350 Legend

[Hobo Hilton]

Straight-up Legendary
Introducing the World’s Fastest Straight-Walled Hunting Cartridge
Winchester’s legendary tradition of innovation continues with the 350 Legend, the fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world. Built with hunters and sport shooters in mind, 350 Legend is versatile on the range and in the deer woods.

___________________________________________
Must be something to it, Leupold is offering a scope to go with it:

Straight-walled cartridges have been around longer than you have – guaranteed. But modern technology, ballistic wizardry, and new hunting regulations have breathed new life into this tried-and-true platform. Winchester took note and recently introduced the world’s fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge – the 350 Legend.

While we have numerous scope options that would work well on this new rifle, our custom shop team decided to design a limited-run of the extremely popular VX-3i 2.5-8x36, tuned specifically for the 350.

Scopes, Binoculars, Sport Optics | Leupold

We’ve been making world-class optics that bear our family name for over 100 years. We honor that legacy every day as we design, machine and assemble riflescopes at our state-of-the-art facility in Beaverton, Oregon. When you buy Leupold, you become part o

customshop.leupold.com

_______________________

Where's the niche for this setup?

Hobo

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Not a hunter but it would seem to be that it is faster than a lever action magnum pistol, can be used in an AR where you can use a semi auto, and meets a straight wall requirement where needed.

I think most of us have imagined this cartridge at one time or another. I would like a 20 inch barrel and some different bullets to play with

 

[Niles Coyote]

Where's the niche for this setup?

Hobo

Hunting in Michigan, Ohio & Iowa to name a few. Basically it fits the same role of the 450 Bushmaster but where lighter recoil is desired and you reside in a state where straight walled cartridges are required that are 35 caliber and larger. I have been using the 450 for the past 4 years and will be getting a 350 once I find a deal on a Ruger 16". it will be light and handy like my 450 but without the blast and recoil while still being 200 yard capable. That wont stop from playing around at the range at 5 and 6 hundred though.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Hunting in Michigan, Ohio & Iowa to name a few. Basically it fits the same role of the 450 Bushmaster but where lighter recoil is desired and you reside in a state where straight walled cartridges are required that are 35 caliber and larger. I have been using the 450 for the past 4 years and will be getting a 350 once I find a deal on a Ruger 16". it will be light and handy like my 450 but without the blast and recoil while still being 200 yard capable. That wont stop from playing around at the range at 5 and 6 hundred though.

Thank you for the explanation...

Hobo

 

[lash]

I’ve been watching this cartridge for quite a while now. It is exactly what I have dreamed about. It’s not a priority, but would like to have a rifle in this one day. I’ve been thinking 18” barrel myself.

In my mind, I also see this as a great fit for the longer action lever action rifles, like maybe a nice Henry.

 

[Jerry m]

I really think Winchester missed the boat by not using a standard 5.56 casing. Their larger case base size means you need to use .350 Legend brass. I thing that this will hurt popularity.

Good Luck

Jerry

 

[Jeeper48]

I plan on building a 12.5 inch upper for my AR pistol in one just because, does that count?

In iowa so technically its legal to hunt with too

 

[ebaas]

I still haven’t seen that it’s officially legal in MI. Thought I read it could potentially still be .003” too short?

 

[Niles Coyote]

I still haven’t seen that it’s officially legal in MI. Thought I read it could potentially still be .003” too short?

It's been official since 2014 when the law was changed.

[In June 2014, Michigan's Natural Resource Commission (NRC) changed what was once known as the "Shotgun Zone" into the "Limited Firearms Zone," which allowed rifles chambered for straight-walled rounds .35 caliber or larger, with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.]

 

[W54/XM-388]

What was the idiocracy behind those stupid regulations?

 

[Niles Coyote]

@W54/XM-388

Prior to the change it was shotguns, muzzleloaders and straight walled cartridge pistols only.

Its the same as Washington when law makers write laws with little to no knowledge of the subject matter.

 

[ebaas]

It's been official since 2014 when the law was changed.
View attachment 7153629
[In June 2014, Michigan's Natural Resource Commission (NRC) changed what was once known as the "Shotgun Zone" into the "Limited Firearms Zone," which allowed rifles chambered for straight-walled rounds .35 caliber or larger, with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.]

