.308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

[plh]

I'm getting ready to work up a 175/178 GR round for longer distance in an FNA2 24" 1:12. The write up on the Berger 175 GR Tactical OTM bullet looks promising at magazine length. There is a wealth of info. on powders, primers etc. here on the site but nothing I've found on this particular bullet. This is my initial foray into reloading and your experiences/comments are welcomed to guide my selection.
Thanks, Pete

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/03/new-308-win-tactical-ammo-from-applied-ballistics/ (scroll down for the bullet report)

http://www.shooting.com.au/forum/index.php?/topic/3643-just-in-new-berger-308-tactical-bullet/

 

[5R Milspec]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

I think Bryan was useing Varget when he tested the bullets him self.but not sure wht the charge weight was.I think he didn't say now that I recall.

just use what you have on hand.4895,R15,varget,4064 all come to mind.and they all work really well with a 175gn bullet.

 

[LawnMM]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

The Berger bullets are nice. I've never used them but I've heard, and read, great things about them here. Bryan Litz knows his stuff and I'm sure they are great bullets to load with.

That said, I don't know that they're so much better than other 175/178gr offerings to justify twice the price per box of projectiles. I think you are better off shooting a negligibly less efficient bullet twice as much and coming away with twice the trigger time and experience than you are using the better projectiles half as often.

Work up a load with the 178 amax and Varget and shoot a lot. Equipment is nice but I've noticed bigger advances with my shooting after more practice than I have obtaining better gear.

Rich

 

[plh]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Thanks 5R,
At present all I have is spent brass, and a boat load of that. Varget will be my powder purchase leaving the bullet selection up for grabs. The Bergers are .08$/round more expensive than the SMK's but on paper appear to be a better choice. Speaking of powders, any opinion on IMR 8208 XBR ?

 

[glock24]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

8208 XBR is too fast for this bullet weight. I've heard good things with it and 155g Scenars though.

I think you'll be very happy with Varget.

 

[plh]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

I really appreciate the counsel. I've found the Bergers for 42$/100 at 3rd Gen. Shooting Supply which is 8 cents more/bullet than their SMK's. It'll make them a bit more expensive but it will pale when compared to the $$ I've dropped on factory ammo. I guess I can do a 100 of each , compare, and report.

 

[Raider Power]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Hodgdon's loading manual shows data for 8208 all the way up to 200 grain bullets. I've worked on some loads for 178 grain AMAX's and found it to shoot pretty well. Not as good as my Varget loads, but it's probably the third most accurate powder I have shot with those bullets, with Reloader 15 being the second most accurate.

I'd be curious to hear what your results are, I've been contemplating buying some of the Berger 175's too.

 

[madd0c]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Will have some of the Berger 175 tacs this week from Midway. My standard load is 43.4 gr Varget behind a 175 SMK. Will be two weeks before I can shoot, but if no one has posted anything up I will try to do a comparison.

madd0c

 

[LawnMM]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete H.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really appreciate the counsel. I've found the Bergers for 42$/100 at 3rd Gen. Shooting Supply which is 8 cents more/bullet than their SMK's. It'll make them a bit more expensive but it will pale when compared to the $$ I've dropped on factory ammo. I guess I can do a 100 of each , compare, and report. </div></div>

You should be able to find SMKs for around 30-32 bucks a box on the internet and AMAXes for around 25-28.

42 bucks per 100 is steep, but if you're into em, go for it.

Rich

 

[plh]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

After the rifle, glass,spotting scope, tripod/ballhead, bags, ammo, bore guide, etc., my wife would suspect a stroke if there suddenly appeared even a hint of frugality

. That said, I'm with you on the $$'s.

 

[plh]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Looking forward to your report! I'm probably a couple of weeks behind you in getting things together.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: madd0c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will have some of the Berger 175 tacs this week from Midway. My standard load is 43.4 gr Varget behind a 175 SMK. Will be two weeks before I can shoot, but if no one has posted anything up I will try to do a comparison.

madd0c </div></div>

 

[Outlaw5]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

I have Berger 175 VLD Hunting bullets in Winchester Brass/Varget Powder 42Gr/ Win Larger Rifle Primers. This round is very accurate out to 450 meters so far. I haven't shot any deer past that distance. I'll say, although it may not be going as fast as I could push it with more Varget, the 42 Grains gives me the absolute best accuracy. With a 200m zero I have a ragged hole for 4 rounds during 100m confirmation zero. If you can stand the price I highly recommend this round! Just my .02 cents.

