308 Tack Driver Gas Gun

[the monk]

Long time lurker here on the hide. I am currently looking for an accurate (easy sub MOA) 308 gas gun.

I was gifted a SCAR 17 a while back and I never fell in love with it. I was able to sell it for a nice chunk of change and I am looking for a replacement.

My use case is a very accurate AR10 that could also roll into a battle rifle role if needed. My initial thoughts were between an SR25 ACC and a Larue PredatOBR 7.62 both in 16". Seems like I may not get the sub moa accuracy I am looking for out of the SR25 and the 3/4-24 threading does not make my life easy with my current selection of suppressors. The PredatOBR seems like a perfect fit but info as of late is hard to find. I have heard some bad things about their recent guns.

Anybody have any info on the recent PredatOBRs in 7.62? Am I missing any other guns? I would like to keep it under 9lb and lighter if possible so I am shying away from LMT.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[1911hombre]

Deja vu.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

I just bought a sr25 CC (formerly ACC) upper with a five shot test target from the factory of .65. I wouldn't rule out kac at all!

 

[Bigjake83]

Long time lurker here on the hide. I am currently looking for an accurate (easy sub MOA) 308 gas gun.

I was gifted a SCAR 17 a while back and I never fell in love with it. I was able to sell it for a nice chunk of change and I am looking for a replacement.

My use case is a very accurate AR10 that could also roll into a battle rifle role if needed. My initial thoughts were between an SR25 ACC and a Larue PredatOBR 7.62 both in 16". Seems like I may not get the sub moa accuracy I am looking for out of the SR25 and the 3/4-24 threading does not make my life easy with my current selection of suppressors. The PredatOBR seems like a perfect fit but info as of late is hard to find. I have heard some bad things about their recent guns.

Anybody have any info on the recent PredatOBRs in 7.62? Am I missing any other guns? I would like to keep it under 9lb and lighter if possible so I am shying away from LMT,

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you're planning on reloading I'd skip the LaRue, that XTRAXN Chamber makes it damn near impossible to reuse the fire formed brass, same as the HK91.

If you're hell bent on buying a LaRue I'd recommend you buy the PredatAR which is the cheapest option, pull the barrel and reserve it for shooting shit ammo and blaster duty. Send your bolt into Craddock Precision or Compass Lake and have them spin you up a true match grade barrel on a Bartlein or Krieger blank, the reason I recommend the PredatAR is because it has the longest handguard and the gas block won't stick out like Dogs Balls.

The Seekins SP10 in .308 is also a solid choice, You can usually find them around $2000 or less.

And of course JP they have various barrel options for the .308 that can help with weight.

 

[Choid]

the reason I recommend the PredatAR is because it has the longest handguard and the gas block won't stick out like Dogs Balls.

My dog's balls hang down, but ymmv. I did as suggested. have a kreiger in a pred.

 

[RUTGERS95]

lmt is what you want and can't fathom how are people ar so obsessed with weight (I don't find them heavy and even my 13yr old can shoot it prone) given no one really humps them around for days on end. That said, 1lb diference doesn't make a difference so pick what is reliable, accurate, and within your budget.

 

[Bigjake83]

My dog's balls hang down, but ymmv. I did as suggested. have a kreiger in a pred.

How's that working for you?

 

[Choid]

He has nice balls, thanks.

j/k. It shoots great. The extension fit was tight tight tight, and took a bit to get fully seated, but it is a shooter.

 

[Tonsofguns]

lmt is what you want and can't fathom how are people ar so obsessed with weight (I don't find them heavy and even my 13yr old can shoot it prone) given no one really humps them around for days on end. That said, 1lb diference doesn't make a difference so pick what is reliable, accurate, and within your budget.

Weight is not just about hiking in the desert with 100 lb packs, but it’s also about how fast you can transition your rifle on different targets. If you are doing all of your shooting prone or bench than I guess it does not matter.

In any case, I am a huge Lmt mws fan but I keep my set ups super heavy to shoot prone with. My scar wears an acog and is meant to be runned and gunned

 

[RUTGERS95]

Weight is not just about hiking in the desert with 100 lb packs, but it’s also about how fast you can transition your rifle on different targets. If you are doing all of your shooting prone or bench than I guess it does not matter.

