.338 Lapua newbie groups

[BadApple]

Hey everyone, this is my first post here, but I’ve been creeping on this site and reading a lot of good info from here for a while now. I need your guys’ two cents on something. I have a Christensen Arms BA Tactical in .338LM. I started breaking it in and tried to get it to zero using Hornady 285 ELD factory ammo. I was getting erratic results, about 2 inch groups with some 3 inch flyers. At this point after 60 rounds I noticed the front pillar was loose in the stock. You could pull up on the barrel and it would move in the stock about 1/4 inch. I contacted Christensen and they said “Well thats not supposed to happen, heres a shipping label and we’ll fix it“. They fixed it and I had the rifle back within a week of them receiving it. The stock was tight, they put a new pillar in it, I even got a free hat out of the deal. Fast forward to now, I’m trying to do some load development and zero the scope. Some days i can get 3 shots to touch with 2 flyers in a 5 shot group. Today I cant even get them within 2 inches at 100 yards, even with factory ammo. Now I will fully admit I am far from an experienced bolt gun shooter, especially with a magnum. I am pretty good offhand with pistols and semi autos so I understand form is critical. My question to you guys is is it most likely just shooter error causing these erratic shots and not the scope/rifle combo? What would be the best way to determine this? Ive had this rifle out to 800 yards and ringing the steel fairly consistently and my buddy picked it up and rang a 6 inch plate at 800 dead center, note we were using the 285 ELD factory loads at the time. Here is my current setup for you guys to critique and start a civil war over lol.

CA BA Tactical .338LM Carbon Fiber 27 Inch barrel, 120 rounds total through it, 40 since a boresnake
Steiner T5xi 5-25x56
Accutac Bipod
Hornady 300 grain A Tip, I’ve heard good things from these
87 grains of Ramshot Magnum
Hornady cases, same ones from the factory rounds, all bumped .001 off the shoulder and the bullets are seated .002“ off the rifling, as far as I can tell, again, not a pro.
Fed 215 Magnum primers
Pushing about 2646fps
Ive taken extra care to get every round within .001“ of each other and checking concentricity.

I doubt the load could cause this kind of grouping, and I did try different powder charges and my rifle seemed to like these the best, better groups and better MVV
But I offer that info for you guys to give me some insight. I am 100% okay with me just simply sucking behind the rifle, I can improve that, but want to get your guys’ opinion before I start sending the dollar bills downrange and I’m actually chasing a poor setup. Try to keep it civil, Ive seen the way some of these threads go and I prefer to avoid WWIII.

Another note, I did notice the stock is closer to the barrel on the left side, but still enough room to get a bill through it.

 

[Quarter Horse]

What size target at 800yds. Ring the steel fairly consistently means what? How many hits in ten rounds? I looked at your rifle on Europtic and it gave the weight as eight pounds one ounce bare. Is that correct?

 

[BadApple]

What size target at 800yds. Ring the steel fairly consistently means what? How many hits in ten rounds? I looked at your rifle on Europtic and it gave the weight as eight pounds one ounce bare. Is that correct?

We were shooting 12 inch plates, then that 6 inch plate I mentioned. Out of 10 rounds I hit 8, all within a 10 inch group, based on the splatter on the plate. At this range, I was shooting from a sitting bench rest. Lately I’ve been trying to group it from a prone position, which is when the large group seems to appear. Without the scope that weight is correct. It’s a fairly light rifle for a .388LM. I will also add I had it out again earlier today trying some other things I read on the hide, adjusting the parallax and trying a different toe support and it seemed my groups tightened up to 1.5 to 2 inch at 100 yards. I chronographed my shots and they are at an average of 2654 today, with an SD of 14 fps.

 

[TheBoctor]

Lately I’ve been trying to group it from a prone position, which is when the large group seems to appear. Without the scope that weight is correct. It’s a fairly light rifle for a .388LM.

Sure sounds like your recoil management needs work. Rifles that light with that much recoil are tough to shoot, and it's usually why people don't recommend them to newer shooters around here. Need to make sure you're squared up behind the gun, are applying the correct amount of shoulder pressure while maintaining good Natural Point of Aim (will be tricky to not muscle the gun with how light it is/how much you'll need to pull it into your shoulder), and make sure you're not flinching.

 

[BadApple]

Sure sounds like your recoil management needs work. Rifles that light with that much recoil are tough to shoot, and it's usually why people don't recommend them to newer shooters around here. Need to make sure you're squared up behind the gun, are applying the correct amount of shoulder pressure while maintaining good Natural Point of Aim (will be tricky to not muscle the gun with how light it is/how much you'll need to pull it into your shoulder), and make sure you're not flinching.

I was kinda leaning that way, just wanted to see your guys thoughts. When you guys pull the trigger, does the rifle pretty much stay on target through recoil? It does move a bit when I fire, like you said, I’m not experienced with the large magnums. I checked my flinch with someone putting a blank in the chamber without telling me and it doesn’t move at all when I click it. I’m fine with me just sucking, that’s something I can improve. I didn’t want to start shooting a bunch if the setup was an issue. Do you guys have any other recoil management drills I could try to run? Or is the best method sending rounds down range and have a buddy check my form? Thanks for the help so far

 

[TheBoctor]

If the gun will shoot good groups off the bench, the setup is good.

If you have access to a lighter recoiling gun, that will be your best bet. If that's not realistic, you can load up some 250's and run them a slower to get the recoil down. Barrel wear and component cost are still going to be concerns, but again, that's why most people are advised against the big magnums for learning the fundamentals.

