.308 Semi Advice For a Noob

[sqidd]

<span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Hey all, new to “distance” shooting here. I do a “fun” amount of USPSA pistol shoots and do pretty well. I’ve screwed around at 100m with my AR’s. But I have NEVER done any shooting out at distance and it is a skill I would like to develop.

I know all the arguments for a bolt gun, and agree with all of them. That being said I want my first gun for shooting at distance to also be able to double as a “battle rifle”. And I would have to drive pretty far to find a range more than 300m so a semi is plenty capable. So I’m pretty much dead set on a AR pattern .308 for right now. Maybe there will be something like a .338 Bolt gun in my future.

So I have been looking around at the .308 semi’s available and on my short list are:

LMT
POF
Armalite SASS

I’m leaning toward the LMT because of the interchangeable barrel system, the monolithic upper and that if its good enough for the Brits, its probably good. I’ve been able to handle one at my local dealer but all he has is the 16.5” model on the wall.

And this is where I can’t seem to get a straight answer. And that is barrel length. The dealer says that it comes in 18” and he thinks 20”, but I can’t find them listed on LMT’s site. Anyone know if there is a 18” and/or a 20” version available?

Then comes the other half of the barrel question that I can’t seem to get good consistent data on. How long do I go? I would think 20” but I am being told here and there that there is almost no appreciable drop in effective range/accuracy going down to a 18” barrel or even a 16.5” one. I have to figure at some point the performance drops off. I would rather err on the side of more range/better ballistics but without some good first hand data I don’t know where that line is. What is the consensus on barrel length for a .308? What are you loosing/gaining between a 16.5-20” barrel? Like I said above for the most part I will be shooting at 300m. But if I get the chance to take it with my out to my Dads in AZ for example where he has a 1000m range near his house I would like to give something like that a shot (pun intended) too.

So to wrap up, some advice on a .308 semi in the $2500-2900 range would be great.

And some opinions on performance as it is tied to barrel length would be fantastic.

Thanks a lot!</span>

 

[cooper_257]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

If you want the best, get a GAP-10
18" or 20" barrel gives good velocity.
I am getting 2600fps with my GAP-10 with a 20" barrel, 175smk, Winchester brass, and 44.5gr varget

 

[KillShot]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sqidd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Hey all, new to “distance” shooting here. I do a “fun” amount of USPSA pistol shoots and do pretty well. I’ve screwed around at 100m with my AR’s. But I have NEVER done any shooting out at distance and it is a skill I would like to develop.

I know all the arguments for a bolt gun, and agree with all of them. That being said I want my first gun for shooting at distance to also be able to double as a “battle rifle”. And I would have to drive pretty far to find a range more than 300m so a semi is plenty capable. So I’m pretty much dead set on a AR pattern .308 for right now. Maybe there will be something like a .338 Bolt gun in my future.

So I have been looking around at the .308 semi’s available and on my short list are:

LMT
POF
Armalite SASS

I’m leaning toward the LMT because of the interchangeable barrel system, the monolithic upper and that if its good enough for the Brits, its probably good. I’ve been able to handle one at my local dealer but all he has is the 16.5” model on the wall.

And this is where I can’t seem to get a straight answer. And that is barrel length. The dealer says that it comes in 18” and he thinks 20”, but I can’t find them listed on LMT’s site. Anyone know if there is a 18” and/or a 20” version available?

Then comes the other half of the barrel question that I can’t seem to get good consistent data on. How long do I go? I would think 20” but I am being told here and there that there is almost no appreciable drop in effective range/accuracy going down to a 18” barrel or even a 16.5” one. I have to figure at some point the performance drops off. I would rather err on the side of more range/better ballistics but without some good first hand data I don’t know where that line is. What is the consensus on barrel length for a .308? What are you loosing/gaining between a 16.5-20” barrel? Like I said above for the most part I will be shooting at 300m. But if I get the chance to take it with my out to my Dads in AZ for example where he has a 1000m range near his house I would like to give something like that a shot (pun intended) too.

So to wrap up, some advice on a .308 semi in the $2500-2900 range would be great.

And some opinions on performance as it is tied to barrel length would be fantastic.

Thanks a lot!</span> </div></div>


LMT and Armalite are DI (direct impingement) whereas POF is gas piston operated, does it matter one way or the other to you? I agree with what <span style="font-weight: bold">cooper_257</span> said, you should definitely take a look at what GAP has to offer.

