Range Report 40 Cal Debate

[ArcticLight]

It's going to be interesting to see what comes of this bad guy in Lakewood who walked around with a 40 cal wound in his stomach -
Ed Troyer said he was shot dead center, but clearly missed the heart as he was still alive.

Think he would have died very soon from infection, blood loss but anyone think there may be some inquiry down the road to see why the 40 cal did not perform as well as, IMHO, expected?

Granted we don't have any information yet...except that he lived two days after a point blank shot from a 40 cal. (Best of my knowledge all LE in this state use 40 cal or larger except one deputy who carries a 357 here as he's grandfathered for it).

For me this is curious, in my mind it's similiar to the 9mm debate.


Anyone got any data for the diff between 9mm, 40, and 45 acp?

Say, Federal Hydrashocks or Winchester Rangers?


Again this is only for curiosity, I'm not badmouthing the 40 cal.

 

[i_Adam_i18]

Re: 40 Cal Debate

I had heard he was gutshot (stomach). Which even a 45 would probably not have done the job there. I'm sure over time he would have died from septic shock or possibly blood loss without medical treatment, and I'm sure it hurt pretty good. At least I hope it did.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: 40 Cal Debate

Hate to say it but I think it was just a big bad dude, with adrenaline pumping through his system, and is just one of those cases like 50 cent that multiple well placed shots would be required. Many stories of WWI and WWII of soldiers with limbs blown off still charging ahead even though they are surely seconds from death.
Me? Make mine a .45 because J M Browning didn't make a .46

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: 40 Cal Debate

Yeah, much like the reason the 1911 was invented, maybe this guy was on drugs, but to walk around for 2 days with a bullet in your gut - YIKES.

I had always heard that 20 minutes with a gutshot...

That had to have hurt, someone bandaged him up (She's in jail now)...



My dad did some reading on this, the 357 fared best in what he read, 45ACP next, 10mm, then 40cal and 9mm..

Like shooting my 9mm but I'm stocking up on acp, may take the Kimber out this weekend..

 

[Whiskey 2-1]

Re: 40 Cal Debate

It all depends on where the bullet went....and I mean exatcly where. "Chest" or "gut" really doesnt help. I have seen people take all caliber of rounds to chest, abdomen, pelvis, etc and it just comes down to what the bullet hits when it is passing through. Just 2 nights ago I had 2 guys shot in nearly identicle places in the butt/lower abdomen with a .32 (not anyone's 1st choice for a man-stopper). One was pretty stable and was able to hang out with us for quite awhile awaiting his turn in the OR. The other was trying like hell to climb in a pine box. Millimeters can make a hell of a difference.

Over 8 years seeing gunshot wounds the honest truth is that handgun rounds to anything other than the head do not reliably kill quickly. Sometimes they drop DRFT, but mostly they will live for quite a while even with "center mass hits". Yes, even with the great 45cal. More holes in important places is what you need.

 

[RyanScott]

Re: 40 Cal Debate

From the picture I saw, it appeared to be significantly offcenter and would not have been fatal. .40 isn't a death ray, no handgun is. He would likely have survived a hit there from a .44 Magnum.

For what it is worth I carry a 10mm because 9mm Glocks cut my hand up. When I want a little gun I have a .38 and a Kahr P9. I also have a selection of .45 calibers, because thats what the 1911 comes in. Although the 1911 was designed in a primitive 10mm. Caliber is pretty much the last thing on my mind when selecting a carry weapon.

 

[Billk]

Re: 40 Cal Debate

Several years ago one of our guys center punched a suspect with a .45 and he survived. Of course he got fast medical attention unlike this shithead.

 

[Ed Jacovino]

Re: 40 Cal Debate

40S&W (short & weak)

 

[steve123]

Re: 40 Cal Debate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's going to be interesting to see what comes of this bad guy in Lakewood who walked around with a 40 cal wound in his stomach -
Ed Troyer said he was shot dead center, but clearly missed the heart as he was still alive.

Think he would have died very soon from infection, blood loss but anyone think there may be some inquiry down the road to see why the 40 cal did not perform as well as, IMHO, expected?

Granted we don't have any information yet...except that he lived two days after a point blank shot from a 40 cal. (Best of my knowledge all LE in this state use 40 cal or larger except one deputy who carries a 357 here as he's grandfathered for it).

For me this is curious, in my mind it's similiar to the 9mm debate.


Anyone got any data for the diff between 9mm, 40, and 45 acp?

Say, Federal Hydrashocks or Winchester Rangers?


Again this is only for curiosity, I'm not badmouthing the 40 cal. </div></div>

Was a fmj used or some kind of hollow point?

Steve

 

[mgd45]

Re: 40 Cal Debate

Just like most stories you read about.....the scumbag always seems to survive the gunshot when the LEO doesn't. Placement is the key here.....,

In a jurisdiction not far from where I work a drug dealer was shot right through the heart with a .45 from an Officer & he lived for quite a while. Definitly long enough to have been a threat for a while.....Ya just never know what the human body will take...