Sidearms & Scatterguns 40 caliber, like or don't like

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snipe10

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May 10, 2010
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#1
I brought home a new Sig 40 cal P226 today as I had some extra credit at a store and have lots of 9's and 45's. How many of you carry and shoot a 40 cal on a regular basis? It seems it's the forgotten caliber. My buddy says it's because the govt. is buying up all the 40 cal ammo, ha ha

What do you think? Do you like 40 cal?
 
#2
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I don't like it. The recoil impulse just bothers me. Mind you, my favorite cartridge is 10mm...so it's not that the recoil of 40 is "too strong", it's just the delivery. It's snappy.

That said, when loaded to IDPA/IPSC levels, it's a joy.

Also, its performance on bad guys is excellent. However, I'll choose the 357sig for a CC cartridge over the 40, because the recoil is a lot smoother.

I wouldn't consider 40 a "forgotten" cartridge, as it isn't old enough to have been popular, then forgotten. It has been, and continues to be wildly popular - and for good reason. It performs great.
 
#3
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I didn't go down the .40 caliber route simply it would another caliber I would have to buy for. Stayed with my 9mm and .45.

Cut
 
#4
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

im still a 45 guy. the 40 is nice cause you can carry more ammo and its not as much recoil as the 45 but when a 45 starts shooting its got a louder bark, and a bit more damage on target. plus i just think its a blast to shoot!
 
#5
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

Yea I didn't want to start buying for another caliber either but a 170 or 180 grain round is kind of appealing. I also think I need to at least have one so I'll stick it in the safe for now and sleep on it.
 
#6
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I shoot 180 pills at 720fps out of my Glock 35, the recoil is less than Win White Box 115 9mm ammo out of my brothers Glock 34, I don't like shooting full power 40 but the minor PF ammo is like cheating because the slide only moves back and forth, zero rise.
 
#7
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I tried it in several platforms (HK USP, SIG229, CZ75B), just didn't' like it. Accuracy, "authority" (well, call it "power factor," then), just didn't work for me.

I like .45 acp. Own a dozen of various styles and makes, usually carry SIG 229 in 357 SIG if not a .45.

.40 just seems like too much of a compromise in downsizing a 10 mm round and barely a step up from a 9mm +P. Not enough reason to keep the gun and/or round.

Another thing that really gets my goat about it is how many times .40 S&W cases have gotten stuck inside .45 ACP cases which fucks up my reloading press (Dillon 650) knocking the feed tube out of place and scattering cases all over the place while the shell case feeder just keeps dropping more of them. I meticulously pick out .40 cal cases during cleaning and prep and with a mad gleam in my eye, unceremoniously dump 'em in my recycling bin.

YMMV.
 
#8
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I love my .40's!!! (doesn't look like there's very many of us). I have a Glock 23C and a Sig P229, both .40 and I enjoy shooting both.

I can understand the difference in recoil impulse that would push people away. I've been on the fence with a .45 but my reloads are shooting great, and I've put tons of trigger time on .40, so I've sort of forced the recoil into a non-issue.

I've used the glock for a few local shooting events and it's treated me well. The Sig has sat as a safe queen as of recent but nonetheless I still enjoy shooting it.
 
#9
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I currently have two of them

Xd-40 4" and a Keltec p-40.

the XD is a joy to shoot. The Springfield platform handles the recoil well and its an excelent double tap gun. The Keltec on the other hand is downright dirty to lay on someone as their first expierence with a .40. I still run 2-3 mags through it when i'm at the range - but after that i go back to my XD because i'm sick of being beat up by the keltec LOL.
 
#10
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I've had 4 of them, 2 Sig 226's a 239, and a Kahr K40. Still Ave one of the 226 and the K40. Standard fodder is 165 Golden Saber. Also run 2 10mm on 1911's and a single 9mm 226.
 
#11
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't go down the .40 caliber route simply it would another caliber I would have to buy for. Stayed with my 9mm and .45. </div></div>

This. I already have pistols in 9mm and .45ACP, so I see no need for an in between cartridge. Also, like turbo54, I'm not particularly sensitive to recoil, but I find the .40S&W to be a bit uncomfortable to shoot.

I wouldn't call the cartridge obsolete by any means, but I'm not sure that it really has any solid advantage over modern 9mm ammo.
 
#12
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I wouldn't call the cartridge obsolete by any means, but I'm not sure that it really has any solid advantage over modern 9mm ammo. </div></div>

Excellent point. The modern 9mm ammo is fucking incredible. 40 really only has a 30-40ftlb advantage over the 9mm, with equal barrel lengths. Amazing how different the recoil is, for such similar energy levels.
 
#13
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

+1

with modern PD grade ammo in play - 9/40/45 all pretty much will produce the same result - lots of damage in the wound channel and good energy transfer. it almost comes down to capacity and there the 9mm really shines.

dont think i havent considered a 9mm conversion barrel for my xd for that very reason. 17 rounds of 9mm will still do more damage than 13 rounds of .40.
 