LMT makes a great rifle, from what I've seen and read, but why do you really want or need an interchangeable barrel system? I mean, do you really plan to lug around another barrel or two in your SHTF bag? For a semi-auto platform in 7.62, you're much better off with going the 20" route when it comes to selecting a barrel length. Furthermore, the 7.62 cartridge will get you to 1000yds and beyond but realistically, you need something larger unless you're only planning on punching paper or shooting steel.

 

[excess]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Not that this matters, but I have a similar background as you, spending more time as a USPSA shooter than anything else. I too wanted a 308 pattern AR, and have a budget similar to yours, assuming your less than $3000 figure is without optics. I bought a 308 GAP-10 with an 18.5" barrel, and I love it. I am still very much learning how to shoot it, but it's clear it's an excellent rifle. You don't have the barrel interchangability that the LMT does, but for ~$1500 GAP will build you an additional upper to go with it. This way, down the road, you could change barrel length and/or caliber. That's my vote.

 

[armydog]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Being as you live in Michigan i'll tell you what you want to know, you want the Armalite, I have one very happy with it and I live in Michigan, Enough said, i'll be home in a month so stop over and we'll go shooting.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

LMT and Armalite are DI (direct impingement) whereas POF is gas piston operated, does it matter one way or the other to you?</div></div>

I’ve debated with myself between the two systems and have come up close to a draw. If anything I lean slightly to the piston guns because I am a tecno-weenie and I love that kind of stuff. But when it comes to the actual operation I have had zero issues with my 5.56 AR’s (gas impingement). At one point put 1500+ rounds of every kind of laying around through one of my M&P15’s, no stoppages, no failures of any kind. It was filthy, but it kept on going bang.

That being said a piston gun would not break my heart.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with what <span style="font-weight: bold">cooper_257</span> said, you should definitely take a look at what GAP has to offer.</div></div>
I had never heard of the GAP before. I just checked out their site. Nice stuff. I like that they use the POF upper and lower. Add that to the list.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT makes a great rifle, from what I've seen and read, but why do you really want or need an interchangeable barrel system? I mean, do you really plan to lug around another barrel or two in your SHTF bag?</div></div>
I’m not married to the interchangeable barrel system at all. And I would probably never do it. I was just thinking that for the same price point it’s a cool option. I like options.

And you are correct, I would never have an extra barrel in my BOB. Much better stuff to have than an extra barrel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For a semi-auto platform in 7.62, you're much better off with going the 20" route when it comes to selecting a barrel length. Furthermore, the 7.62 cartridge will get you to 1000yds and beyond</div></div>
I was leaning toward 20”. The extra inches aren’t going to bother me a bit. It’s not like I would be clearing rooms with it (well most likely not). That’s what a AR15 with a 10” barrel is for. So 20” it is.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but realistically, you need something larger unless you're only planning on punching paper or shooting steel.</div></div>
Out of curiosity what kind of range would you be able to eliminate a threat without armor?

I would love to get something larger, a 50BMG sounds like fun to me!

But at this point need something that can pull “double-duty” and from what I have come across the .308 seems like it can get a whole lot of jobs done. I’m kinda looking for the “Swiss Army Knife” of rifle for a post SHTF world. Do you think the .308 is the way to fill that role? Maybe I have been going in the wrong direction.

BTW, your POF is super nice. Something like that sure wouldn't hurt me feelings.

Thanks guys!

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not that this matters, but I have a similar background as you, spending more time as a USPSA shooter than anything else. I too wanted a 308 pattern AR, and have a budget similar to yours, assuming your less than $3000 figure is without optics. I bought a 308 GAP-10 with an 18.5" barrel, and I love it. I am still very much learning how to shoot it, but it's clear it's an excellent rifle. You don't have the barrel interchangability that the LMT does, but for ~$1500 GAP will build you an additional upper to go with it. This way, down the road, you could change barrel length and/or caliber. That's my vote. </div></div>

Sounds like we are in exactly the same boat. I’m sure you being happy would translate into me being happy also.

This is for everyone. If the GAP is using the POF upper and lower what is the advantage of the GAP? Looks to me the only appreciable change is the stock. I ask because I have a POF dealer that I work with about 15min from me. When possible I like to send my business his way.