In any case, I am a huge Lmt mws fan but I keep my set ups super heavy to shoot prone with. My scar wears an acog and is meant to be runned and gunned

I hear you but are really doing that much transitioning with a 308 gas gun or is this just weekend training fantasty talk that we see so many do headspins over? I don't say that like a dik but respectfully. If you are running gunning and transitioning that much, and you may, why not pick up a Aero set build a lighter one and get it to the weight and size you want

 

[Bigjake83]

He has nice balls, thanks.

j/k. It shoots great. The extension fit was tight tight tight, and took a bit to get fully seated, but it is a shooter.

Who did the barrel work for you?

I'm guessing you didn't heat the receiver up before you installed the barrel?

 

[Choid]

Who did the barrel work for you?

I'm guessing you didn't heat the receiver up before you installed the barrel?

This was some years ago, before I knew the Hide. I did heat up the barrel, but I still needed to tap it into place with a rawhide mallet. Not light taps. I got the barrel through Fulton Armory at the time.

 

[smoooth1]

This was some years ago, before I knew the Hide. I did heat up the barrel, but I still needed to tap it into place with a rawhide mallet. Not light taps. I got the barrel through Fulton Armory at the time.

You should have FROZEN the barrel and HEATED the receiver...............

 

[Choid]

You should have FROZEN the barrel and HEATED the receiver...............

At this point, five years later, does it matter? Not being snarky, serious question.

 

[smoooth1]

No. BUT for someone reading who might not know, it's just helpful info

 

[AngryKoala]

If you're planning on reloading I'd skip the LaRue, that XTRAXN Chamber makes it damn near impossible to reuse the fire formed brass, same as the HK91.

If you're hell bent on buying a LaRue I'd recommend you buy the PredatAR which is the cheapest option, pull the barrel and reserve it for shooting shit ammo and blaster duty. Send your bolt into Craddock Precision or Compass Lake and have them spin you up a true match grade barrel on a Bartlein or Krieger blank, the reason I recommend the PredatAR is because it has the longest handguard and the gas block won't stick out like Dogs Balls.

The Seekins SP10 in .308 is also a solid choice, You can usually find them around $2000 or less.

And of course JP they have various barrel options for the .308 that can help with weight.

Isn't the handguard on the predatobr 14.5"? Can't imagine the gas block sticking out on that for a 16".

 

[Bigjake83]

At this point, five years later, does it matter? Not being snarky, serious question.

Yeah you did it backwards, but shit happens and it's how you learn.

 

[Choid]

Oh, I wrote that wrong. I heated the receiver, but I didn't freeze the barrel. Whoops.

 

[Bigjake83]

Isn't the handguard on the predatobr 14.5"? Can't imagine the gas block sticking out on that for a 16".

For the 16" no, just about perfect for the 16.5" rifle length gas Craddock offers. And if you wanted to change things up with a +1 for a 20" 6.5CM you have that option. The +2 still looks like shit on anything under 15"

 

[Ape_Factory]

I'd look at the POF Revolution DI or a VSeven. My POF is definitely (and easily) sub-MOA with good ammunition and damn near close to that with cheap stuff like PMC Bronze. Plus it weighs sub-seven pounds. Why carry around something two pounds heavier? Have your cake and eat it too. The V7 is a few ounces lighter but uses a lot of titanium/magnesium to get there where the POF does not. Plus, it truly is the size of a 5.56 AR and it's been dead reliable and shoots everything without fail.

 

[AngryKoala]

For the 16" no, just about perfect for the 16.5" rifle length gas Craddock offers. And if you wanted to change things up with a +1 for a 20" 6.5CM you have that option. The +2 still looks like shit on anything under 15"

Ah okay, I just purchased one (coin flip between that and JP). Your comment about their barrel is interesting, does it not perform well?

 

[charnicus]

I’d peak over here...

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[BikePilot]

Lots of great options, but I’d start with a JP given your objectives.

 

[Bigjake83]

Ah okay, I just purchased one (coin flip between that and JP). Your comment about their barrel is interesting, does it not perform well?