I need to correct myself.....Not that the case was .003'' too short, but rather that because of the bullets that it uses are not actual .357'' bullets but are limited to a maximum of .356''. What does this mean? I suppose because of tolerances you could potentially have bullets that are <.350'' in diameter, making the cartridge illegal. I'm not sure a CO is going to get out his calipers and measure to the 3rd decimal place but it made me think twice. It would be reassuring to see something from the state saying that the cartridge is officially legal to use in our Shotgun Zone area.

 

[lash]

It seems pretty cut and dried to me. It’s a far stretch you’re using to talk yourself out of it. .35 caliber means just that. It includes .357 magnum, .357 maximum and now .350 legend. Plus all of the larger straight wall handgun calibers that meet the minimum case length requirement, of course.

Plus, manufacturing tolerances for bullet diameter are much tighter than +/- 0.008” (8 thousandths). If they weren’t then you could end up with some pretty high pressure spikes. I doubt that you will find any more than +/- 0.001” total variation in bullet diameters within caliber.

 

[Niles Coyote]

@ebaas
Our DNR officers are only going to care that the case is straight walled and marked .35something... other states might be different though.

 

[Dewey7271]

What was the idiocracy behind those stupid regulations?

@W54/XM-388

Prior to the change it was shotguns, muzzleloaders and straight walled cartridge pistols only.

Its the same as Washington when law makers write laws with little to no knowledge of the subject matter.

Ohio did the same thing.
Now all it says is straight walled and .357 or larger.
Which begs the same question as someone noted above; with a .356 or bit smaller bullet, TECHNICALLY this wouldn’t be legal in Ohio.

 

[Dewey7271]

Also, fastest straight walled? I only see 2325 on expanding bullets in factory loads. The 444 with 240s will do that all day long imo. (around 48 gr of 4198 with a 240 A Frame)

 

[ebaas]

@lash
This is the article that i was reading when this question came up, I found it interesting.

What's Going On With .350 Legend? - The Truth About Guns

I’ve been asked a lot about the new .350 Legend cartridge, the round that’s set to take on the .450 Bushmaster in the straight-wall legal midwest woods. The .350 Legend has a number of great advantages, and it’s gotten a very positive reception. But there are questions about the cartridge that...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[lash]

Also, fastest straight walled? I only see 2325 on expanding bullets in factory loads. The 444 with 240s will do that all day long imo. (around 48 gr of 4198 with a 240 A Frame)

Lol, no doubt some marketing genius got carried away with that statement. Probably heard something at the water cooler and ran with it.

Even so, it’s rarely fair to compare factory loads of one cartridge to hand loads of another. It just fans the flames.

Here’s a decent article that more realistically discusses the practical use for this cartridge:

.350 Legend Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know - Guns and Ammo

The Winchester .350 Legend straight-wall cartridge is ideally suited for hunting hogs and deer; here's everything you need to know to make it work for you.

www.gunsandammo.com

Of course it’s attractive to me because it all fits nicely in a small frame AR.

 

[lash]

@lash
This is the article that i was reading when this question came up, I found it interesting.

What's Going On With .350 Legend? - The Truth About Guns

I’ve been asked a lot about the new .350 Legend cartridge, the round that’s set to take on the .450 Bushmaster in the straight-wall legal midwest woods. The .350 Legend has a number of great advantages, and it’s gotten a very positive reception. But there are questions about the cartridge that...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Good article that explains your concerns. I hadn’t seen or heard that angle yet and it is a valid concern.

This article, that I just linked above discusses the manufacturing reasons behind the bullet size choice:

.350 Legend Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know - Guns and Ammo

The Winchester .350 Legend straight-wall cartridge is ideally suited for hunting hogs and deer; here's everything you need to know to make it work for you.

www.gunsandammo.com

In essence, it was done to make best use of existing high volume production machinery already in place (.223 based cases and 9mm bullet making equipment). This ensured that the ammo would be low cost. I’ve already seen ads for $15/box.

 

[Niles Coyote]

On a different note, I picked up a 16" Ruger American and got 2452fps with hornady 170 SP bullets and 25.24 grains of Lil Gun in Starline brass. It's to soon to say that is a good node but my groups were suggesting it.

 

[Dewey7271]

Lol, no doubt some marketing genius got carried away with that statement. Probably heard something at the water cooler and ran with it.

Even so, it’s rarely fair to compare factory loads of one cartridge to hand loads of another. It just fans the flames.

