have. I loaned the same rifle to my buddy to take his son out to kill one on juvenile season about 3 years ago. He sat in the same treestand. He put 3 bullets in that deer tracking it and shooting it 3 times before it finally died a half mile from the first shot. There is a reason that when you look at pig outfitter websites, many if not most of them state that they will not allow hunters to bring 300blk for pigs because they lose too many of them. Maybe the deer in Virginia are soft.

 

[Codiekfx400]

A 120 grain Barnes tipped Tac-tx bullet will anchor a large whitetail with one shot in 300 BLk.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I hope you fellas kill every deer you see with a 300blk. My point was that in the same setup, same ar15 with the same barrel length, the 6.8spc puts the 300blk to shame. If shooting subs isn't in the plans, the 6.8spc is worth considering.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I hope you fellas kill every deer you see with a 300blk. My point was that in the same setup, same ar15 with the same barrel length, the 6.8spc puts the 300blk to shame. If shooting subs isn't in the plans, the 6.8spc is worth considering.

I would agree that 6.8spc is better. The problem I have is my state letting me use it for whitetail. Illinois is a shit hole.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I don't understand why you would use 300blk over 6.8spc if it's primary use is to hunt deer sized game at supersonic speeds. The 6.8spc just blows the 300blk out of the water in the same package. I've shot or been sitting next to one of my nephews when they shot a handful of whitetail with 300blk in the last couple years, and I'm not impressed. They almost always require follow up shots if you shoot them in the vitals. The 6.8 spc with a 120gr sst just dumps them.

My nephew shot his first deer in a treestand hunt on my place. After he shot, this 80lb deer took off running. I grabbed the rifle and put 4 more in it on the run before it stopped. It ran 150y with 3 of the 4 bullets in the vitals. Terminal performance was really underwhelming.

What bullet and what range

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

It's been a few years since these events, but I believe it was the stuff in the attached picture. I thought I remembered them being 125gr, but it may have been 150gr. I remember the box was marked "deer season" or "deer hunting" because I was so disgusted with the performance on actual deer. I now load my own 300blk for coyotes in tight timber, and it does great with 125gr TGK, 110gr V-max, and 120gr TTSX, but my days of shooting deer with it are over.

 

[roostercogburn98]

It's been a few years since these events, but I believe it was the stuff in the attached picture. I thought I remembered them being 125gr, but it may have been 150gr. I remember the box was marked "deer season" or "deer hunting" because I was so disgusted with the performance on actual deer. I now load my own 300blk for coyotes in tight timber, and it does great with 125gr TGK, 110gr V-max, and 120gr TTSX, but my days of shooting deer with it are over.

Personally wouldn’t trust a 150g projectile to perform in 300BO. That round is only doing 1900fps from a 16 inch barrel. I’ve loaded 150g hornady spire points to high 1800s, low 1900s and watched it pass through 7 milk jugs. It only started to tumble/deform on the 5th jug.

110-125 would be the only thing I truly trust unless it was one of the controlled chaos rounds, and even then I’d prefer 110-125 range.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I was just looking at data for the sake of this discussion, and there is roughly 300fps difference at the same bullet weight between 300blk and 6.8spc. Same platform and barrel length, I'll stand behind my statement that if subs aren't part of the equation, the 6.8spc just blows it out of the water. We are talking about the same m.v. difference between .308 and 300wm. It is significant.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I was just looking at data for the sake of this discussion, and there is roughly 300fps difference at the same bullet weight between 300blk and 6.8spc. Same platform and barrel length, I'll stand behind my statement that if subs aren't part of the equation, the 6.8spc just blows it out of the water. We are talking about the same m.v. difference between .308 and 300wm. It is significant.

300 fps more would put this type of bullet into the “suggested” speed range for that bullet type.