I can't vouch for the PredatAR and it's slim barrel, but the Heavier barrels seem to do well with FGMM or Blackhills. I actually shoot my guns so paying $27-$30 a box for match .308 is fucking ridiculous.

Call LaRue and ask them how they recommend reloading for your new PredatAR.

 

[AngryKoala]

I can't vouch for the PredatAR and it's slim barrel, but the Heavier barrels seem to do well with FGMM or Blackhills. I actually shoot my guns so paying $27-$30 a box for match .308 is fucking ridiculous.

Call LaRue and ask them how they recommend reloading for your new PredatAR.

I bought the OBR so I should be good to go and I agree %100 about the ammo. I may end up canceling the order though. I'm trying to get them to tell me an ETA with no luck. If its going to be 8-12 months I will probably cancel and go with JP which is at 16 weeks.

 

[Yondering]

... Chamber makes it damn near impossible to reuse the fire formed brass, same as the HK91.

Are you actually speaking from any experience with a 91, or just repeating something you heard? I have reloaded a LOT of brass from those chambers, with no problem at all. Sure, the fluted chambers make little ridges in the brass, but the sizing die fixes that no problem. I was getting 5-6 loads on brass and still going strong. Impossible, LOL.

The real brass problem with those has nothing to do with the chamber, and everything to do with how they eject brass so far that it's easy to lose it. That's why I didn't get more than 6 loads on any of the brass.

 

[Bigjake83]

Are you actually speaking from any experience with a 91, or just repeating something you heard? I have reloaded a LOT of brass from those chambers, with no problem at all. Sure, the fluted chambers make little ridges in the brass, but the sizing die fixes that no problem. I was getting 5-6 loads on brass and still going strong. Impossible, LOL.

The real brass problem with those has nothing to do with the chamber, and everything to do with how they eject brass so far that it's easy to lose it. That's why I didn't get more than 6 loads on any of the brass.

Is that with .308?? And a standard FL Die??

If so please share with the class.

 

[Yondering]

Yes and yes. 7.62/308 and Forster 308 FL die set. What else is there to say? It worked fine, as long as you could find the brass to load it again. I've had old bolt actions with loose chambers that were harder to size brass for.

Oh I guess there's this part too - the harsh ejection tended to ding up the brass on the neck and body, but that didn't prevent it from being loaded again and again until it got lost. We're not talking about a 1,000 yard match rifle.

So I'm guessing you were just repeating what you've heard? This seems to be one of those things everyone repeats online but has never actually tried it. I don't know why, other than maybe it sounds like it might be true?

 

[Bigjake83]

Yes and yes. 7.62/308 and Forster 308 FL die set. What else is there to say? It worked fine, as long as you could find the brass to load it again. I've had old bolt actions with loose chambers that were harder to size brass for.

Oh I guess there's this part too - the harsh ejection tended to ding up the brass on the neck and body, but that didn't prevent it from being loaded again and again until it got lost. We're not talking about a 1,000 yard match rifle.

So I'm guessing you were just repeating what you've heard? This seems to be one of those things everyone repeats online but has never actually tried it. I don't know why, other than maybe it sounds like it might be true?

The only way the Forster FL die will work consistently is if you have them ream the neck out to .332 from .327.... Ask me how I know!?

 

[Yondering]

The only way the Forster FL die will work consistently is if you have them ream the neck out to .332 from .327.... Ask me how I know!?

I have no idea how you think you "know", but it worked just fine for me with a bunch of different brands of brass, although mostly LC, PMC, and TW69. Even thin junky Winchester worked fine. Try lubing your case necks.

When someone says a thing is impossible, but someone else is actually doing it, that thing is not impossible. It just means the first guy didn't figure out how to do it right, or maybe didn't actually try it.

 

[Bigjake83]

I am currently reloading for the LaRue .308 with Xtraxn Barrel. I've used Redding, RCBS and Hornady FL Sizing all of which will not work reliably without damaging the cases or ripping the case heads off. Are you saying you're currently using a standard Forster FL die without any modifications??

 

[Bigjake83]

To the OP, Just Google "Reloading larue xtraxn chamber".... And you'll see for yourself, there are countless pages on multiple forums with the same complaint.