Thanks

 

[excess]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Differences:
1) The GAP is direct impingement, whereas the POF is piston. GAP explains that they switched to DI because it is inherently more accurate than a piston system
2) The GAP has a Bartlein barrel. In the opinion of many, this is the highest quality barrel you can get, though opinions do vary.
3) The GAP is hand built by a small group of people (and mostly by one guy called Flounder). This group only does precision rifle work, but they know their stuff.
4) Customer service - if your GAP is not right, it will be fixed QUICKLY. But it will probably be right from the get go.

To me those are the big differences.

 

[BCP]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

If there's a POF dealer who stocks them next door to you & he likes to make deals then there you go. A 16" barrel won't be a handicap in the accuracy or velocity departments. My buddy's 16" POF had higher velocities than my 18" DPMS barrel with the same ammunition.

GAP will build you a nice rifle if you're willing to bypass your "good buddy" local dealer's stock and be on a waiting list for a few months.

"A threat without armor" = WUT

 

[lessthanfour]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

my advice would be get a bolt action to learn on and get a semiauto in the future. with a 2500 dollar budget you could get a sako with a leopold scope. but if your dead set on a semi get a gap, 1/2 moa guaranteed so you cant go wrong

 

[excess]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

actually 3/4 MOA on the GAP-10, they they say that is really shooter limited, not equipment limited.

 

[Speeddog]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sqidd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Hey all, new to “distance” shooting here. I do a “fun” amount of USPSA pistol shoots and do pretty well. I’ve screwed around at 100m with my AR’s. But I have NEVER done any shooting out at distance and it is a skill I would like to develop.

I know all the arguments for a bolt gun, and agree with all of them. That being said I want my first gun for shooting at distance to also be able to double as a “battle rifle”. And I would have to drive pretty far to find a range more than 300m so a semi is plenty capable. So I’m pretty much dead set on a AR pattern .308 for right now. Maybe there will be something like a .338 Bolt gun in my future.

So I have been looking around at the .308 semi’s available and on my short list are:

LMT
POF
Armalite SASS

I’m leaning toward the LMT because of the interchangeable barrel system, the monolithic upper and that if its good enough for the Brits, its probably good. I’ve been able to handle one at my local dealer but all he has is the 16.5” model on the wall.

And this is where I can’t seem to get a straight answer. And that is barrel length. The dealer says that it comes in 18” and he thinks 20”, but I can’t find them listed on LMT’s site. Anyone know if there is a 18” and/or a 20” version available?

Then comes the other half of the barrel question that I can’t seem to get good consistent data on. How long do I go? I would think 20” but I am being told here and there that there is almost no appreciable drop in effective range/accuracy going down to a 18” barrel or even a 16.5” one. I have to figure at some point the performance drops off. I would rather err on the side of more range/better ballistics but without some good first hand data I don’t know where that line is. What is the consensus on barrel length for a .308? What are you loosing/gaining between a 16.5-20” barrel? Like I said above for the most part I will be shooting at 300m. But if I get the chance to take it with my out to my Dads in AZ for example where he has a 1000m range near his house I would like to give something like that a shot (pun intended) too.

So to wrap up, some advice on a .308 semi in the $2500-2900 range would be great.

And some opinions on performance as it is tied to barrel length would be fantastic.

Thanks a lot!</span> </div></div>

Another option for you, though not as popular on this board. Take a look at the Les Baer Monolith .308. All major components are machined by Les and build quality is fabulous. You can get a variety of barrel lengths, add a brake if you want, and it'll be ready for you in 4-6wks.

I'm shooting an 18" with his integral brake (have a busted shoulder) scoped with an NSX 5.5X22X50. The rifle is a sub .5MOA shooter (with the right ammo) and an absolute pleasure to shoot. With a different scope or even a red dot this would make a great battle rifle.

If you go this route consider a different bipod (Atlas, GGG). That would be about all I'd change (and did).

Best of luck with your choice

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"A threat without armor" = WUT </div></div>

What does WUT mean?

