338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

[michael_aos]

I'm going to start ordering components next month. I definitely plan on using Lapua brass, but after that I'm wide open. Trying to shortcut the process of trying a whole bunch of different combinations.

I'm assuming 300gr-class bullets. Any specific suggestions? 26" barrel, and C.I.P. chambering. Factory magazine supports 3.760" COAL.

My initial thought is H1000 powder, but again I'm sure open to suggestion. I just really don't want to buy 6 different 1lb jugs.

Same question for primers - I plan to buy 1K for starters. It would be nice to know what's working well for guys that have already done all this.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Hello Michael,

Sadly I don't have any info on hand for you - most of my shooting thus far has been with S250MKs and RE-22. The components you mention seem to be pretty popular on here - have you tried a search in this forum? I'm sure you'd get a lot of results that should prove useful.

Good luck,

Monte

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Berger 300gr Match Hybrid OTM (G1 BC .818) = ~$.67
Sierra 300gr HPBT MatchKing (G1 BC .768) = ~$.54
Lapua 300gr HPBT Scenar (G1 BC .736) = ~$.67

I'll probably start with the Berger.

I've seen Retumbo & H4831sc mentioned in addition to H1000. I'd still like to narrow it down to 1 powder initially.
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[bm11]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Also RL-25, though that said, I have a bunch of it and I'm still going to try h1000 from everything I've read.

 

[diego-ted]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

For mw BA it's H 1000 and Retumbo pushing a 300gr SMK using FGMM mag primers. Start at 85 gr and work up to what your BA likes. Some like the CCI mag primer better. VV n70 is the new powder and lots like it but to much $ for me. You can search my user name to see some ofbmy 300 yard groups.

Diego

 

[shoepop]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Michael why do you "assume" 300's? Don't drink all the 300 cool aid. 300's MAY be the ticket past 1500 yards, are you planning to shoot further than that? Don't rule out the 250's.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diego-ted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VV n70 is the new powder and lots like it but to much $ for me.</div></div>

I think you meant N<span style="font-weight: bold">5</span>70?

I'm surprised how much more expensive it is than H1000 / Retumbo / H4831sc, but it probably works out to something like "only" $.15/rd more for the N570.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">]300's MAY be the ticket past 1500 yards, are you planning to shoot further than that?</div></div>

Probably. Although not MUCH further than that. Definitely planning 1600 yards. Not really sure after that.

I also have a 260 Remington and a "straight" 284 Winchester, so the 338 Lapua would likely be reserved more for distant stuff.

I was kind of wondering though, with "only" a 26" barrel, if maybe I could push the 250's faster-enough to overcome the BC advantage of the 300's?
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[shoepop]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

I suggest you run some #'s Michael, at 1600 a toss up.

 

[excaliber]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Hey Michael Aos, I thought the G1 bc for the Lapua scenar was .810. That is what Sinclair shows. Where did you get that number you have?

 

[turbo54]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">]300's MAY be the ticket past 1500 yards, are you planning to shoot further than that?</div></div>

Probably. Although not MUCH further than that. Definitely planning 1600 yards. Not really sure after that.

I also have a 260 Remington and a "straight" 284 Winchester, so the 338 Lapua would likely be reserved more for distant stuff.

I was kind of wondering though, with "only" a 26" barrel, if maybe I could push the 250's faster-enough to overcome the BC advantage of the 300's?
-- </div></div>

No, not really. BC is king, and it takes a LOT of velocity to make up for a lack of BC. The 250 Scenar @ 2800fps is consistent at 1760 yards from my experience. Takes ~65 moa to get there, though it is subsonic.

If I were you, being you've already got reasonable calibers to get you out to 1500ish, I'd pick one of the big boys (Berger OTM or 300 Scenar), develop a load, and only bother to pull it out for 1000+ ranges.

Retumbo is an excellent powder, and temp stable. RL25 is a good one too, but NOT temp stable (the bane of the entire RE lineup). Retumbo does however run dirty/sooty on all but the highest pressure charges. Tends to work best at max charge.