And bottom line is you WON'T see this issue with JP, GAP, Wilson, KAC, LMT, Seekins and many others

 

[Yondering]

I am currently reloading for the LaRue .308 with Xtraxn Barrel. I've used Redding, RCBS and Hornady FL Sizing all of which will not work reliably without damaging the cases or ripping the case heads off. Are you saying you're currently using a standard Forster FL die without any modifications??

I think my question was pretty clear:

Are you actually speaking from any experience with a 91, or just repeating something you heard?

I'm not talking about a Larue, I asked you about a 91 and you're avoiding the answer. Sounds like it's a pretty safe assumption that you just repeated something you heard and claimed it as fact.

I'm not arguing for or against a Larue and don't care one way or another.

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

If you're planning on reloading I'd skip the LaRue, that XTRAXN Chamber makes it damn near impossible to reuse the fire formed brass, same as the HK91.

I am curious if you're basing this off your actual experience with LaRue guns?

I've borrowed and/or owned 3 different OBRs over the years and have reload brass from each of them (Hornady/Redding FL Dies) and never had issues with the chamber flutes in terms of accuracy or reliability. In fact one of those rifles won The U.S. Army International Sniper Comp in 2014, with reloads. HK chambers on the other hand seemed to have a much more pronounced fluting from what I've seen out of the PSG1/MSG90s, I can't say I've ever tried to reload that stuff but I could see how those chambers could cause trouble. Ones main concern with HKs and their brass is those bad boys have an ejection pattern with a casualty producing radius of about 10m!

 

[PBWalsh]

Anyone here with experience with the PWS line of large frame rifles?

 

[the monk]

Does anyone have a recent PredatOBR? What are your results? Any idea on current lead time?

I get the barrel swap but I think I would only do that if the gun was crap.

 

[the monk]

I'd look at the POF Revolution DI or a VSeven. My POF is definitely (and easily) sub-MOA with good ammunition and damn near close to that with cheap stuff like PMC Bronze. Plus it weighs sub-seven pounds. Why carry around something two pounds heavier? Have your cake and eat it too. The V7 is a few ounces lighter but uses a lot of titanium/magnesium to get there where the POF does not. Plus, it truly is the size of a 5.56 AR and it's been dead reliable and shoots everything without fail.

I have looked at the V Seven. I have a custom built AR with one of his barrels and it is a .5 MOA gun. The thing is a laser. I dont know how keen I am on the titanium BCG though. I think the gun it too light at under 6.5lb but you could add weight pretty easily.

POF is interesting and I need to do more research. Am I correct that they are upsizing 556 parts? That may have been first gen guns.

 

[nn8734]

I have looked at the V Seven. I have a custom built AR with one of his barrels and it is a .5 MOA gun. The thing is a laser. I dont know how keen I am on the titanium BCG though. I think the gun it too light at under 6.5lb but you could add weight pretty easily.

POF is interesting and I need to do more research. Am I correct that they are upsizing 556 parts? That may have been first gen guns.

So you’re looking for a sub-MOA battle rifle? Hmmm...not saying is impossible but will be difficult IMO, largely depends on what you’re willing to spend.

What sort of size targets and at what max effective range will you typically be engaging?

I have an ACC (you mentioned considering in the first post) and it’s a solid 1.5 MOA gun that will run with most anything you feed it. It’s smooth shooting, lightweight and dead nuts reliable with the best gas system on a production rifle out there. I ran it with a leupold Mk6 CMR-W 7.62 regularly hit 2/3 ipsc steel using the reticle’s BDC hold overs to 600. It was fast (I sold the scope earlier in the year to finance a Dillon XL750 but will be buying another)

My buddy has a 16” MR762 and he typically shoots 3/4” at 100, also runs like a top. Has no problems making hits out to 800 on 2/3 ipsc targets...Knock on HK is the proprietary nature of parts which can turn folks off.

No experience with the PredOBR but it looks intriguing.

 

[Krob95]

JP LRP-07 in 308. Literally shot a 1 hole, 5 round group with one the other week. If accuracy is what you’re after, I would get a JP. Pretty damn reliable too from all the shooting I’ve done and seen done with it as well with a steady diet of FGMM 168’s.