I'm not hip.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lessthanfour</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my advice would be get a bolt action to learn on and get a semiauto in the future. with a 2500 dollar budget you could get a sako with a leopold scope. but if your dead set on a semi get a gap, 1/2 moa guaranteed so you cant go wrong </div></div>
I’m diggin’ what your plantin’. I have been back and forth about this very decision for at least a year. And in the end I decided for one of each. A semi and a bolt. But first on the list is something that can double as a “battle rifle”. I’m no survivalist on the extreme sense but I do have a few contingency plans in case the SHTF and if I need to hump out of the area on foot to my not terribly well prepped (at this point) BOL I would be at a minimum with my wife. Me humping a .308 semi “battle rifle” with some range and my H&K 45 Tactical, my wife with one of the M&P15’s and her M&P9. That being said if I stay put or once I get to the BOL I would like to have a good bolt gun that could be used as “artillery” or for hunting. I’d probably go with something bigger than a .308 for that though. If I have to defend my BOL I want something that has more range than someone who wants what I have (food, shelter, women, etc). Everyone and their brother has a .308. a .338 or a 50BMG on the other hand would allow me to stay well out of most “bad guys” range.

Yes I know I am over thinking and over paranoid. But I like cool guns like the 50BMG anyway, no matter how ridiculous and stupid. I have a 800rwhp street car that still has A/C and will do 200mph on pump fuel. Clearly my decision making skills are a bit skewed toward “stupid”.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Differences:
1) The GAP is direct impingement, whereas the POF is piston. GAP explains that they switched to DI because it is inherently more accurate than a piston system
2) The GAP has a Bartlein barrel. In the opinion of many, this is the highest quality barrel you can get, though opinions do vary.
3) The GAP is hand built by a small group of people (and mostly by one guy called Flounder). This group only does precision rifle work, but they know their stuff.
4) Customer service - if your GAP is not right, it will be fixed QUICKLY. But it will probably be right from the get go.

To me those are the big differences. </div></div>

Great info, thanks.

I put an email into GAP to see if they had any dealers in my area. But it looks like they are not set up that way.

Looks like at this point I am down to the GAP or the POF with a 20" barrel. After I talk to GAP I'll have to weigh my options. Its a tough call. The shop I use even has a 20" POF on the wall right now. It's never easy, I drive myself crazy with this stuff. The good news is that it looks like no matter what I do between those two choices I can't go wrong.

Thanks again

 

[Hawk45]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

If you are only shooting to 300yds max and mostly 100yds, why not a precision .223 AR? Heck it'll get ya to 600yds as easy as the .308. But if you are set on the .308, then by all means buy and enjoy. I would't put the SHTF factor too high on the list when looking at needs of your system.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are only shooting to 300yds max and mostly 100yds, why not a precision .223 AR? Heck it'll get ya to 600yds as easy as the .308. But if you are set on the .308, then by all means buy and enjoy. </div></div>
I’m only able to shoot to 300m without a drive. But I do want to be able to shoot out to distances much further than that. I won’t get as many opportunities to do that but I will have them.

And yes, I "want" a .308.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would't put the SHTF factor too high on the list when looking at needs of your system. </div></div>

I'm with ya.

I certainly don’t buy guns based around a SHTF scenario. But I do weigh if the purchase is a positive or negative one in regards to a SHTF situation. For example, you won’t see me buy a gun that is not chambered in a very popular or NATO round. Exotic ammo could render a gun useless real quick post SHTF.

At the end of the day aside from what I <span style="font-style: italic">carry</span> the only time any of my other guns will save my life or put food on the table is in a post SHTF world. There just toys up until that point, which I hope I never have to deal with. I’m happy shooting paper and steel and having trick guns because I think they are cool.

 

[PhrogDriver]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Just out of curiosity, are you planning on getting a muzzle brake? I have a GAP AR-10 (not the GAP 10; I purchased mine before the GAP-10 was out) and originally got it with a 20" barrel and a Badger Thruster brake. I got the muzzle brake because even though it's a .308 and fairly heavy, I reasoned that the recoil reduction would help with rapid fire/follow up shots.

Anyway, I eventually had the barrel cut to 18" and with the same muzzle brake, the gun was noticeably lighter, better balanced, and easier to handle. I don't have exact muzzle velocity data, but I've shot my 18" to 700+ yards with no problems and am sure it will shoot farther.

Bottom line: I think an 18" barrel with a muzzle brake is probably a good compromise between a 20" and 16" barrel.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PhrogDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just out of curiosity, are you planning on getting a muzzle brake? I have a GAP AR-10 (not the GAP 10; I purchased mine before the GAP-10 was out) and originally got it with a 20" barrel and a Badger Thruster brake. I got the muzzle brake because even though it's a .308 and fairly heavy, I reasoned that the recoil reduction would help with rapid fire/follow up shots.

