So I just started shooting the 338LM in a TRG42. For the las few months I have been reading a lot of articles, as well as posts on this rifle and this cartridge in general. And I have read a lot of range and accuracy reports where shooters will show a flyer in each 5 round group. Based on my experience first go at the range this past weekend, I was consistently cloverleafing 4 rounds and and having a flyer group after group. The rifle is obviously holding accurate and the ammo as well, is this a sighn of anticipating recoil. For me I usually found it to be shot 4 that was the flyer, I would settle back down and drill shot 5.
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338LM flinch?
- Thread starter NY700
- Start date
Re: 338LM flinch?
I would have to agree about the anticipation...
My Remington MLR KICKS HARD!... Its just hard getting used to it when you have shot .308s with brakes on them that have the recoil of a .223
Matt.
I would have to agree about the anticipation...
My Remington MLR KICKS HARD!... Its just hard getting used to it when you have shot .308s with brakes on them that have the recoil of a .223
Matt.
Re: 338LM flinch?
It's probably causing at least a little apprehension or tensing up because you're asking.
Suppressed with the TRG42 I've noticed my 7th to 8th shot tends to slip a little bit, and you'll get a little more push into the shoulder suppressed vs. brake.
Are you shooting 250's or heavier pills? How hard are you pushing your hand loads? The closer you get to your max load and pressure you can feel it.
It's probably causing at least a little apprehension or tensing up because you're asking.
Suppressed with the TRG42 I've noticed my 7th to 8th shot tends to slip a little bit, and you'll get a little more push into the shoulder suppressed vs. brake.
Are you shooting 250's or heavier pills? How hard are you pushing your hand loads? The closer you get to your max load and pressure you can feel it.
Re: 338LM flinch?
Stop shooting groups... they are waste of time after you have zeroed the rifle...
And yes, it's a mental aspect, especially at round 4 of a 5 shot group. You are mind fucking yourself, and probably over thinking the issue, moving a bit blowing the group then after you see it is blown, you go back to the way you shot without the pressure of a perfect group.
If you want to shoot group, there is a discipline called BenchRest, they do nothing but shoot groups for score... why would you waste a 338LM shooting groups. Take it out, stretch it's legs, and focus on that 1 round.
I would make a dot drill for a range like 300 yards, 2" Shoot N Cs and focus on putting 1 round in each dot.
But magnum calibers definitely inducing flinching in a lot of shooters, especially if you are focusing on that perfect group.
Stop shooting groups... they are waste of time after you have zeroed the rifle...
And yes, it's a mental aspect, especially at round 4 of a 5 shot group. You are mind fucking yourself, and probably over thinking the issue, moving a bit blowing the group then after you see it is blown, you go back to the way you shot without the pressure of a perfect group.
If you want to shoot group, there is a discipline called BenchRest, they do nothing but shoot groups for score... why would you waste a 338LM shooting groups. Take it out, stretch it's legs, and focus on that 1 round.
I would make a dot drill for a range like 300 yards, 2" Shoot N Cs and focus on putting 1 round in each dot.
But magnum calibers definitely inducing flinching in a lot of shooters, especially if you are focusing on that perfect group.
Re: 338LM flinch?
That's why you need to shoot 3 shot groups
. All joking aside, a 338lm isn't the best bench rest gun for shooting 100yd paper. I suggest 60% dry fire, 40% live fire....
That's why you need to shoot 3 shot groups
Re: 338LM flinch?
I can assure my intention was not to shoot groups nor enter any BR comps. That requires a level of anal retentivness that I do not have. But being the first time i had handled the rifle and the first time with that round and several different loads figured half a dozen five shot groups was a good place to start. What cought my eye was that I was consistantly shooting 4 tight one flyer and in 5 or 6 article I read from different writers in the field their field tests with differnt firearms in 338LM all seemed to have the same 4+1 effect which is why I figured it was either from the recoil or the anticipation of the concusive blast.
to answer an earlier post, im shooting 250gr loads. the TRG I have is 1-12 twist so figure going to the 300gr wouldnt be worth it.
I can assure my intention was not to shoot groups nor enter any BR comps. That requires a level of anal retentivness that I do not have. But being the first time i had handled the rifle and the first time with that round and several different loads figured half a dozen five shot groups was a good place to start. What cought my eye was that I was consistantly shooting 4 tight one flyer and in 5 or 6 article I read from different writers in the field their field tests with differnt firearms in 338LM all seemed to have the same 4+1 effect which is why I figured it was either from the recoil or the anticipation of the concusive blast.
to answer an earlier post, im shooting 250gr loads. the TRG I have is 1-12 twist so figure going to the 300gr wouldnt be worth it.