 

[the monk]

So you’re looking for a sub-MOA battle rifle? Hmmm...not saying is impossible but will be difficult IMO, largely depends on what you’re willing to spend.

What sort of size targets and at what max effective range will you typically be engaging?

I have an ACC (you mentioned considering in the first post) and it’s a solid 1.5 MOA gun that will run with most anything you feed it. It’s smooth shooting, lightweight and dead nuts reliable with the best gas system on a production rifle out there. I ran it with a leupold Mk6 CMR-W 7.62 regularly hit 2/3 ipsc steel using the reticle’s BDC hold overs to 600. It was fast (I sold the scope earlier in the year to finance a Dillon XL750 but will be buying another)

My buddy has a 16” MR762 and he typically shoots 3/4” at 100, also runs like a top. Has no problems making hits out to 800 on 2/3 ipsc targets...Knock on HK is the proprietary nature of parts which can turn folks off.

No experience with the PredOBR but it looks intriguing.

Range would be 600y and in. I get the sub MOA battle rifle is difficult so I should do a better job explaining what I'm after. I am NOT looking for a kitted prone gun with a prs type stock and setup as a sniper rifle. I am looking more for a 308 Recce. Its in an AR config and is reliable enough (SR25 & the SCAR being the reliability standards) but can also shoot lights out. Most of its life will be shooting small groups or shooting small steel 400-600 yard out.

I have no issue spending SR25 money but in speaking to guys at Knights they are saying 1.5 MOA. You will have good days and bad days but most of your days will end up at 1.5 MOA. But then you hear stories like those above with a .65 MOA test target.

Larue is interesting as back in the day they were super accurate. Knights would say he was doing that at the expense of reliability. I did a fair share of asking around on the topic and heard that they are plenty reliable but are more of a precision machine and they need to be treated that way. An SR25 takes a bit more abuse when it comes to keeping it clean and lubed.

That being said you see a LOT of Larue guns that people waited for that they are now selling. That could be the sign of the times or trying flip it quick and make a few bucks. I have also read a few randomly placed comments here on the Hide about how the newer guns are hit or miss. Waiting 4-12 months to get a miss and then having to get try to get rid of it sucks.

 

[nn8734]

Yep, as mentioned, the SR25 chrome lined carbines (ACC) are consistently 1.5; the APCs (SS) have the potential to be 1 MOA or better, esp after the first 500 rounds or so.

How small is “small steel”?

If 8” discs at 600 is what you’re thinking, my ACC does that but admittedly hit rate is about 50% (I also readily acknowledge that I’m the primary reason for that hit rate, not the gun).

What scope you plan on running on it?

Edit: what bullet you plan on using?

 

[the monk]

Yep, as mentioned, the SR25 chrome lined carbines (ACC) are consistently 1.5; the APCs (SS) have the potential to be 1 MOA or better, esp after the first 500 rounds or so.

How small is “small steel”?

If 8” discs at 600 is what you’re thinking, my ACC does that but admittedly hit rate is about 50% (I also readily acknowledge that I’m the primary reason for that hit rate, not the gun).

What scope you plan on running on it?

6" circles to 3/4 silhouette. Glass will probably be Leupold Mark 6 3-18.

 

[nn8734]

6" circles to 3/4 silhouette. Glass will probably be Leupold Mark 6 3-18.

What bullet? I’d run a Berger OTM Hybrid in the 168-185 weight class.

My .02: KAC APC with 185 Juggernauts. Paired with the Mk6 3-18 (and perhaps an RDS fir point defense) it should have the combo of reliability and precision to meet your needs

 

[the monk]

I am curious if you're basing this off your actual experience with LaRue guns?

I've borrowed and/or owned 3 different OBRs over the years and have reload brass from each of them (Hornady/Redding FL Dies) and never had issues with the chamber flutes in terms of accuracy or reliability. In fact one of those rifles won The U.S. Army International Sniper Comp in 2014, with reloads. HK chambers on the other hand seemed to have a much more pronounced fluting from what I've seen out of the PSG1/MSG90s, I can't say I've ever tried to reload that stuff but I could see how those chambers could cause trouble. Ones main concern with HKs and their brass is those bad boys have an ejection pattern with a casualty producing radius of about 10m!