Jerry "Outlaw5" Perkins

 

[adrenalinelife]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

I am getting into reloading as well what is the difference between the Berger VLD 175 Hunting bullet and the Berger 175 Tac's?

 

[harley_jeff]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

My understanding is the jackets are different. Hunting jackets are designed to fragment in game and target are not.

 

[targaflorio]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Is this the Berger bullet?
Berger Tactical Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 175 Grain Open Tip Match Box of 100
Product #: 133493Manufacturer #: 30105
$48.49 retail at Midway

 

[Huckleberry75]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Looks right.

 

[plh]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Bingo!

 

[TexIndian]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trajectory_student</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am getting into reloading as well what is the difference between the Berger VLD 175 Hunting bullet and the Berger 175 Tac's?
</div></div>

The Hunting bullets have a thinner jacket for great expansion on big game. But like many of the VLDs, they tend to shoot better when stretched out too long to fit in a magazine. They can be finicky in that regard.

The tactical bullets are new. They have a different ogive shape and are less sensitive to length requirements than the VLDs. They are made to shoot well in mag-fed guns. They are not recommended for hunting but the jackets are halfway between the target bullets and hunting bullets in thickness, so how they expand is kinda unknown. They are supposed to maintain stability even when crossing the sonic barrier, something most bullets won't do.

 

[2plus3r]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

I shoot a bone stock 5r milspec. with lapua brass 44 grains of RL-15, necks turned and .oo2 tension. With a 175 smk I need 10.5 mils of elevation to hit 1000 yards. Same exact loading with the Berger 175 OTM needs 9.5 mils. The Berger is now what I shoot and have hit 1175 yrds with it. The SMK wont do that.

 

[EricStecker]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Old Tex nailed it. The 175 gr OTM Tactical is made with a thicker jacket to ensure performance under the harshest of field conditions. However the nose is the same thickness as the Hunting bullets. The primary goal was to make a bullet that hit what you are aiming at over a wide range of distances consistently. The terminal performance of this bullet is lethal but not specifically tested.

These bullets were purposefully designed by Bryan to be stable through the transonic speed regime. This allows for those who know how to stretch their range out to considerably further distances with consistent accuracy performance.

Regarding price, I can assure you that we keep our prices as low as we possibly can. We use the highest grade of materials and precision made tooling. Our process is deliberately slower to ensure dimensional consistency. Our primary objective is slightly different than the other brands. Frankly, I am glad that there are both options available as there are many different types of shooters and shooting. Better to have options than not have them in my opinion.

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Berger Bullets

 

[plh]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Well I'm 400+ rounds (chuckle if you feel the need) into the process of load development, seating depths, and all the nuance of handloading. I can report with a fair degree of confidence that for <span style="text-decoration: underline">my</span> rifle (FN A2 SPR 24" 1:12) the Berger 175 Gr. Tactical OTM performs respectfully ( for a beginner at centerfire shooting and reloading ) at distance but my goal of producing a magazine length round has been thwarted as accuracy suffered with any degree of jump (.005-.100 off the lands evaluated). Most of the testing has been at 200 yards with every permutation of Varget charge and seating depth. The best performance was found with the bullets seated out .015" into the lands. There were two powder weights, 43.1 and 44.1 that worked well with consistent groups of .3-4 MOA and .5-.6 MOA respectively at 200. I took around 65 rounds of the 43.1 out to a 1000 yesterday and had a 6-8 " vertical spread. Sadly the wind was 10-20mph cross and quartered instead of the forecasted 4-6 tailwind so there was a good bit of horizontal dispersion. Of interest, the 44.1 load produced a 1" vertical spread on a 500 yrd test target so I'll be loading up some of these for a return trip to Tac-Pro to see how they behave at 1000. It's been a lot of loading and shooting but I'm learning a lot and having a good time. Hat tip to B. Smith and F. Vance for their sound counsel and patience.

 

[5RWill]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Here's my load with Berger 175gr BT LRs, which have a .010 BC advantage over the 175gr SMK, you pay for it but that doesn't bother me. I like it because that little extra BC really helps squeeze a little more performance out of the .308 @ 1000yds. Anyway i get good groups out of this load

Brass: Nosler
Powder: 44gr Varget
Primer: Fed 210m
COL: 2.805

 

[plh]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

I'm at 2.188 ogive to base (.015 into the lands) and 2.94 COAL.