If I wanted the highest chance of finding a GREAT load on my first "guess" of components, it would be Lapua brass, CCI primer, 300 Scenar and Retumbo.

I'd run ladders from 86gr or 87gr to 94 or 95 at 600+ yards, in 1gr increments (about 1%). I'd look carefully for pressure up around 92 or 93.

Good luck, have fun!

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the G1 bc for the Lapua scenar was .810. That is what Sinclair shows. Where did you get that number you have? </div></div>

From the Lapua website. It says .736 G1 BC & .368 G7 BC.
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[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I wanted the highest chance of finding a GREAT load on my first "guess" of components, it would be Lapua brass, CCI primer, 300 Scenar and Retumbo.</div></div>

Thank you. That's exactly the sort of info I was looking for.

It's going to be another week before I order, but right now I'm kind of leaning toward N570 and the Berger 300gr. I might order some of both powders and bullets to do a side-by-side comparison. I just don't want to have too many variables.

 

[heydavemd]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

I really like H1000, and can get .3MOA consistently (sometimes a bit better), but I'm shooting 250 scenars.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heydavemd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really like H1000</div></div>

That was going to be my first choice, as I've heard of other people having great results with it. But then I read several negative comments that said it was especially sensitive to temperature changes.
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[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

I think I'm going to order:
200pc of Lapua 338 Lapua brass
1K CCI #250 large rifle magnum primers
250ct Berger 300gr Hybrid
4lbs VV N570

I might still order a pound of Retumbo & 1lb H1000 just in case the N570 doesn't work out. Might help avoid another HAZMAT fee.
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[Jeffvn]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

H1000 is not going to be as sensitive to temp swings as RL-25, or RL-22, or even VV570. All are good powders, but have sensitivity to temp swings.

I have and use H1000 as my default powder of choice in my 338LM for 300 gr. SMKs, and Retumbo in my 338LM Improved, for 300 gr. SMKs. I live in vegas, and use one load year-round, so its good for 29 degrees in the winter AND 115 degrees in the summer.

I also us H1000 as one of my default powders of choice in my 7WSM (the others being H4831SC and Retumbo).

JeffVN

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

For every person that says H1000, Retumbo, or N570 is temperature sensitive and sucks, I find another person that says it isn't and works great.

I really didn't want to screw around with 3 different powders, but it's starting to look like I'll have to.

Now I'm just trying to decide if I want to do 1lb, or 2lbs of each of the 3.
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[D_TROS]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Hey M.A.,

I am also gathering components to reload for my 338lm I recently purchased.

After reading as much sa I can, and reading the following sites at least,

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

H1000 burns faster than both Rotumbo and VV570. With a 26" barrel, I would think that would be about optimal.
I have a 22" barrel, so I am looking for something a little faster still. So I bought a pd of H1000 to try as well as H4831SC. But I have talked to some friends that use rotumbo and get great velocity as well as being temp stable

http://www.hodgdon.com/extreme.html
Fun facts on each powder.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=348739
more load info on the 338.

For primers I got 1k of the fed 215m. Heard good things. 39.99 bucks at sportmans.

I would def go to a store like Sportsmans Warehouse (where I went, good selection) and get some powder there so you dont have to worry about Hazmat shipping charges (at least initially to get load info, before you buy in bulk). They also had goo dbullert selection (both Berger 300gr as well as SMK's) Also, If you live around Miliken, CO, I have a contact that has the cheapest prices I have ever found on powder (just over $20 a pound.) Havent ordered from him in a while, but I dont think his prices went up that much, if at all

I will prob order dies off the Redding group buy but I am not sure which ones yet. Which ones oyu getting?

For bullets, I just went cheap and easy, the 300 SMK's. GOt them on here for a good price and dont see the almost half again price increase for the added BC the others offer. Since I am trying to keep loads under $1 a round (w/expected 10 reloads with lapua brass), I think the SMK's will do the job nicely.