My guess on why 6.8spc isn’t more popular is that before 224 Valkyrie, there was only one round that used that bolt face. Couple that with so so magazine choices early on, people just didn’t care for the caliber. That’s how understand it anyway?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

The real winner on that blotface is the .25 gpc. It is just nasty. Excellent for pigs, deer and coyotes. There was a company that was selling dies and manufacturing barrels and brass, but looking at their website, I think they went out of business. Would shoot a 115gr at 2600+ in a 16" barrel if memory serves. I drug my feet on buying one when they were selling them..

 

[roostercogburn98]

Maddog still sells stuff for it

 

[Ronws]

No dog in this fight because I shoot Federal Fusion .308 Win 165 gr. Out of my TC Compass II it gives me a .5 MOA average.

I have seen a guy bring down a moose with one shot from a 6.5 Creedmoor. Another guy hunting elk needed 3 shots with his 7 mm Rem Mag.

And someone I know personally who shot an Aoudad right through the boiler room with his .300 Win Mag. And racked another round because that ram ran 30 yards straight at him on it's last heartbeat. A second shot turned out to not be necessary.

Anyone's mileage may vary.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I'm wanting to grab a short barrel bolt action for short range (<150yds) whitetail hunting. I used a .350 Legend last season which worked well however recently my cans got approved and I'm not wanting to try and maneuver a rifle with a 16" barrel and 8" can on the end around a stand or blind. (Also, this is a good enough reason for a new range toy in the off season).

All that being said, I've been looking at the JTAC Elf Owl pistols in .300blk. I've done some research on the efficacy of .300blk as a whitetail caliber and have no qualms using it at these shorter distances (almost definitely using supers unless I find some hunting sub round with proven expansion) however JTAC offers that pistol with a 1:7 twist 9" barrel or a 1:5 twist 7.2" barrel.

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on those two barrel lengths/twist rates in relation to deer hunting? I haven't pinpointed which ammunition I'll be hunting with so that's an open field currently, would imagine something in the 110gr to 150gr range. I know some have talked about over-stabilization out of a 1:5 twist barrel but that shouldn't be an issue with a 7.2" barrel.

I'm also open to other recommendations for short barrel bolt action rifles and calibers. I'm wanting to stick to shorter range rounds as the property I hunt is about 100acres and shared with a couple others. Wanted to go shorter barreled (12.5") .350Legend however my can has a barrel restriction of 16" for .350.

I would recommend going with the 6.5 Grendel on that chassis, and finish it around 12". Even adding your can will keep the total barrel length under the 20".

 

[Maverick3009]

I would recommend going with the 6.5 Grendel on that chassis, and finish it around 12". Even adding your can will keep the total barrel length under the 20".

I did look at the grendel however I was hoping to stick to something with a shorter effective range.

I looked into the 6.8spc and it does seem to fit the bill however factory offerings and ammunition support for it seem to be lacking.

The mixed reviews/results I've heard about relating to the .300bo do cause me some hesitation. I think I maybe keep using my .350L for this season and come January/February may look into doing like a 12.5" SBR .350L on a Howa mini action or something. That'll give me an excuse to buy a new can too.

 

[Gary Paugh]

I have an 8" 300 BLK, 11.5" 6.8 SPC and a 10" 44 MAG the .44 mag is my all time favorite for deer shooting heavy subs or supers it just knocks them down, pic of my T/C encore 10" 44mag with a hybrid suppressor.

 

[Maverick3009]

I have an 8" 300 BLK, 11.5" 6.8 SPC and a 10" 44 MAG the .44 mag is my all time favorite for deer shooting heavy subs or supers it just knocks them down, pic of my T/C encore 10" 44mag with a hybrid suppressor.

Hoe well does that .44 suppress?

 

[Gary Paugh]

Hoe well does that .44 suppress?

320 gr bullets with a light charge of W-231 is back yard quite, full power loads are hearing safe.

 

[Maverick3009]

320 gr bullets with a light charge of W-231 is back yard quite, full power loads are hearing safe.

That's a sweet setup, I wouldn't mind doing something like that but not sure I'd want to deal with paying for a stamp for it.

 

[Gary Paugh]

That's a sweet setup, I wouldn't mind doing something like that but not sure I'd want to deal with paying for a stamp for it.