Re: 338LM flinch?
NY700,
I hear ya, on the recoil. I have the AI AWSM in 338Lapua, and it will wear you out. My first time out, I shot 25 rounds, and flinching like a 12 year old girl by the end. I have a gen 1 brake on it, soon to be the current gen one. I'm shooting a mid level charge of H-1000 and Lapua 300 grainers. I love this rifle, but prefer my 308 for the non-existance of the recoil. Do some dryfiring like others have mentioned, and strech it's legs! JPG
NY700,
I hear ya, on the recoil. I have the AI AWSM in 338Lapua, and it will wear you out. My first time out, I shot 25 rounds, and flinching like a 12 year old girl by the end. I have a gen 1 brake on it, soon to be the current gen one. I'm shooting a mid level charge of H-1000 and Lapua 300 grainers. I love this rifle, but prefer my 308 for the non-existance of the recoil. Do some dryfiring like others have mentioned, and strech it's legs! JPG
Re: 338LM flinch?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you are alot less likely to flinch shooting steel?</div></div>
Never said that, however magnums definitely cause problems in a lot of people... flinching being one of them.
The sound, the recoil, etc... all work to help bad habits along. Attempting to shoot that perfect group is another way to instill bad habits, at least in my opinion. As an example, you see more people "Tapping" the trigger, hoping to not disturb the shot, which moves into holding it lightly, which increases flinch because they are now getting slammed by the rifle in the shoulder, which also risks the infamous scope bite.
So, it's a domino effect for sure, or at least how i see it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you are alot less likely to flinch shooting steel?</div></div>
Never said that, however magnums definitely cause problems in a lot of people... flinching being one of them.
The sound, the recoil, etc... all work to help bad habits along. Attempting to shoot that perfect group is another way to instill bad habits, at least in my opinion. As an example, you see more people "Tapping" the trigger, hoping to not disturb the shot, which moves into holding it lightly, which increases flinch because they are now getting slammed by the rifle in the shoulder, which also risks the infamous scope bite.
So, it's a domino effect for sure, or at least how i see it.
Re: 338LM flinch?
Muzzle brake, muzzle brake, muzzle brake!!
In my experience, even if you can stand the recoil, your ability to stay on target without a brake. I believe in them.
Muzzle brake, muzzle brake, muzzle brake!!
In my experience, even if you can stand the recoil, your ability to stay on target without a brake. I believe in them.
Re: 338LM flinch?
I can certainly see if you were attempting to run this as a bench rest gun, with free recoil and just tapping the trigger developing some really bad habbits.
I am running a brake, standard factory sako.
If anything I would have to thing the concusive blast from the brake would add to developing a flinch. I've bee shooting for a while now doubled up with foam plugs and electronic peltors.
I can certainly see if you were attempting to run this as a bench rest gun, with free recoil and just tapping the trigger developing some really bad habbits.
I am running a brake, standard factory sako.
If anything I would have to thing the concusive blast from the brake would add to developing a flinch. I've bee shooting for a while now doubled up with foam plugs and electronic peltors.
Re: 338LM flinch?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you are alot less likely to flinch shooting steel?</div></div>
Never said that, however magnums definitely cause problems in a lot of people... flinching being one of them.
The sound, the recoil, etc... all work to help bad habits along. Attempting to shoot that perfect group is another way to instill bad habits, at least in my opinion. As an example, you see more people "Tapping" the trigger, hoping to not disturb the shot, which moves into holding it lightly, which increases flinch because they are now getting slammed by the rifle in the shoulder, which also risks the infamous scope bite.
So, it's a domino effect for sure, or at least how i see it. </div></div>
You can't be more correct Lowlight.
I found this very true by learning the hard way behind a 300 RUM with no muzzle break pushing 210 VLDs. After not shooting it all day a first shot bullseye is no problem but after that the anticipation of recoil causes accuracy degrades with each shot.
Now in my experience shooting large caliber heavy guns with muzzle breaks such as Barrett m99s, Cobb 50s, and EDM .408s the flinch effect is almost nil due to the fact that its not a sharp punch in the shoulder. Only thing you have to get use to is the concussion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you are alot less likely to flinch shooting steel?</div></div>
Never said that, however magnums definitely cause problems in a lot of people... flinching being one of them.