Anyway, I eventually had the barrel cut to 18" and with the same muzzle brake, the gun was noticeably lighter, better balanced, and easier to handle. I don't have exact muzzle velocity data, but I've shot my 18" to 700+ yards with no problems and am sure it will shoot farther.

Bottom line: I think an 18" barrel with a muzzle brake is probably a good compromise between a 20" and 16" barrel. </div></div>

I haven’t planned that far ahead yet, LOL. I did stop by the gun shop this evening to make sure that they had a POF with a 20” barrel on the wall (I was looking at so many the other day I couldn’t remember what was what). They did. And I noticed no muzzle break. I figured I would solve that when I shop for all of the support stuff (optics, ammo, mags, bi-pod, etc). Interesting observation though. I will consider that. I’m definitely going with the 20” POF. They have 2 in stock and they are still at last years prices ($400 less than the list price on POF’s site). My best friend is a master machinist and gunsmith so if I want to cut it down its easy and free.

Thanks for the input.

I’m going in Monday to pick up the rifle. Then I get to start asking a million questions regarding support gear. Get ready!

 

[mkollman74]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

People here love GAP. Never shot one, but i have no reason to believe that all these folks are wrong. I have shot a Larue OBR, and I can tell you that it is a mighty fine AR-based .308 Accurate and reliable. Just another option to consider.

 

[adam1122]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Sounds like you are going to blow your budget before you even out optics on it. You haven't mentioned eotech or any red dot so I expect you will be shooting past 600.


Unless your competition shooting, IMO I would suggest armalite and top it off with a night force scope or a trijicon scope. Just make sure you get the heavy barrel.....further you want to shoot,,,,,longer the barrel should be.

You can't go wrong with an any of anyone else's suggestions. This is a modular rifle...you can make all kinds changes to this thing and have multiple rifles on one base rig.

Good luck.

Good luck.

 

[excess]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Can you hit a playing card at 1000 yards with an Armalite and Eotech?

 

[DavidAR10]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

I've drank the ARMALITE AR-10 kewl-aid in 1999. I have gone through 7 rifles/uppers and to date have three AR-10s.
1) AR-10T 24" bought in 1999
2) AR-10A4 20" 4th of July Sale 2010
3) AR-10T 20" Christmas Sale 2010

We put men on the moon in '69 with slide rules. In 2011, getting a chrome-lined barrel that shoots sub MOA is very easy. Especially when ARMALITE is chosen. I usually recommend the AR-10A4 to newbs because it is inexpensive and it has a history of accuracy that shames the SA NM M1A right out of the box. But, today...

1) For @ $120 more than the AR-10A4, go with the AR-10T for $899 plus S&H from 762 SASS. That gives you a very nice SS barrel that is free floated and piss on any break-in proceedures. I'm partial to green furniture.

http://www.762sass.com/product.php?p=321&cid=1&session=3b58462bdf736df0935ccf59031fda03

2) grab an ARMALITE stripped lower for $205 along with a LPK without trigger for $60 and a Geissele SSA or SSA-E trigger $170-$200.

3) Stock is up to you. Standard AR-10A2 stock kit is $70. Magpul UBR is anywhere from $200-$250 and requires one of Slash's Heavy Buffers and modified AR-10 buffer spring. Magpul PRS runs $195-$245 and must be AR-10 specific.

@ $1500 gets you a complete rifle leaving $1500 for glass.
When you start to exceed your barrel's performance, get GAP to put a Bartlein on it.

Best to you.

BTW, the first AR-10A4 was sub-0.75" all day. The second was sub-0.5" all day with an AIMPOINT 5000 2X 1.5MOA with knees in the dirt, a Dodge 1500 tailgate for a bench and a MTM gun cradle for a rest. It was hand built by Richard Clancy of ARMALITE.

So, can I hit a playing card at 1000 yards with an Armalite and <span style="text-decoration: line-through">EOTECH</span> an AIMPOINT?
No, CNC, but I bet if you stood at 1K, I could make you hate life. ;^ )

We used to shoot like this, but my new truck's gate is way too high. We're building a portable bench.

My brother, Louis {the guy that taught me how to shoot after being trained at Damn Neck Rifle Range as a Sea Cadet, decades ago} just shot 5/8" groups with my latest AR-10A4 and a fashion coordinated Burris 3-9x40 Fullfield II Tactical. ARMALITE makes nice chrome-lined barrels.