#14
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I don't know that I have found a .40 caliber pistol with factory ammo that wasn't all steel that shot comfortably. Ironically enough, I've found every 10mm I've ever shot to be more pleasant than .40s. Also, if you reload and don't care for any kind of power factor (ie for competition, training ammo to match carry ammo, etc), lightly loaded .40s are pretty nice to shoot.
 
#15
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

i see the 45 as a better bullet all the way around. the 9mm tends to shoot through things. i mean it usually will end up going threw a target and carrying some energy beyond the target. when the slow 45 hits it tends to stop fast putting all the energy into the target
 
#18
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

i had an XD in 40 that i sold to my dad, we both love it. my everyday carry is a Kahr cw40. I love it. It is snappy, but, it isn't unmanageable. I still carry my 1911 from time to time. I love the 45 and the 40. I might get a 9 at some point just for affordability and plinking, but, i will always carry a 40 or a 45. i group about the same with both.
 
#19
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I hated it with a passion. First pistol I ever bought was a subcompact XD .40. I'm not a small person but I could never get used to the snappy feel. Also, 9mm is much cheaper to practice with and that is going to count for a lot more in a gun fight. Shot placement over caliber all day long.
 
#20
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I use my .40 over a 45 and a 9 for duty and here is my reasoning besides mag capacity. If you look at the Winchester Ranger line with the 165g pill you actually have 30 FPE advantage over the 45 with the 230 and the 40 carries more energy and shoots flater. At 100 yards it still has 350+ FPE. I dont have access to a carbine and I like the fact that I have some extended range. The Ranger ammo was selected for auto glass penetration which could come in very handy. The 40 isnt as short and weak as most think. It isnt an in between, its an advantage in many respects.
 
#21
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I run my M&P 40 in USPSA with federal champion as of late (haven't been able to reload lately) and while i didn't like it at first i've grown very fond of it. While the only two handguns i own as of now are a glock 21 and M&P 40. The M&P 40 fits me better, so i tend to shoot it better. I'm sure if i was shooting a M&P45 i would think differently. On my glock though, the 45 has more muzzle flip to me, while it's cumbersome i can't seem to keep it down. My 40 however is snappy but seems to have less muzzle rise and more of a straight jolt back.
 
#22
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I've worked on pepole shot with 9mm, 40sw and 45acp and by far the worst wounds I've seen have been by the 40..I own all three cals and I tend to carry and shoot my 40 more...Its all what u get comfortable with..How ever my comp gun is a glock 17L bc ammo is cheap and easy to find.
 
#24
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I had 2 G22's and sold them both. The recoil was very snappy and for me the follow up shot or a double tap was not very controllable for me. I switched to a G21 and love it. Follow up's and double taps are spot on.

The .40 is a good round. Use what you're comfortable with.
 
#25
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

have you ever worked on three different people that got shot by the same brand ammo in 9mm 40sw and 45acp? your thoughts might be different
 
#26
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I've never liked .40, but I shoot it because I have to in USPSA Limited. If it wasn't for competition, I'd never shoot anything but 9mm. And I don't carry anything that isn't a 9mm or .38 Special. Capacity trumps every time for me (then again, i don't own any double stack carry guns!)
 
#27
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I've never liked it. I shoot 9mm with some .45 ACP for nostalgia.

I have, however, been considering it because, while wound channels look similar with quality ammo in all relevant handgun calibers, .40 S&W retains the largest percentage of it's weight through barriers and I've been thinking that the skull and ribs DO count as barriers to get into that tissue that 9mm and .45 ACP make such comparable wound channels through. Just food for thought.

I've killed animals with all of the calibers, though, and haven't seen a difference. Careful shot placement on an animal in a hunting or slaughter situation, however, is different than shooting at close quarters (and probably low light) in desperation. Shot placement does, indeed, trump all, but it isn't always that easy to place those shots. Again, food for thought.
 
#29
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I wouldn't call the cartridge obsolete by any means, but I'm not sure that it really has any solid advantage over modern 9mm ammo. </div></div>

Excellent point. The modern 9mm ammo is fucking incredible. 40 really only has a 30-40ftlb advantage over the 9mm, with equal barrel lengths. Amazing how different the recoil is, for such similar energy levels. </div></div>

You guys are obviously not in tune with the fact that the 40S&W is the ONLY round that was found to penetrate automobile windshields (sarcasm).

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard some internet commando that still wasn't old enough to shave tell me that little nugget.
The 40S&W has had a place for me in USPSA Limited for many years. For carry I will always choose either my 1911 45 or my S&W Shield 9mm.
 
#30
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

Nice thing about .400" bullets is VERSATILITY. From 130gr to 220gr, you can have little speed demons or fat pills with huge sectional density...all in the "manageable recoil" realm.