Here’s a decent article that more realistically discusses the practical use for this cartridge:

.350 Legend Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know - Guns and Ammo

The Winchester .350 Legend straight-wall cartridge is ideally suited for hunting hogs and deer; here's everything you need to know to make it work for you.

www.gunsandammo.com

Of course it’s attractive to me because it all fits nicely in a small frame AR.

Thanks for the link and good point on factory vs handloads. Just really like my 444. Guess I got carried away.

 

[hankpac]

When I saw this round introduced, I immediately thought of my Contender pIstol. A 14 inch Hunter or a 15 inch in my encore would be a right handy barrel to try out.

 

[lash]

When I saw this round introduced, I immediately thought of my Contender pIstol. A 14 inch Hunter or a 15 inch in my encore would be a right handy barrel to try out.

I like the way that you think.

 

[Old enough to know better]

When I saw this round introduced, I immediately thought of my Contender pIstol. A 14 inch Hunter or a 15 inch in my encore would be a right handy barrel to try out.
[/QUOTE
Where can you get a barrel in 350 at for a t/c encore

 

[Old enough to know better]

When I saw this round introduced, I immediately thought of my Contender pIstol. A 14 incencore would be a right handy barrel to try out.
[/QUOTE
Where can you get barrel in 350 at for a t/c encore

 

[hankpac]

Unknown, at this point, merely thinking this would lend itself nicely. I have an inquiry pending at Match Grade Machining. They have 20" barrels already, but I am looking for a 15".

 

[hic28]

Also, fastest straight walled? I only see 2325 on expanding bullets in factory loads. The 444 with 240s will do that all day long imo. (around 48 gr of 4198 with a 240 A Frame)

probably just claiming it based on factory loading.

I used to push 230gr JHP at 3k out of my 450 bushmaster.

 

[Old enough to know better]

i am running a cva scout in 300 bo for deer in Illinois wanting to go to a encore so I can switch barrels out tc doesn’t have a lot to pick from on the website

 

[hankpac]

i am running a cva scout in 300 bo for deer in Illinois wanting to go to a encore so I can switch barrels out tc doesn’t have a lot to pick from on the website

You have to look at Custom shops, for barrels. Still reasonable. google is your friend.
Just heard from Match Grade Machining. approx 450.00 for a 15" Encore Barrel with Hunter profile: ie, the heay barrel, with muzzle brake. No sights, tapped for Contender type scope mount. Blue.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Guess I should post over here as well. I got a 16 inch 350 legend bolt gun. Did some test runs on some factory ammo today

@HolyCity73 speed tests in 16 inch 350 legend post from a few days ago. Sorry it took so long had to get a new chronograph, I shot my other one in the face with a 22 Nosler. Little gun shoots quick for what it is. Was shooting at an old propane tank. The big hole in the middle is the group and the back side is Swiss cheese. I tried to find some bullet fragments or parts but most were to small to pick up.

145 FMJ
1-2196
2-2203
3-2210
4-2195
5-2211
AVG- 2203
SD- 7
ES- 16

150 Extreme Point(one fail to fire think it was to short for the chamber. Was getting light strike on primer. All other rounds fired
1-2285
2-2272
3-2254
4-2259
5-2245
AVG- 2263
SD- 15
ES-40

180 Power Shock
1-2115
2-2130
3-2105
4-2134
5-2119
AVG-2118
SD-10
ES-29View attachment 7188208View attachment 7188209View attachment 7188210

 

[lash]

Guess I should post over here as well. I got a 16 inch 350 legend bolt gun. Did some test runs on some factory ammo today

What powder(s) and loads?

 

[roostercogburn98]

What powder(s) and loads?

These were all factory loads. I am brass gathering and seeing how the factory stuff runs as a reference if that makes sense. 145FMJ and 150 Extreme Point were Winchester and the 180 Power Point was Federal. Guns is
16 in KAK 1:14 remage
Rem700 virgin untouched action
MDT HS3 and standard Magpul furniture
EGW bass and US Optics ST10 glass

 

[lash]

Ah okay. That makes sense.
Thanks

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm surprised this cartridge isn't getting much interest from AR guys. It seems like 300 Blackouts big brother to me.

 

[roostercogburn98]

@lash will get to reloading soon I hope

 

[lash]

I'm surprised this cartridge isn't getting much interest from AR guys. It seems like 300 Blackouts big brother to me.