Here is a pic of same gun with an 18" barrel, great setup I just really like 10-12" barrels.

 

[Maverick3009]

Here is a pic of same gun with an 18" barrel, great setup I just really like 10-12" barrels.

Oh I agree, the lighter and more compact the better. I hate lugging my 10lb rifle up to the stand using a tow line

 

[wvfarrier]

The speer 130 tnt at blackout velocities is a fantastic projectile. They expand like a Barnes tsx without the prices

 

[st1650]

Mine is a 1:8 twist. I REALLY like the Lehigh Defense 176 grain Controlled Fracturing. I push them to 1000fps using Lil gun. Bang, flop every single time, granted I neck shoot with these. Its like hitting the "OFF" switch. These are recovered base and two petals from buck I dusted.View attachment 7962450

Same experience here with the LeHigh 174 at 1020 FPS. I head shot a buck at about 120 yards. DRT. Was using a R700 in a MDT chassis with a vxr patrol 3-9 mil/mil, I think it was either 1:7 or 1;8 twist. Great bullets, just too expensive for my taste.
My next thumper project will be a 450 BM with the 395 SubX.

 

[Ronws]

Same experience here with the LeHigh 174 at 1020 FPS. I head shot a buck at about 120 yards. DRT. Was using a R700 in a MDT chassis with a vxr patrol 3-9 mil/mil, I think it was either 1:7 or 1;8 twist. Great bullets, just too expensive for my taste.
My next thumper project will be a 450 BM with the 395 SubX.

One my favorite firearm companies is Windham Weaponry and they have a semi-auto in .450 BM and they call it the 450 Thumper. Comes with a Magpul PRS gen III stock on it. Anyway, just thought about it when you mentioned your next project.

 

[st1650]

Personally wouldn’t trust a 150g projectile to perform in 300BO. That round is only doing 1900fps from a 16 inch barrel. I’ve loaded 150g hornady spire points to high 1800s, low 1900s and watched it pass through 7 milk jugs. It only started to tumble/deform on the 5th jug.

110-125 would be the only thing I truly trust unless it was one of the controlled chaos rounds, and even then I’d prefer 110-125 range.

I agree. I had a bad experience with the Speer 150 and it was sold as a expanding round at low speed, never again. If I’m using supersonic I’ll use the Barnes 110.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I agree. I had a bad experience with the Speer 150 and it was sold as a expanding round at low speed, never again. If I’m using supersonic I’ll use the Barnes 110.

Those soft point 150s are supposed to be going at least 2100fps. I had some loaded, but like you have went back to the 110 for deer. Will see how well they work this year hopefully

 

[wvfarrier]

Same experience here with the LeHigh 174 at 1020 FPS. I head shot a buck at about 120 yards. DRT. Was using a R700 in a MDT chassis with a vxr patrol 3-9 mil/mil, I think it was either 1:7 or 1;8 twist. Great bullets, just too expensive for my taste.
My next thumper project will be a 450 BM with the 395 SubX.

For hunting, predator control they are worth it. For every day fun, supersonic hunting, the 130 Speer TNT are excellent at BO velocities. They work almost identically to the barnes tsx. Great expansion and energy dump.

 

[qtmac_mien]

I dropped a back tail this year with my 9" 300blk out 1:8 twist pork sword around 80yrds using the Barnes 110g TSX copper and the bullet mushroomed out nicely without separating. The bullet blew out one side of the shoulder blade and lodged on the inner skin of the other side.

 

[st1650]

I dropped a back tail this year with my 9" 300blk out 1:8 twist pork sword around 80yrds using the Barnes 110g TSX copper and the bullet mushroomed out nicely without separating. The bullet blew out one side of the shoulder blade and lodged on the inner skin of the other side.

Can't go wrong with the Barnes 110 in a 300BLK. Great accuracy, great terminal performance.

 

[Landon4]

Took a doe last year with a suppressed 8.2 1/7 twist 300 blk, using 110 v max she went maybe 20 yds