'scuse me while I take another sip of ARMALITE kewl-aid.

BTW II, 20" 10T has a new NF 5.5-22x50 and the 24" 10T is going to receive the SS 5-20x50HD from the SH Group Buy. Ordered 31MAY11.

 

[deersniper]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Id get a POF. For 300 yards, I would get a 223:myPOfs shoot around .6inch at 100 yards for 5 shot groups.

And get the online training. It will help you a lot and it isworth a lot morethan they charge.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

As a noob; I think I'd be keeping close to the KISS principle. I'd start with something more on the basic and reliable side, and stay away from the more extreme specialties and add-ons until I had some more experience under my belt to make my choices with.

Looking around, this gets my attention first.

Greg

 

[deersniper]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

And I would get a 20 tube ona 308and 16 on a 223

 

[Sulenski]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Well if the recoil impulse is an issue go with the GAP-10 all the way then, but if not either the POF P308 or the new GAP-10 would be your best bet.

Both systems are well built around a great barrel. They both cost around the same price.

Armalite has been around for a long long time and their setups are tried and true. Pretty much any model .308 they make can be had for well under the 2.5k mark. With the savings in cost you can buy a case of ammo and maybe even have enough left over to take it to a range class to get some good mechanics down etc.

The LMT set up is nice if your into shooting multiple types of ammunition of similar calibers. Its a great idea for shooting at the range but swapping out barrels for a different type of ammo for anything else but the range doesnt seem to make sense. Sure you get to shoot more types of ammo but you have to have the barrels to boot. Its just easier to have one barrel and one type of ammo.

 

[DP425]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Where in Michigan? I run an OBR and you're welcome to finger fuck it if you want- would at least give you an idea of what an AR style .308 w 20" barrel will feel like.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

You know what the problem is? There are too many good choices (is that really a problem?). I’m sure to one degree or another that everyone’s advice/favorite rifle is right. I can’t imagine any of them are bad. In fact I can guarantee that all of them are better than I am!

I appreciate everyone’s advice and insight. I’m going to have to process all of this today/tonight and see what I come up with. On one hand I love the idea of a $1500 rifle. And on the other my buying habits for everything lean toward to overkill. I don’t have a ton of stuff/toys. But what I have is top notch and has always treated me well.

Thanks guys!

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where in Michigan? I run an OBR and you're welcome to finger fuck it if you want- would at least give you an idea of what an AR style .308 w 20" barrel will feel like. </div></div>

Thanks for the offer!

But if I don't pull the trigger (pun intended) on a rifle in the morning I am likely to talk myself out of it.

 

[Daps!]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

No Mention of the OBR?

 

[jevoe]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

I vote POF - where do you shoot 300 yards in MI?

 

[HKinAK]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

I vote Armalite

Armalite AR-10 SASS with IOR 3.5 - 18 scope
Armalite AR-10 16-inch patrol with USO SN-4 1.5-6

Both equipped with yankee hill QD mount.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AutoXer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote POF - where do you shoot 300 yards in MI? </div></div>
Washtinaw County Gun Club. 3mi from my house.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AutoXer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote POF - where do you shoot 300 yards in MI? </div></div>

Correction on my part. They have a 600m range!

 

[BigDTexas68]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Not to muddy the waters even more but...... I just picked up a PWS MK 216 (long stroke piston). Only have 80 rounds down range but so far I am impressed. Shooting steel out to 700yrds with surplus ammo. Its advertised as a battle rifle but still is moa or better at distance. All the other weapons mentioned so far are all good rifles. Just do your research and get what is right for you.

 

[DMack]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

I hear you on having nice toys... I tend to be a bit unorthodox myself.

I'm doing a long term thread on the PWS MK214 as seen below. It's a very soft shooting 7.62x51 platform, that I am using outside of it's intended scope. But, these rifles are very accurate, and very VERY easy to shoot. Best of luck with your choice... being an educated consumer can be confusing at times with all of the great choices out there.

 

[DavidAR10]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sqidd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where in Michigan? I run an OBR and you're welcome to finger fuck it if you want- would at least give you an idea of what an AR style .308 w 20" barrel will feel like. </div></div>

Thanks for the offer!

But if I don't pull the trigger (pun intended) on a rifle in the morning I am likely to talk myself out of it.

</div></div>

It's teh 26th... WHAT YA GETCHA?