Rudy, taking reloading out of the equation, what was your experience with those three rifles? Accuracy? Reliability? Any experience with the newer guns (since Mikes divorce)?

 

[the monk]

What bullet? I’d run a Berger OTM Hybrid in the 168-185 weight class.

My .02: KAC APC with 185 Juggernauts. Paired with the Mk6 3-18 (and perhaps an RDS fir point defense) it should have the combo of reliability and precision to meet your needs

I am sitting on a nice pile of 168gr GMM.

ETA - I hear you. The 3/4-24 threading sucks though and would make my life difficult for the cans I have. AAC is defunct but I could probably get the guys at battlecomp to do a custom thread for me. It would appear that Sig could care less about that threading - I nee to call them.

 

[nn8734]

I am sitting on a nice pile of 168gr GMM.

ETA - I hear you. The 3/4-24 threading sucks though and would make my life difficult for the cans I have. AAC is defunct but I could probably get the guys at battlecomp to do a custom thread for me. It would appear that Sig could care less about that threading - I nee to call them.

Also, Check in with ECCO machine. He adapts AAC cans to thread onto Dead Air mounts by removing the ratchet teeth and rethreading the inner diameter of the suppressor.

https://m.facebook.com/ECCOmachine/

 

[Bigjake83]

I am curious if you're basing this off your actual experience with LaRue guns?

I've borrowed and/or owned 3 different OBRs over the years and have reload brass from each of them (Hornady/Redding FL Dies) and never had issues with the chamber flutes in terms of accuracy or reliability. In fact one of those rifles won The U.S. Army International Sniper Comp in 2014, with reloads. HK chambers on the other hand seemed to have a much more pronounced fluting from what I've seen out of the PSG1/MSG90s, I can't say I've ever tried to reload that stuff but I could see how those chambers could cause trouble. Ones main concern with HKs and their brass is those bad boys have an ejection pattern with a casualty producing radius of about 10m!

Are you absolutely sure the ones you borrowed or owned had Xtraxn????

Yes I'm speaking from experience unfortunately. I'm currently dealing with the issue, That's why I'm having a custom barrel spun up right now as we speak. You can't reload for the LaRue .308 rifles without having custom dies made, and even then it's hit or miss. And for the people like you who have stated they have reloaded brass Xtraxn Chambers with a standard FL sizing makes me think there must be some serious variations in chamber size from different barrel lots LaRue puts out.. as I said above just Google "Reloading larue xtraxn chamber" and you'll see.

 

[Bigjake83]

I think my question was pretty clear:


I'm not talking about a Larue, I asked you about a 91 and you're avoiding the answer. Sounds like it's a pretty safe assumption that you just repeated something you heard and claimed it as fact.

I'm not arguing for or against a Larue and don't care one way or another.

I honestly didn't even notice that you were specifically talking about the HK91. I think we have been arguing about two different points and two different rifles and this ones on me.

No I have not tried to reload for the HK91/PSG1/MSG90 was only using it as a comparison because of the indentions It leaves on the brass similar to the LaRue which unfortunately I have a lot of experience with at this time and as far as I know those are the only rifles to ever use that chambering idea.

 

[Qazwsx]

My 260 predatobr is as accurate as a good bolt gun. My 308 barrel is usually .75”-1” for five. No reliability issues with either 100% suppressed with a tranquilo.

I have seen predatobrs fail, but those were unmaintained class guns that were treated like crap over thousands of rounds. I’ve also seen m110s and sr25s consistently produce 1.5+ moa groups with ab39 or 118. While they are reliable with kac mags, kinda disappointing if you’re paying the price of entry tbh.

 

[the monk]

My 260 predatobr is as accurate as a good bolt gun. My 308 barrel is usually .75”-1” for five. No reliability issues with either 100% suppressed with a tranquilo.

I have seen predatobrs fail, but those were unmaintained class guns that were treated like crap over thousands of rounds. I’ve also seen m110s and sr25s consistently produce 1.5+ moa groups with ab39 or 118. While they are reliable with kac mags, kinda disappointing if you’re paying the price of entry tbh.

Thanks for this. When did you get the 308? What did your test target look like?