Same to me. I am hoping to build one next year. Something about it just feels right to me.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Currently looking for a short barrel to put an upper together and run on one of my sbr lowers. Probably 10.5-12 inch range and see how it adds up

 

[Jthomas218]

Thank you for the explanation...

Hobo

To me it doesn’t make sense to get this round ... the 450 BM would be much better if your state allows it . I have a 450 and the recoil isn’t as bad as everyone thinks

 

[lash]

To me it doesn’t make sense to get this round ... the 450 BM would be much better if your state allows it . I have a 450 and the recoil isn’t as bad as everyone thinks

To each their own. That’s why there are hundreds of different calibers.

However, speaking of recoil, the claim for the 350 Legend is that recoil is less than .223. I’ll have to experience that for myself to believe it, but it indicates to me that it might be a good round to start kids on.

 

[Niles Coyote]

I have both the 450 & 350 in 16" Ruger American Ranchs. The 450 has a factory installed brake, the 350 has a factory installed thread protector. Recoil seemed about the same in that configuration... Maybe slightly more for the 450. Now after putting a cheap brake on the 350 it is noticeably less but no where near 223 IMO.

There is a BIG difference in the concussion the shooter experiences between them though.

I use mine to hunt whitetail in a cartridge restricted area of Michigan. 90% of my shots over the last 30 years have been inside 78 yards. I'm confident in using and recommending the 350 for deer inside 200y. Enough so that it has me considering selling off my ruger 450 and 450 AR components. It just suits me and my needs better.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

IMHO, it's a 9mm magnum, loosely designed much along the lines of the .30 Carbine, just 5 cal larger.

That said; it should work nicely as a PC Carbine type round, and I'd be happy to see the Ruger PC Carbine loaded in it.

Outside of the narrower hunting world; there' s probably a market niche out there for such a gun, as well as maybe even one for a handgun version of it. Maybe maybe make it with magazines that interchange, like my Ruger America 9 Pro and Ruger PC Carbine 9.

Greg

 

[TonyTheTiger]

IMHO, it's a 9mm magnum, loosely designed much along the lines of the .30 Carbine, just 5 cal larger.

That said; it should work nicely as a PC Carbine type round, and I'd be happy to see the Ruger PC Carbine loaded in it.

Outside of the narrower hunting world; there' s probably a market niche out there for such a gun, as well as maybe even one for a handgun version of it. Maybe maybe make it with magazines that interchange, like my Ruger America 9 Pro and Ruger PC Carbine 9.

Greg

The Ruger PC is blowback Greg. You might be the only person wanting to light off a 150gr, 2200fps, 55k psi rifle round in a blowback action. Fitting it into a duty sized pistol will be tough also.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The Ruger PC is blowback Greg. You might be the only person wanting to light off a 150gr, 2200fps, 55k psi rifle round in a blowback action. Fitting it into a duty sized pistol will be tough also.

You could go with something like the Sig MCX series that uses a traditional AR style locking bolt instead of blowback.

 

[Niles Coyote]

How about we call it the 9mm maximum super... since it's closest cousin is the 357 maximum. The legend is just a little faster and .002" smaller in diameter.

 

[Old enough to know better]

Has anyone tried the 350 on deer and had luck with it I am curious to know what your thought about it’s performance was and how far you would push it yardage wish as max distance out of a 14 in barrel

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

I really think Winchester missed the boat by not using a standard 5.56 casing. Their larger case base size means you need to use .350 Legend brass. I thing that this will hurt popularity.

Good Luck

Jerry

The 350 Basic has been offered by Starline for a while which should trim down to the .350. Overall I wish they would have made this .357 Magnum length (or even Maximum) but kind of understand why they didn't. I would have really liked to have seen something more like the 357 Rimless Magnum. The reason why is I'd love to get one of my S&W 66es cut for moon clips and have a rifle/handgun pairing. Although I haven't tested it (I'd validate before getting it cut) I think 9mm clips would work for the cut down 5.56 cases. Maybe someone will make a super long cylinder revolver for these rounds or there will be one of those Judge/Governor revolvers chambered for the .350.

Another good choice would have been .358 so you could use 35 Rem bullets. I think this would have opened a lot of doors for reloaders and bullet mold selection. One could probably size down larger bullets, I mean I've done it before with 45-70 bullets for 450BM and it didn't seem to be any drama.