 

[ED_RN]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Have tried really backing the Bergers off like 20 40 60 thosandths off the lands?

 

[plh]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Yea, I actually was seating them to a false chamber dimension during the initial load work-up. What I thought was the beginning of the lands was actually a carbon ring formed from 6-700 rounds of factory ammo. A little wipe-out session revealed an 'extra' .115". Not to say I wasn't adequately warned to get a CLEAN chamber before taking measurements. So in essence I initially loaded a mess of bullets in and out from .100 from the lands followed by another mess at actual length backed out to meet the first batch. That's where the 400+ rounds have come from. All in the name of science eh?

 

[Leaddog]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

I said goodbye to Sierra's a long time ago. The Bergers are superior in every way. I shoot the Berger 185 LRBT because both of my rifles are 10 twist barrels. .010 to .020 off the lands works well. If I had a 12 twist, I would shoot the Berger 175 BT's over the TAC's, but that's just me.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: .308 175GR ; Berger Tac vs SMK

Hi they are all great bullets but i have recently been amased with the Barnes Match Burners they are realy well priced and have been very accurate in 68gr 6mm Benchrest, 105gr 6mm VLD, 52gr 224 Benchrest, 85gr 224 VLD, 155gr 30cal palma and the 175gr 30 cal VLD,s we have tested them and they are as accurate as the sierra matchkings all were seating depth tolerant and shot well. all the VLD's and the palma 155's were shot to 1000 yards. i cant wait until the new 7mm 171gr VLD is released this year. if i was you i would give them a try as they are also well priced.
Just a note they are a conventional copper jacketed lead core bullet.

 

[BIGFATJEF]

I'm getting ready to work up a 175/178 GR round for longer distance in an FNA2 24" 1:12. The write up on the Berger 175 GR Tactical OTM bullet looks promising at magazine length. There is a wealth of info. on powders, primers etc. here on the site but nothing I've found on this particular bullet. This is my initial foray into reloading and your experiences/comments are welcomed to guide my selection.
Thanks, Pete

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/03/new-308-win-tactical-ammo-from-applied-ballistics/ (scroll down for the bullet report)

http://www.shooting.com.au/forum/index.php?/topic/3643-just-in-new-berger-308-tactical-bullet/

5 shots Berger 175 gr OTM bullet - 44.3 grains reloader 15 for 2697 fps per lyman 50th and new Lapua brass - new recipe and just starting to dial in the rifle and scope - these 5 shots were only at 25 yards as again just starting with this recipe but looking good so far - Wilson Combat super sniper fluted barrel in AR10 platform - I read that Lake City sniper ammo for the Army was with Reloader 15 so had to try it - (((*** FYI ***))) Per Lyman they list reloader 15 in the chart as RX15 whereas Hornady shows it as RL15 - had to do some digging to discover that.

 

[BIGFATJEF]

5 shots Berger 175 gr OTM bullet - 44.3 grains reloader 15 for 2697 fps per lyman 50th and new Lapua brass - new recipe and just starting to dial in the rifle and scope - these 5 shots were only at 25 yards as again just starting with this recipe but looking good so far - Wilson Combat super sniper fluted barrel in AR10 platform - I read that Lake City sniper ammo for the Army was with Reloader 15 so had to try it - (((*** FYI ***))) Per Lyman they list reloader 15 in the chart as RX15 whereas Hornady shows it as RL15 - had to do some digging to discover that.

Also - I am dialing in for 500 meter silhouette and 1000 yard fun. try not to mix n match if your going long range - use all same brass primers etc. The Lapua brass is tough stuff - another FYI - if your loading for a semi auto platform use the small base dies - I was having trouble after using the full length dies that were not small base and switching fixed that.

 

[KYAggie]

Talk about resurrecting and long dead thread……. Glad they are working out so well for you, now stretch it’s legs and show us what it will really do.

 

[BIGFATJEF]

Talk about resurrecting and long dead thread……. Glad they are working out so well for you, now stretch it’s legs and show us what it will really do.

My first group at 300 yards in high wind with temp getting into the 80s. I didn't dial any drop into the scope yet this is still 0W 0E -- Next pass dialed in 5 moa was too much so dialed back to 2 moa and got a lot closer to the bullseye