.308 Battle Rifle

demonsmokr

demonsmokr

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Minuteman
Aug 15, 2009
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The Lone Star State
#1
I know this topic has been done, but the search engine on this site is not too accurate. I just want to know what all of you feel is the best 308 battle rifle. Or if there is a better caliber, let me hear it. I am looking into building an M1A or FAL from DSA. Or Im open to other suggestions as well. This is pretty much a SHTF rifle. I have an Armalite AR10 now, a few shotguns, several pistols, 2 Rem700. I want another semiauto rifle I can sit in the corner and be able to grab it when I need it and it go bang. I would also like to see some custom FALs and decked out M1As, Im being too lazy to search right now. Saiga 308s, FALs, Cetmes, Hk91s, G3s, which would be a good one to build? My concerns are parts availability, magazines, reliability, accuracy upto 300yds, typical stuff for a battle rifle. What are your personal accounts and experiences with these freedom fighters
 
#4
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

A halfway decent AK, some extra parts and a pile of corrosive surplus ammo might be a better idea for what you're talking about. AK's aren't expensive, the ammo is cheap, and that surplus stuff lasts a really long time. Also, if you don't yet own a 223 caliber AR maybe get that instead? 223 ammo is relatively inexpensive and plentiful and AR's can be configured in a bazillion ways.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoatHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are your personal accounts and experiences with these freedom fighters </div></div>

I have a mod that adds FAL's, G3's, AR-10s/15's, SVD's and AK's to Fallout 3 if that means anything to you.
 
#5
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoatHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an Armalite AR10 already. I'm sure the LMT is fine, but what does it offer over the Armalite?</div></div>
What are you trying to accomplish that your AR-10 doesn't already do?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoatHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm being too lazy to search right now.</div></div>Get over it.
 
#6
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

I'm not sure what to make of your question. I have a M1A, LMT MWS and a HK91. If I set them in a corner and pick them up they are all capable of going bang. What do you want out of another battle rifle that your AR10 is not capable of delivering?
 
#7
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a mod that adds FAL's, G3's, AR-10s/15's, SVD's and AK's to Fallout 3 if that means anything to you. </div></div>

*raises hand* OOO OOO OOO!!! can I have that!? LOL

(Seriously though... pm me with a link for it, I'm hooked on that darn game.)
 
#8
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

I think the answers you get from your question comes down to personal preference and choice. But, I would say that the best SHTF weapon is the one that you have the most ammo for and replacement parts. In the USA, that usually means an AR type weapon. An AK is good but make sure you have spare parts because stuff does break. And, as poster said above, the AK is a weapon that is cheap and has lots of ammo. I on the other hand, will go with my AR's as they have served me the best throughout my career and I know them the best and have lots of ammo for them.
 
#9
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

You said 300 yards...well, look into a good AR platform, preferably gas-piston operated. Or invest in an Arsenal-built AK47 or 74. Since you already have AR10, I see no reason to spend $2000 on M1A.
 
#10
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

My MBR was an M14, and I was trained to employ it effectively out to 500yd. In 13 months of combat, it never failed me, and I never broke it.

These days I'm not permitted an M14. Having owned an AR15, M1A, and a Garand; my choice would be with the Garand. There are no substitutes for durability and terminal energy.

I was fortunate enough to be USMC trained on both the M14 and Garand under quite realistic field conditions. Many rifles have taken on the assignment, but in my personal experience and with additional historical research, I prefer the Garand.

I don't maintain a go-bag, but I do keep the Garand in a ready condition with a reliable battle-zero, along with at least 80rd of match quality M-2 ball equivalent handloaded ammo in enblocs.

The rifle is glassbedded and has hooded ring front, N/M rear peep match sights, along with a 1" LOP rubber extension butt pad. Accuracy performance equals N/M spec, or better. 300yd battle sight setting, center mass hold, nobody walks away at least out to around 500yd.

Greg
 
#11
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoatHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an Armalite AR10 now, ... I want another semiauto rifle I can sit in the corner and be able to grab it when I need it and it go bang. </div></div>

M14... the sub MOA 18.0" MK14 SEI in particular comes to mind.
 