There's one drill that I have found helps me check my NPA for my big guns and I do it every shot before i close the bolt to make sure my position is sound, and it doesn't require live fire. Make sure the gun is safe and you're in a good spot to dry fire. Lay out behind it and build your position, make sure you're good and square, get your bipod loaded, make sure your support hand/bag is good, etc. Once you're settled, start applying/releasing your shoulder pressure with your firing hand. Your reticle shouldn't move off target. A lot of the time, you end up not pulling straight back with your firing hand and you end up pushing the stock with your face to offset it. Or you'll be pulling the grip away from you to align with the target since your NPA isn't correct. You'll quickly see which way you're favoring by which way the reticle moves off target. It might not seem major, but it will cause the gun to "hop" left/right when you touch off a live round, and you'll be scrambling to get back on target to see the impact.


If you've got the time to burn, poke through Frank's videos, he does a great job of explaining the fundamentals and iirc he has a few videos on recoil management. It's like he's a professional or something...

SHLowlight

Owner of Sniper's Hide Website, for the Serious Tactical Marksman We look at training, reviews, new products and bring that information to the masses. Sniper...

www.youtube.com

 

[BadApple]

If the gun will shoot good groups off the bench, the setup is good.

If you have access to a lighter recoiling gun, that will be your best bet. If that's not realistic, you can load up some 250's and run them a slower to get the recoil down. Barrel wear and component cost are still going to be concerns, but again, that's why most people are advised against the big magnums for learning the fundamentals.

There's one drill that I have found helps me check my NPA for my big guns and I do it every shot before i close the bolt to make sure my position is sound, and it doesn't require live fire. Make sure the gun is safe and you're in a good spot to dry fire. Lay out behind it and build your position, make sure you're good and square, get your bipod loaded, make sure your support hand/bag is good, etc. Once you're settled, start applying/releasing your shoulder pressure with your firing hand. Your reticle shouldn't move off target. A lot of the time, you end up not pulling straight back with your firing hand and you end up pushing the stock with your face to offset it. Or you'll be pulling the grip away from you to align with the target since your NPA isn't correct. You'll quickly see which way you're favoring by which way the reticle moves off target. It might not seem major, but it will cause the gun to "hop" left/right when you touch off a live round, and you'll be scrambling to get back on target to see the impact.


If you've got the time to burn, poke through Frank's videos, he does a great job of explaining the fundamentals and iirc he has a few videos on recoil management. It's like he's a professional or something...

SHLowlight

Owner of Sniper's Hide Website, for the Serious Tactical Marksman We look at training, reviews, new products and bring that information to the masses. Sniper...

www.youtube.com

That’s actually pretty good advice, thanks. I was actually doing something similar to what you’re talking about with testing the rifle movement this evening. I would get on target and relax and the rifle would stay on, but getting my firing hand in position would move the rifle slightly and i noticed I’d use my face to get it back on, that’s something I’ll have to work on, and I have an older .30-06 could use for that if need be. On the topic of barrel wear, how many rounds are people seeing in these carbon fiber barrels in these hot calibers? I have rifles with thousands of rounds through them and they still shoot fine. I’ve seen the normal steel barrels can last a few thousand at least. I have no problem wearing out a barrel in a rifle to figure it out if it improves the skill set with that caliber, just curious what some people consider “shot out”.

 

[Quarter Horse]

That's going to come in at about 12 and half to 13# and yes that's light. My TRG with factory brake, factory bipod, rings, factory rail and an empty magazine weighs about 15#10oz.s. That's a significant difference when your talking about felt recoil.

There are a number of ways to mitigate recoil. You can buy a more efficient brake. You can add weight to your rifle. You can buy a more efficient recoil pad or buy a slip on limb-saver pad. You're reloading so you can choose a lighter bullet and/or reduce the powder charge. Another easy addition is a PAST Recoil Shield. I walked in to LGS a couple of decades ago and they had PAST Safari Shirts with the field pad for less than the strap on field pad. I bought two. I was amazed at how effective it was. Reloading means you're not obligated to use the more expensive target bullets.

Even reloading, the .338LM is expensive to shoot. If you visit the reloading PX you can sometimes find once fired .338LM Lapua cases. These have a good life if your shooting reduced loads. How many reloads will depend on the load you choose. Case life and bullet cost are the main factors affecting your cost per round. I've had good luck with Hornady Interlock 250grn. Spire points. Your savings will be about forty percent per bullet. When I reloaded the first few Hornadys their POI was essentially the same as 250SMKs. I did not alter the OAL or charge. As always, caution when developing loads.

You asked about knowing whether your barrel is shot out. Typically it is determined by a change in the rifles ability to shoot consistent grps. For example, your rifle shoots +/- 1/2 MOA. After X- rounds it opens up to 3/4 MOA. If 3/4s is ok with the shooter, carry on. If not, you can try and chase the leade or it's time to rebarrel.

Barrel life? I can't answer. I have never shot out a barrel. To enhance barrel life shoot sub-max loads. Don't heat the barrel up. Give it time to cool. Bring two rifles and switch.

SHLowlight, has an online training video series. Go to the Home Page and find Upgrade Your Account.

If you're wondering about a flinch have someone watch your eyes when you shoot to see if your blinking the shot.

A simple drill I use is to dry-fire five times for every round I shoot. You need to put as much work in as you would shooting a live round.

 

[BadApple]

Sounds like I have a good excuse to go get a 6.5 Creedmoor, been thinking about it for a bit anyways. I’ve been watching some of those SHLowlight videos and they are pretty helpful. Gives me some good things to try next time at the range.