 

[Valyndiir]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

I am in the same boat. Been shooting a RRA LAR-8, which turned out to be a blast, but I want to upgrade as well. I am surprised no one mentioned the Sig 308 as it is one of the other piston-driven platforms out there. My vote is for POF or the GAP-10. Theoretically the GAP-10 should be more accurate at long ranges, but POF also seems to have an edge on everyone with their innovations and I betcha' they are actually pretty equal in accuracy. I would like to see a S/A pro shoot them side by side and see which does better. I like the fact that maintenance on the POF is minimal, as I hate having to clean my DI gun after 2-300 rounds.

 

[Huskyfever03]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

I too was in the same boat. I purchased an LMT a month or so ago and finally got around to shooting it last weekend. I was new to .308, and had never shot beyond 50yards. I shot much better than I thought I would have. Stock 16" cl barrel, swfa 3-9x42 shooting FGMM 168@ 100 yards

Only put 18 rds through it sighting in before I had to run.

 

[BCP]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valyndiir</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hate having to clean my DI gun after 2-300 rounds. </div></div>

How is maintenance on the POF minimal? And what sort of cleaning are you talking about? All I ever do is run a few patches down the barrel and wipe the bolt off, then oil it up and away I go...

 

[BCP]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daps!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No Mention of the OBR?
</div></div>

2-3 people already recommended it.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Well, as usual I drove myself insane. The .308’s on the market are so good in the $2500 range that it really is tough picking one. Over the weekend I had it narrowed down to either POF or LMT with a 16” barrel. I have a 600m range down the street and that is probably the furthest it will ever get shot. And from what I drudged up through searches both the POF and the LMT are both fantastic out to 600m and even as far as 800m if I ever wanted to stretch it that far.

So I went down to the shop this morning and figured I would take a look and see what I thought when I got there. Only issue was that they only had POF’s in 20”. Not the end of the world obviously, but that backed me up a bit in regards to what I wanted. Lucky for me it’s a good shop and the guy helping me did a lot of distance shooting with a .308 (he has a REAPER) and had a lot of very good input and was able to answer all of my questions. After handling both guns, taking them down pretty far to get a look at how they were machined, etc I was stuck. The guy helping me asked if I wanted to see the other POF he had in back with the silver receivers (the one on the wall was black) and I figured sure, couldn’t hurt. He went and got it out of the back. So there I am looking at it thinking that the silver was pretty cool and he is typing on his terminal. He says to me, “That is my oldest one and the prices have gone up quite a bit since I got that in. I can sell you that one for $2260”. And as an added bonus it had a Voltor Emod stock on it (the others had the Modstock I think its called). I’m not planning on running the Emod on it for long but I have that stock on one of my 5.56 AR’s and love it. I can put the one off of the POF on my other 5.56 AR effectively for “free” now, BONUS! So that sealed the deal. I couldn’t beat the price, its obviously a fantastic rifle (they all are) and the silver is pretty cool. And a few days ago I called POF to see if there were any changes over the last few years in regards to specs and there weren’t except some small changes to the rail. So getting the “older” rifle was no sacrifice. If in the long run I want a shorter barrel I can always do that.

Now its time to shop for some glass! I’m sure to loose my mind doing that. I’m going to a friends tonight to look through some different power scopes he has on his rifles to get started. I have never owned an optic that had any magnification (all have been red dots) and only once have I ever fired anything with magnification and that was a 3x ACOG.

The guy behind the counter recommended a lot of glass to look at but said that for what I am doing with it (50-600m) that he thinks something like the Valdada 2.5-10 would work pretty well for me. I’m going to take a look at that (those) and what Leapold Tactical and Nightforce have to offer.

I need to get this bad boy geared up so I can get out and run some ammo through the tube. Then I’m going to have to learn how to shoot it too. I look forward to the challenge.

Again, thanks for all of your good advice. I’m not sure if any of it made making a decision easier, LOL! But it sure made my decision more well informed.

Thanks again!

 

[AbsoluteDiesel]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

I too, am in the same boat and am looking forward to seeing what you decided on and hearing about it!