#12
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ark_Boondock</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a mod that adds FAL's, G3's, AR-10s/15's, SVD's and AK's to Fallout 3 if that means anything to you. </div></div>

*raises hand* OOO OOO OOO!!! can I have that!? LOL

(Seriously though... pm me with a link for it, I'm hooked on that darn game.) </div></div>

Check out fallout3nexus.com, tons of stuff on there. Krigos SVD pack, PSG-1 sniper pack, AK74, Mini Uzi suppressed, couple others. You may have to modify them using the GECK as the modders that make them like to do cute things like make them use 54R, 5.45, 9MM etc ammo instead of the 10mm, 556, and 308 found in-game.
 
#14
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have an AR10 I would just work on perfecting your manual of arms with that weapon.

It's nice to have a pile of battle rifles, but that means you will be familiar with many but expert with none. </div></div>X2. For a grab 'n go .308 battle rifle you're not going to beat an AR10. I hve a couple fancy ones, but I'm seriously thinking of building another just like you say... plain jane A4 carbine just to sit in the corner.
 
#16
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

First off, sorry for not keeping up, been busy this weekend. Im wanting something I dont have to clean everyday, I baby my AR10. I know its supposed to be a battle rifle, but it is a little finicky. I guess Id like AK reliability in a bigger cartridge. To stay with 308, thats what all my rifles are. Ammo continuity. I have the AR10, so I dont want the AR15. Nothing against it, just feels too much like a toy next to its big brother. Im not looking for customization really, thats what the AR10 is for. I was interested in the M1A, because I have found one beat the hell up at a pawn shop for 800$. It would be worth putting a little more into making it shoot concrete bullets. Im not looking for rails, sights, yada yada. Just something to let sit in my the back of my truck kind of thing. I have also found cheap parts for the FAL, and just mentioned DSA because of the different receivers they have. I was curious on other parts availability on the FALs and such. I know the AR15 is Americas baby, but Im just after ammo conservation, having multiple guns in the same caliber. If they had 308 pistols, yes I would be all over that. As for Fallout 3, that game makes me upset because you can kill everything but children, you can enslave a few kids, but not kill them. So its a gun I want to use to beat up and not abuse my AR10 is what Im after.
 
#17
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

Also thanks Oodin for the link. I actually found other worthless info I was curious about knowing. It does work much better than the one on here. I just used it to search about Remingtons supposed 1000yd 1/2 MOA custom XM3. And whats wrong with a pile of battle rifles? I can be a master of my AR10, and mediocre with the rest. Thats my point, I really like guns. So much that it would be more of a problem if I had more money. Collecting and building guns is a cheaper hobby than cars or trucks. No I have never been in the service, so I dont have alot of experience. But Im still young enough to join, and hold it as my number 1 option if/when I get canned after this year. Im curious because my birthday is coming up and Im looking for my present to myself. I would just like to build my semi 308 collection. Im working on having a gun for every year I am old.
 
#18
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoatHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And whats wrong with a pile of battle rifles? I can be a master of my AR10, and mediocre with the rest.</div></div>

That's great if it works that way. Unfortunately it rarely does.

If you just want another cool gun, then rock on.
 
#19
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

for in town fighting m1a socom

4388.jpg


for longer ranges ar-10t

021.jpg
 
#21
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

G3 with the additional scope mount or rail on top of the action.

little has changed since it was made and it is still by far one of the best,

hell even I can shoot well with it.

Having shot a garand just the other weekend, sure it´s a nice thing but still a G3 is better.

Still that is just me.

/Chris
 
#22
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

g3's are clunky battleaxes. short fal would be my goto for urban, id go m1a for long or maybe ar-10 but they seem less balanced to me than m1a. all this stuff is really more or less operator preferance. imho
 
#23
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

I LOVED how stout my DSA SA58c was.... but I could never really warm up to the controls. I much prefer similer systems so I replaced the FAL with an LMT MWS. You will pay a weight penalty for this rifle but if a 308 is what you want, I think it is a great option. I took her out for a shakedown run yesturday. COM at 50 yds rapid fire was a little harder than a 5.56 but I think will improve once I get used to this rig. It held 2 moa at 100. For this ammo I think thats pretty good. It was very well centered around the bull. This was with early 80's manufacture San Bernadino surplus ammo.
 
#24
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

i like to keep it simple stupid so when i know a system i just stick with it so for me i have three ar15's (SBR, 14.5", Mk12) and two ar10's (16" and a 20"). all the controls are the same, grips are the same, stocks are the same for the carbines, and same for the spr's. it makes things easy. actually my transition to a SCAR was fairly easy too the only diference is the charging handle which is still find myself goin to the spot where it should be on a ar but oh well, so far i like it.
 