Hope this helps,
_DT

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sportsmans Warehouse</div></div>

Thanks. I normally hate paying their prices, plus tax, but in this case they might be the way to go.
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[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H1000 burns faster than both Rotumbo and VV570. With a 26" barrel, I would think that would be about optimal.</div></div>

I was thinking this at first too, but then I read another article that said the powder actually gets burned in the first couple of inches regardless.

Maybe I just don't really understand the relationship between fast-powder / short barrel and slow-powder / long-barrel.
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[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Sportsmans Warehouse had H1000 in-stock for $20.99/1lb. Not bad. They were out of Retumbo for $22.99/1lb. They're each $19.75/1lb from Powder Valley.

Lots of different Magnum Rifle primers in-stock. Seemed to run around $35/1K, and also available in 100ct.

Didn't see much for 338 bullets. They had 1 box of HSM 250gr ammo for $70.

7.4% sales-tax here

 

[dstewart51]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Its not that ALL the powder gets burned in the first few inches, its that most of the usable pressure is done in the first few inches. As the combustion chamber volume is increased with the travel of the bullet the combustion pressure falls rapidly. No way around this no matter how slow your powder is. The key is to hit optimum peak pressure and hold it to achieve maximum safe bullet acceleration. In a way your trying to tune the peak pressure pulse and where it occurs in relationship to bullet position in the barrel.

A majority of the acceleration is done in the first few inches. The powder is still burning as the bullet leaves the barrel. Its just the bullet is accelerating at a much slower rate.

Here is an example of a pressure vs projectile acceleration,

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will prob order dies off the Redding group buy but I am not sure which ones yet. Which ones oyu getting? </div></div>

I forgot about the Redding Group Buy and ordered Redding neck die, body die, and Competition seater die from Midway.
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[bcrich]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sportsmans Warehouse had H110 in-stock for $20.99/1lb. Not bad. They were out of Retumbo for $22.99/1lb. They're each $19.75/1lb from Powder Valley.

Lots of different Magnum Rifle primers in-stock. Seemed to run around $35/1K, and also available in 100ct.

Didn't see much for 338 bullets. They had 1 box of HSM 250gr ammo for $70.
7.4% sales-tax here </div></div>
You mean H1000 right? I use H110 for my M1 carbine. Damn all this talk and I have yet to fire my Savage fcp-hs

 

[Coryjames]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

In my 110 FCp hs I use Sierra 300g hornady brass and found 94g of retumbo cci large rifle magnum primers to be a good load a little hot but stays very accurate so far only had the chance to shoot 600 but 2.5 inch groups I'll take it have tried from 86 up retumbo is very good IMO.


Edit
Have shot this load at -15 all the way up to 70 this weekend was up hunting took a few shots at 400y was very consistent even at -15 also the muzzle break throws some snow from prone position. Cleared the ground about 10ft on either side. Recoil is very well controlled with the factory break. My 45-70 kicks 3-4 times harder

 

[former naval person]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Tried Retumbo, RL 25, H1000, and VV570with the 300's. 570 was best ES and accuracy, plus top speed. JMHO

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">570 was best ES and accuracy, plus top speed. JMHO </div></div>

Awesome. That was my first choice initially as well, but then the more I read the more I second-guessed it.

What rifle / length barrel are you running?

 

[Coryjames]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

I did not have good luck with rl25 tried h1000 but my rifle likes the retumbo what are you guys trim specs? And oacl?

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

I ordered 4lbs of N570, 1lb each of H1000 & Retumbo. Also 1K CCI #250 large rifle magnum primers.
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[bcrich]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Finally fired some test rounds in my 110fcp-hs. I used tula mag primers and RL25 and lapua brass with 300g smks and started at 86g but noticed a delay between firing pin strike and ignition of the powder WTF? best accuracy was at 88g so far and didnt notice a delay with that charge.... should I try different primers? Gonna see if accuracy gets any better with higher charges. 5 shots at 200yds was 1moa (I know not very impressive but the quest continues)

 

[dstewart51]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Delay like a hangfire?