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AbsoluteDiesel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I too, am in the same boat and am looking forward to seeing what you decided on and hearing about it! </div></div>

Look up

 

[KillShot]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

Squidd,

The "silver" finish is called the NP3 coating. It's a combination of nickel and Teflon. In my opinion, it's a much better coating than the standard black and it's definitely the more attractive of the two. Click the following link for images of my own. It may give you some ideas for your rifle.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=2524191#comments


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valyndiir</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am in the same boat. Been shooting a RRA LAR-8, which turned out to be a blast, but I want to upgrade as well. <span style="font-weight: bold">I am surprised no one mentioned the Sig 308 as it is one of the other piston-driven platforms out there. My vote is for POF or the GAP-10. Theoretically the GAP-10 should be more accurate at long ranges, but POF also seems to have an edge on everyone with their innovations and I betcha' they are actually pretty equal in accuracy.</span> I would like to see a S/A pro shoot them side by side and see which does better. I like the fact that maintenance on the POF is minimal, as I hate having to clean my DI gun after 2-300 rounds.</div></div>

I have handled the Sig 5.56 as well as the .308 and both of them are ugly and cumbersome, leaving much to be desired.

Lowlight owns both the POF P308 and the new GAP-10 and from what he said, they are both sub-MOA shooters.

 

[Valyndiir]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valyndiir</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hate having to clean my DI gun after 2-300 rounds. </div></div>

How is maintenance on the POF minimal? And what sort of cleaning are you talking about? All I ever do is run a few patches down the barrel and wipe the bolt off, then oil it up and away I go... </div></div>

Maybe I'm just being OCD on keeping my gun clean, but POF claims you don't have to clean the BCG and requires no lube. Not to mention piston systems run cooler and wear less on the BCG. May just be my inexperience and fascination with gadgets.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have handled the Sig 5.56 as well as the .308 and both of them are ugly and cumbersome, leaving much to be desired.

Lowlight owns both the POF P308 and the new GAP-10 and from what he said, they are both sub-MOA shooters. </div></div>

Good to know about the Sig. I remember Lowlight mentioning he had a high opinion of the POF with its ability to remain consistent. It gave my research some direction.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Squidd,

The "silver" finish is called the NP3 coating. It's a combination of nickel and Teflon.</div></div>
Nice, I love that sort of stuff! I used to be a “practicing” motorsport suspension engineer. Were all about coatings. I remember when the POF’s first got some press one of the things that drew me to them was the coatings technology. And speaking of coatings technology I was planning on sending you a PM about cleaning/lube and what you suggested. You clearly know what you’re doing. Busy day though, maybe I’ll get a chance to put something together later.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Click the following link for images of my own. It may give you some ideas for your rifle.
</div></div>
That’s what I needed, more pics, LOL! Yesterday I was staring at the pic in your sig thinking how trick yours is and did searches on all of your gear. Wow, nice stuff! It wouldn’t break my heart a bit to have a “KillShot Replica”.

 

[sqidd]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valyndiir</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Maybe I'm just being OCD on keeping my gun clean, but POF claims you don't have to clean the BCG and requires no lube. Not to mention piston systems run cooler and wear less on the BCG. May just be my inexperience and fascination with gadgets.
</div></div>
I'm a bit OCD myself. I'm going to see what KillShot thinks about cleaning/lube. My OCD brain will want to clean it every time I shoot it and then lube it to death!

 

[jevoe]

Re: .308 Semi Advice For a Noob

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sqidd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valyndiir</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Maybe I'm just being OCD on keeping my gun clean, but POF claims you don't have to clean the BCG and requires no lube. Not to mention piston systems run cooler and wear less on the BCG. May just be my inexperience and fascination with gadgets.
</div></div>
I'm a bit OCD myself. I'm going to see what KillShot thinks about cleaning/lube. My OCD brain will want to clean it every time I shoot it and then lube it to death! </div></div>

That coating, the barrel and piston system making a cleaning-free operation is why I bought POF. I bought the gun, took it apart and checked everything out visibly, fired a couple test rounds at the Bass Pro Shops rifle range, visual check again, went to the big range the next day and opened it up. I've put over 1000 rounds downrange now without a FTF or any mishap. Letting 20 rounds go as fast as I can pull the trigger barely transfers any heat to the BCG. I've yet to lube it at all, and the extent of my cleaning was on the piston system, all the build up was there and this was after over 500 rounds. The interior of the rifle is still great. They recommend an alcohol based dry delivery of teflon based lube if anything at all, but I haven't even done that yet.

Needless to say, I love my POF rifle. They make an exceptionally reliable product and it consistently delivers sub MOA shots.