The sound, the recoil, etc... all work to help bad habits along. Attempting to shoot that perfect group is another way to instill bad habits, at least in my opinion. As an example, you see more people "Tapping" the trigger, hoping to not disturb the shot, which moves into holding it lightly, which increases flinch because they are now getting slammed by the rifle in the shoulder, which also risks the infamous scope bite.
So, it's a domino effect for sure, or at least how i see it. </div></div>
You can't be more correct Lowlight.
I found this very true by learning the hard way behind a 300 RUM with no muzzle break pushing 210 VLDs. After not shooting it all day a first shot bullseye is no problem but after that the anticipation of recoil causes accuracy degrades with each shot.
Now in my experience shooting large caliber heavy guns with muzzle breaks such as Barrett m99s, Cobb 50s, and EDM .408s the flinch effect is almost nil due to the fact that its not a sharp punch in the shoulder. Only thing you have to get use to is the concussion.
Re: 338LM flinch?
i flinch when those bastards go prone RIGHT fucking next to me with there muzzle break magnums at the range... i find it helps to wait for the assholes to fire there bazooka before i shoot my rifle. that way im not anticipating gun powder being blown in my face as i squeeze one off. i get into position and then close my eyes and wait for the rediculous BOOM! and then i open my eyes aquire a sight picture on target and squeeze one off and rack the bolt. and repeat. not showering may or may not help with this flinch.
oh...this wasnt about assholes with muzzle breaks?.... my mistake... lol
i flinch when those bastards go prone RIGHT fucking next to me with there muzzle break magnums at the range... i find it helps to wait for the assholes to fire there bazooka before i shoot my rifle. that way im not anticipating gun powder being blown in my face as i squeeze one off. i get into position and then close my eyes and wait for the rediculous BOOM! and then i open my eyes aquire a sight picture on target and squeeze one off and rack the bolt. and repeat. not showering may or may not help with this flinch.
oh...this wasnt about assholes with muzzle breaks?.... my mistake... lol
Re: 338LM flinch?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i flinch when those bastards go prone RIGHT fucking next to me with there muzzle break magnums at the range... i find it helps to wait for the assholes to fire there bazooka before i shoot my rifle. that way im not anticipating gun powder being blown in my face as i squeeze one off. i get into position and then close my eyes and wait for the rediculous BOOM! and then i open my eyes aquire a sight picture on target and squeeze one off and rack the bolt. and repeat. not showering may or may not help with this flinch.
oh...this wasnt about assholes with muzzle breaks?.... my mistake... lol </div></div>
Try sitting next to a 50 cal all day
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i flinch when those bastards go prone RIGHT fucking next to me with there muzzle break magnums at the range... i find it helps to wait for the assholes to fire there bazooka before i shoot my rifle. that way im not anticipating gun powder being blown in my face as i squeeze one off. i get into position and then close my eyes and wait for the rediculous BOOM! and then i open my eyes aquire a sight picture on target and squeeze one off and rack the bolt. and repeat. not showering may or may not help with this flinch.
oh...this wasnt about assholes with muzzle breaks?.... my mistake... lol </div></div>
Try sitting next to a 50 cal all day
Re: 338LM flinch?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DUB DEE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i flinch when those bastards go prone RIGHT fucking next to me with there muzzle break magnums at the range... i find it helps to wait for the assholes to fire there bazooka before i shoot my rifle. that way im not anticipating gun powder being blown in my face as i squeeze one off. i get into position and then close my eyes and wait for the rediculous BOOM! and then i open my eyes aquire a sight picture on target and squeeze one off and rack the bolt. and repeat. not showering may or may not help with this flinch.
oh...this wasnt about assholes with muzzle breaks?.... my mistake... lol </div></div>
Try sitting next to a 50 cal all day </div></div>
Just put ear plugs in your nose close your mouth and double up on hearing protection you'll be fine
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DUB DEE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i flinch when those bastards go prone RIGHT fucking next to me with there muzzle break magnums at the range... i find it helps to wait for the assholes to fire there bazooka before i shoot my rifle. that way im not anticipating gun powder being blown in my face as i squeeze one off. i get into position and then close my eyes and wait for the rediculous BOOM! and then i open my eyes aquire a sight picture on target and squeeze one off and rack the bolt. and repeat. not showering may or may not help with this flinch.