#25
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

G3 mags are probably the cheapest out there right now - not that mag cost should drive your decision.

This is a Ford/Chevy discussion. That said, the only option the FAL seems to really kick in is the adjustable gas feature. Other than that, it is reliable, but not as accurate as my M1A SuperMatch, which is then upstaged by the AR-10 types.

Then again, you are not looking for sniping, just battle rifle accuracy. Minute of man at 300 yards is within the capabilities of the FN/FAL with milsurp. As intended.

Mine is an Argy upper with DSA lower and other 922r compliance bits. Top it off with an IOR fixed 4x, and it looks like this:

IMGP2324.jpg
 
#26
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

WildBill;

That SOCOM folder looks rather a bit like an M14 we had at Cua Viet, which had become a 'combat loss'. One of our AMTRACs had run it over just beyond the gas cylinder, and one enterprising soul hacksawed the barrel off along with the stock behind the pistol grip.

Someone cajoled the Armorer to add a selector and 'Mighty Mouse' was born. It served as a spray and pray patrol 'equalizer' that got passed around when folks were going outside the wire.

There was no pretense about accuracy; but when somebody wanted 20 rounds going 'that way' in a hurry, 'Mousie' would suffice.

Greg
 
#27
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

I understand with the muscle memory. But, I have not been in the service and issued an AR15 type or M14. So the only muscle memory I really have is my bolt guns. The AR10 is still new. I wanted a cheap, reliable semi 308 for hitting man sized targets out to 300. 2MOA is actually more than what I am after. I got the precision with the bolt guns and AR10. Iron sights Im already shooting 3-4 moa. I want the 308 because Im used to that and bigger. Nothing against the 5.56, but it really is just a glorified 22. Just the be a jerk. I like that FAL, I would prefer a folding stock and probably a cheap red dot at most. Im not looking to be great with any other guns besides my Remingtons and Armalite.
 
#28
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a mod that adds FAL's, G3's, AR-10s/15's, SVD's and AK's to Fallout 3 if that means anything to you. </div></div>

Dude! That is awesome! I'm assuming that's for the PC version, though?
 
#29
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoatHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand with the muscle memory. But, I have not been in the service and issued an AR15 type or M14. So the only muscle memory I really have is my bolt guns. The AR10 is still new. I wanted a cheap, reliable semi 308 for hitting man sized targets out to 300. 2MOA is actually more than what I am after. I got the precision with the bolt guns and AR10. Iron sights Im already shooting 3-4 moa. I want the 308 because Im used to that and bigger. Nothing against the 5.56, but it really is just a glorified 22. Just the be a jerk. I like that FAL, I would prefer a folding stock and probably a cheap red dot at most. Im not looking to be great with any other guns besides my Remingtons and Armalite. </div></div>

You know, .308 WIN is just a glorified 7.62 Tokarev
 
#30
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

About the G3, where can I get one or parts to build one? Whats the difference between the G3 and HK91? Is the PTR91 a worthy investment? About the SOCOMs, I love them but they are pricey. How much do you need to change on a standard M1A to convert it to SOCOM style? Thats a reassuring story about Mousie. Makes the M1A more of a choice. I like keeping things American too. Even though DSA FALS are American, is not by design.
 
#33
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">g3's are clunky battleaxes. short fal would be my goto for urban, id go m1a for long or maybe ar-10 but they seem less balanced to me than m1a. all this stuff is really more or less operator preferance. imho </div></div>



Clunky and it works...
I have both a FAL Para with the AR15 adjustable sights lower receiver and a PTR-91 / HK clone. The HK has a much better layout if you intend to mount optics. The Hensoldt scope and claw mount fit on my PTR-91 rifle better than my HK91.
For a carry and shoot rifle the Para is my pick for a carry rifle. If I am going to do distance the HK/PTR with good optics and bipod would be my choice.
 