I need to correct myself.....Not that the case was .003'' too short, but rather that because of the bullets that it uses are not actual .357'' bullets but are limited to a maximum of .356''. What does this mean? I suppose because of tolerances you could potentially have bullets that are <.350'' in diameter, making the cartridge illegal. I'm not sure a CO is going to get out his calipers and measure to the 3rd decimal place but it made me think twice. It would be reassuring to see something from the state saying that the cartridge is officially legal to use in our Shotgun Zone area.

I would think if you had .350 in a .356 bore gun you'd notice it based on the huge groups you were shooting and if you were shooting cast you'd really notice the leading.

 

[Old enough to know better]

The 350 Basic has been offered by Starline for a while which should trim down to the .350. Overall I wish they would have made this .357 Magnum length (or even Maximum) but kind of understand why they didn't. I would have really liked to have seen something more like the 357 Rimless Magnum. The reason why is I'd love to get one of my S&W 66es cut for moon clips and have a rifle/handgun pairing. Although I haven't tested it (I'd validate before getting it cut) I think 9mm clips would work for the cut down 5.56 cases. Maybe someone will make a super long cylinder revolver for these rounds or there will be one of those Judge/Governor revolvers chambered for the .350.

Another good choice would have been .358 so you could use 35 Rem bullets. I think this would have opened a lot of doors for reloaders and bullet mold selection. One could probably size down larger bullets, I mean I've done it before with 45-70 bullets for 450BM and it didn't seem to be any drama.



I would think if you had .350 in a .356 bore gun you'd notice it based on the huge groups you were shooting and if you were shooting cast you'd really notice the leading.

You can get a 350 legend in a bfr revolver but it is a custom order I called and talked with them on building one

 

[lash]

The 350 Basic has been offered by Starline for a while which should trim down to the .350. Overall I wish they would have made this .357 Magnum length (or even Maximum) but kind of understand why they didn't. I would have really liked to have seen something more like the 357 Rimless Magnum. The reason why is I'd love to get one of my S&W 66es cut for moon clips and have a rifle/handgun pairing. Although I haven't tested it (I'd validate before getting it cut) I think 9mm clips would work for the cut down 5.56 cases. Maybe someone will make a super long cylinder revolver for these rounds or there will be one of those Judge/Governor revolvers chambered for the .350.

Another good choice would have been .358 so you could use 35 Rem bullets. I think this would have opened a lot of doors for reloaders and bullet mold selection. One could probably size down larger bullets, I mean I've done it before with 45-70 bullets for 450BM and it didn't seem to be any drama.



I would think if you had .350 in a .356 bore gun you'd notice it based on the huge groups you were shooting and if you were shooting cast you'd really notice the leading.

I get what you’re saying, but you they wanted to fit this within certain design parameters. It had to work well in a small frame AR platform, with easily attainable parts (no new bolts etc), it had to meet the size requirements of the various midwestern states that have straight wall cartridge laws in place (length, dia.), it had to have the ballistics required to be used in the relatively short barrels typical of ARs, and the energy necessary to hunt medium sized game like deer and hogs.

All things considered, I think that they did okay.

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

I think they did okay too especially from a factory ammo perspective. As a reloader my perspective is somewhat different than a huge amount of shooters out there and I'm honest about that. I haven't shot one my self (certainly haven't hunted with it) but the people I've read on cast boolits shooting deer with it seem to like it and have had good success with it and the factory loadings.

I have a straight pull AR pistol in .450 Bushmaster I'd be tempted to buy a barrel for 350 in just to have something a bit milder shooting (and more mag capacity.) Then again I'm also of the opinion the last thing I really need is another caliber to load for!

 

[lash]

I think they did okay too especially from a factory ammo perspective. As a reloader my perspective is somewhat different than a huge amount of shooters out there and I'm honest about that. I haven't shot one my self (certainly haven't hunted with it) but the people I've read on cast boolits shooting deer with it seem to like it and have had good success with it and the factory loadings.

I have a straight pull AR pistol in .450 Bushmaster I'd be tempted to buy a barrel for 350 in just to have something a bit milder shooting (and more mag capacity.) Then again I'm also of the opinion the last thing I really need is another caliber to load for!

I don’t yet have one either, due to some current things going on, but am sure that I want an upper at some point.