oh...this wasnt about assholes with muzzle breaks?.... my mistake... lol </div></div>
Try sitting next to a 50 cal all day </div></div>
Just put ear plugs in your nose close your mouth and double up on hearing protection you'll be fine
Re: 338LM flinch?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DUB DEE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i flinch when those bastards go prone RIGHT fucking next to me with there muzzle break magnums at the range... i find it helps to wait for the assholes to fire there bazooka before i shoot my rifle. that way im not anticipating gun powder being blown in my face as i squeeze one off. i get into position and then close my eyes and wait for the rediculous BOOM! and then i open my eyes aquire a sight picture on target and squeeze one off and rack the bolt. and repeat. not showering may or may not help with this flinch.
oh...this wasnt about assholes with muzzle breaks?.... my mistake... lol </div></div>
Try sitting next to a 50 cal all day </div></div>
Just put ear plugs in your nose close your mouth and double up on hearing protection you'll be fine </div></div>
your one of them arent you!!! *lunges at you* "you son of a bitch!"...
lol jk
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DUB DEE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i flinch when those bastards go prone RIGHT fucking next to me with there muzzle break magnums at the range... i find it helps to wait for the assholes to fire there bazooka before i shoot my rifle. that way im not anticipating gun powder being blown in my face as i squeeze one off. i get into position and then close my eyes and wait for the rediculous BOOM! and then i open my eyes aquire a sight picture on target and squeeze one off and rack the bolt. and repeat. not showering may or may not help with this flinch.
oh...this wasnt about assholes with muzzle breaks?.... my mistake... lol </div></div>
Try sitting next to a 50 cal all day </div></div>
Just put ear plugs in your nose close your mouth and double up on hearing protection you'll be fine
</div></div>your one of them arent you!!! *lunges at you* "you son of a bitch!"...
lol jk
Re: 338LM flinch?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DUB DEE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i flinch when those bastards go prone RIGHT fucking next to me with there muzzle break magnums at the range... i find it helps to wait for the assholes to fire there bazooka before i shoot my rifle. that way im not anticipating gun powder being blown in my face as i squeeze one off. i get into position and then close my eyes and wait for the rediculous BOOM! and then i open my eyes aquire a sight picture on target and squeeze one off and rack the bolt. and repeat. not showering may or may not help with this flinch.
oh...this wasnt about assholes with muzzle breaks?.... my mistake... lol </div></div>
Try sitting next to a 50 cal all day </div></div>
Just put ear plugs in your nose close your mouth and double up on hearing protection you'll be fine </div></div>
your one of them arent you!!! *lunges at you* "you son of a bitch!"...
lol jk </div></div>
Yes yes I am
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DUB DEE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i flinch when those bastards go prone RIGHT fucking next to me with there muzzle break magnums at the range... i find it helps to wait for the assholes to fire there bazooka before i shoot my rifle. that way im not anticipating gun powder being blown in my face as i squeeze one off. i get into position and then close my eyes and wait for the rediculous BOOM! and then i open my eyes aquire a sight picture on target and squeeze one off and rack the bolt. and repeat. not showering may or may not help with this flinch.
oh...this wasnt about assholes with muzzle breaks?.... my mistake... lol </div></div>
Try sitting next to a 50 cal all day </div></div>
Just put ear plugs in your nose close your mouth and double up on hearing protection you'll be fine
</div></div>your one of them arent you!!! *lunges at you* "you son of a bitch!"...
lol jk </div></div>
Yes yes I am
Re: 338LM flinch?
If you focus on other peoples problems, they then in turn become yours. So in saying, if you hang around with folks complaining about this and that going wrong and the excuses of why the shot went south, you will in time be the same.
Because you’re anticipating and trying to force control of the action versus focusing on the shot and letting it happen,
Good hearing protection and an aggressive attitude with a solid fit in the shoulder allowing the gun to rock, will in turn give you more hits down range.
And yes to dry firing - good for control
Just my opinion
If you focus on other peoples problems, they then in turn become yours. So in saying, if you hang around with folks complaining about this and that going wrong and the excuses of why the shot went south, you will in time be the same.
Because you’re anticipating and trying to force control of the action versus focusing on the shot and letting it happen,
Good hearing protection and an aggressive attitude with a solid fit in the shoulder allowing the gun to rock, will in turn give you more hits down range.
And yes to dry firing - good for control
Just my opinion
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