#34
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

Just the barrel and the gas lock. Another option is to cut the barrel down (a little over 17") and thread it right in front of the gas lock on a normal m1a/m14. Shorter than a scout and more universal than a socom for parts. If you haven't had a chance yet check out m14tfl.com. You'll have a few months worth of info to read through before you could even come up with a question to post! The place is overflowing with knowledge about the m14! Truly a great forum as well. New PTR91's and G3 variants are going for around the $1k mark and used ones for less. FAL type rifles and there variants are around the same price as an M14. The Socom 16 is $1300-$1500. The price on an M14 series rifle isn't as bad as people make it out to be unless you start getting into some seriously high end components like an LRB receiver in a loaded JAE stock with all USGI parts. You don't need all of that from the sounds of it. A good SAI rifle with a few tweaks should be more than great. The biggest thing is that the M14 series rifle has many parts that need to be fitted properly and SAI hasn't been doing that (due to there mass production mentality). It's easy to do the fitting yourself and doesn't cost much at all. By properly fitting and breaking in a new SAI rifle after getting it you can really cut down the group size and increase reliability. Many of the non USGI parts that people have had break where because of excessive stress from improper fit and finish. A good M1A will give you way better accuracy than a FAL or G3, better ergonomics than a G3 and only slightly less reliability. They all come close to AK reliability and have good accuracy. I think the M14 gives the perfect balance between the G3's reliability and the FAL's ergonomics while delivering better accuracy than both. FAL or M14 will both make you happy but since you want it to be more American then I'd have to recommend the M14 1000%.
 
#36
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

Thanks for all the info. Its hard to choose. Im thinking between the G3 and M14. Just gonna be which one I can find a better deal on. Im kind of skeptic about the pawn shop. I gotta find out more info about the gun, its got a chewed up wood stock. Some of the action parts have a little spot rust. Its a fixer upper for sure. Just not sure if its worth the effort. Thanks again guys.
 
#39
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

Hahaha, understandable. There's also an M1A Loaded for sale for a real decent price floating around here. Really tempted myself... Too bad deer season is coming around the corner, and I have to save my money for that.
smirk.gif
 
#40
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoatHead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was interested in the M1A, because I have found one beat the hell up at a pawn shop for 800$. </div></div>

Is it a Norinco or Poly Tech?
 
#41
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

I've seen this topic come up quite a lot on various forums. I don't think anybody has ever really stated something sort of obvious in their answer.

If the heart and soul of any semiauto system is it's magazine, and you're talking MBR, shouldn't it have a battle proven magazine? At this moment that means FAL, M14, and KAC/DPMS, doesn't it? Someone could comment on the G3s use.

In another thread I happened to mention that if you go Armalite for .308 you currently only have their mags available. This wasn't a slight to Armalite, but they are a single source at the moment. Maybe somebody who knows could comment on whether their equipment has been involved in SW Asia.
 
#42
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

While I would say HK91, for the price you are after, with the accuracy you stated, you should seriously consider the PTR91 or the SOCOM16/SOCOMII. Both will hold minute of man and chug along all day with no sign of wear. Both will eat surplus ammo, you can easily find parts for both, and mags are plentiful. Mags will be more expensive for an M1A, but 44mag.com has CMI mags(USGI) for 22-25 bucks a pop. Not bad considering. Extra mags for the PTR go for 97 cents to whatever people can get for them. More info can be found on the PTR91 on the hkpro forum under the 'clones' section.
 
#45
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
M110CwLeupold1-8.jpg


SubMoa, suppressor reliable in excess of 2k without cleaning...
Just saying
wink.gif
</div></div>

That's badass...
 
#47
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 16.25" SOCOM M1A is not a bad option especially with SEI's muzzle device kit and its thousands less than a KAC
wink.gif
</div></div>

If you like legacy systems then go for it
cool.gif
</div></div>

Both the 7.62 mm AR-10 and 7.62 mm M-14 are American legacy systems.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The AR-10 is an American 7.62 mm rifle developed by Eugene Stoner in the
<span style="text-decoration: underline">late 1950s</span> at ArmaLite, then a division of the Fairchild Aircraft Corporation.</div></div>


IMG_3231.jpg



.
 
#49
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

Likewise.. the enhanced and modernized M-14s (MK14 Mod 0, MK14 Mod 1, MK14 SEI, TACOM M14EBR-RI, M39 EMR) are not like the guns of old.
 
#50
Re: .308 Battle Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Likewise.. the enhanced and modernized M-14s (MK14 Mod 0, MK14 Mod 1, MK14 SEI, TACOM M14EBR-RI, M39 EMR) are not like the guns of old. </div></div>

Just trying to understand this...

Are you saying a modern $5,000 M1A/M14 style rifle is as accurate, reliable, and ergonomic as a $5,000 KAC SR25 EMC? I don't know much about M1As/equivalents and would like to learn more.

Thanks.
 
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