I have no experience with Tula primers, but that would be the first component I would switch.

 

[bcrich]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Im talking milliseconds delay, I've had similar problems using ball powder in 7.62x54r Im gonna try other magnum primers.

 

[D_TROS]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tried Retumbo, RL 25, H1000, and VV570with the 300's. 570 was best ES and accuracy, plus top speed. JMHO </div></div>

VV powder is notoriously faster (edit: muzzle velocity, not burn rate), but also one of the most temperature sensitive powders you can buy. Not the best decision for colorado IMHO.

Also intrested in barrel length and maker.

Regards,
DT

 

[cali_tz]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

that's a pretty blanket statement about VV powder being notoriously faster.
The 570 powder is listed as one of the slowest powders even on competitors lists.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

I think he meant N570 tends to produce the highest muzzle velocities.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

The components arrived today.

Just waiting on a seating die from MidwayUSA.
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[Coryjames]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

Tried rl25 with no luck same with rl22 any load of retumbo from 86 up to 94 is money in my 110hs

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

I've got 4lbs of VV N570, 1lb of Retumbo & 1lb of H1000 to play with.

Both Retumbo & H1000 are available locally as well.
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[matthias]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

I have been using h1000 powder for the last 8 months trough my 110 ba with great results. i run the 300 gr. sierras and a less than max charge h1000 lapua brass and federal primers. i have shot 853 rounds with this load and the groups are averaging .6 moa across the board.

when i used retumbo there we problems with nasty cratered primers and stuck cases in my gun . not saying it will happen in yours but it did in my savage.

 

[diego-ted]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

What load are use useing? We want to know?

Diego

 

[matthias]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

90.5 h1000 , fed large rifle mag primers, lapua brass , sierra 300 hpbt mk , loaded to 2.974 using hornady 338 bullet comperator.

this load is only safe in my rifle do not use it.

like i said it is very accurate and consistantly produces .6 moa groups when i do my part.

 

[GUNZ n AMMO]

Re: 338 Lapua (powder, bullet, primer) & Savage 110BA

So any updates on this at all? The thread just died with no range report from the OP. I am very interested on the info because The 110BA in 338LM is coming in next week. I have all components ready but I wanted to do a case check with the rifle first prior to working up loads.

Federal 215M
300gr Berger
Retumbo
Lapua cases
Forster trimmer
Forster dies FL, BS
REdding Type S Neck Sizer
Hornady Concentricity Gauge
Forster Co-Ax

It will be a couple of weeks until The results are in.

 

[PERDZA338LM]

Hi mate
I use
89gr retumbo
215 federal mag primers
300gr Berger OTM
LAPUA brass
0.030 off lands
FPS 2740
3 shots at 100 yards
Was 0.162" inch.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">]300's MAY be the ticket past 1500 yards, are you planning to shoot further than that?</div></div>

Probably. Although not MUCH further than that. Definitely planning 1600 yards. Not really sure after that.

I also have a 260 Remington and a "straight" 284 Winchester, so the 338 Lapua would likely be reserved more for distant stuff.

I was kind of wondering though, with "only" a 26" barrel, if maybe I could push the 250's faster-enough to overcome the BC advantage of the 300's?
--

Michael, I think (it's been a while since I ran the numbers) that I figured that 1200 yds or so was where the 300 grs actually "caught" up to the 250's. It was in that vicinity, so certainly at 1500 yards, the 300's are actually going faster still, and have passed the 250's, hitting the target before the 250's would. They also have better retained energy, and will stay supersonic longer. With a shorter barrel (only 26"), you may need to research powders to get the velocities you want, but you may be able to get enough "higher velocity to overcome the BC advantage of the 300's, but you will need to watch your pressures also.
Do you have Quick-Load? It is worth the investment of the $150 or so for the ability to run all kinds of scenarios....

Sorry guys, I missed the dates on this thread. All of you are probably laughing with me at myself for talking as if Michael was still trying to figure out his strategy...... LOL