Trouble with 40SW is the horsepower for the 180+ bullets...

Enter the 10mm, 400corbon, 41mag etc etc.
 
#31
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I like .40s just fine. I don't find the recoil as snappy as others, and if you reload, you can tame it as much as you want. I think the trick with the 40S&W is simply what pistol you've got it in, and how well you like the way that pistol shoots for you.

I honestly think the Glock .23 is one of the best guns going. You've got a .40 for every day carry, then you get a KKM precision barrel to have a 9mm, and then the Advantage Arms conversion kit for .22LR practice. Three pistols in one great gun depending on what ammo you've got sitting around. Win win win.

Incidentally, I also bought a Sig 2340 (polymer frame) back in the day, and after putting thousands of rounds through it, still love the pistol. Great trigger, recoil ain't bad, and it shoots really damn straight.
 
#32
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I carry a 40 M&P Compact with an IWB holster everyday and love it, it is a great fit and the weight is just right.
I have a 9 and 45 also and out of the 3 I go for the 40 every time.
The price to reload is alittle bit more than a 9 but for the extra knock down power and the feel of the gun I say it is one of the best SD out there
 
#33
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I have

. 38, .357,.40,45,9mm, .380, and now a 10mm

It seams like when ever I go to the range I just grab the 1911. Some times I have to make the conscious decision to grab a diffrent caliber I like them all. What it comes down to for me is comfort how the whepon fits me and how efficient I can be with it. The 1911 just fits my big meaty hands and feels good. That's what I want if it ever comes down to me needing it

I have a .40 witness and I have to say that is a very accurate gun out of the box. Surprisingly so. Mine is the metal frame so it has some weight to it. That makes it not so nice to carry. But fun and accurate to shoot. I did just sell my sig .40 I just did not like the way it felt.
 
#34
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I carry a G27 or G29 mostly, and I have a 1006. I LOVE the 10mm, it is by and far my favorite pistol round. The .40 is more compact because it fits in a 9mm frame, it is more snappy like said above, and you can't load a very broad range of loads like you can the 10mm. In fact, loading .40 at all is kind of hairy, I only load target loads in it. For carry, I use the 165gr. Win. T-Series. They are the best I can get close by, but I'd prefer Gold Dots (just based on quality control).

Speaking of recoil, my friends 16yo daughter went shooting with us one day. She hated that G27, put it right down. Said it was too snappy with target loads. So she started shooting the G29 --with significantly more powerful loads-- and shot them all up. She actually shot up all my ammo that day, but she enjoyed it and I think we may have a convert.

The 10mm G29 is more accurate than the G27. Every single time. But the G27 is plenty accurate for a defensive pistol. I would recommend that in .40 you use the 155 or 165 grain bullets; the 165's were made specifically for it. They are supposed to have the best terminal performance, the .40 can't drive the 180's fast enough to open up well, especially with the short barrel. 10mm doesn't have that problem, I've clocked 180's going 1350+ from the 1006.

10mm, now THAT is the forgotten round! You either love it or hate it, just like Neil Diamond.
 
#35
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bob munden 45lc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have you ever worked on three different people that got shot by the same brand ammo in 9mm 40sw and 45acp? your thoughts might be different</div></div>

I'd wager the difference would be insignificant, provided they were all HP. I'd bet the calibre has a lot more to do with wound signature than would brand difference.

I read a post by a guy that worked in a morgue in Atlanta. He said the same thing, that the .40 was present in most cadavers. He mentioned most of them were killed by cops, as that was their round, and he had no idea what happened if they lived, he only got the stiffs.

He said he used to carry a .45 too, but after that he jumped on the .40 bandwagon.

I seriously doubt all that matters though. The goal is to perforate by means of crush wound, organ or nerve tissues in the body. So penetration is most important, you need to get there. Second is diameter, simply because a 9mm grazing an artery may not do anything, but a .45 in the same spot would have been fatal.

I know anatomy pretty well, and I load my own, so I'm pretty comfortable with all those calibres.

Really, the selection should come down to what you feel most comfortable with and practice with. Funny, had you asked me what would work best for that girl before we went shooting, I probably would have said 9mm and not 10mm or .40. But turns out, she likes the slow shove of 200gr. heavy bullets and not the snap of faster, lighter ones. My wife, who is recoil sensitive, she agreed. But she's a wheelgun girl and likes her Smith 649 in .357.
 
#36
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I love the 40 SW, you can put a lot of them in a pistol, it quicks a little more than a 9mm, hits almost like a 45 and brass is everywhere on the ground at th eranges and they just about give it away so brass supplies are abundant. It is accurate enough for what i do with it and fairly inexpensive to load in mass quantities.
What's not to like.
 
#37
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I had a G23 for a few years, it was my first Glock, thought it was a bit snappy. Got a G22 a couple years ago and love it. The only thing I don't like about the 40 is the price of ammo, that's why I will be picking up another Glock in 9mm. So far as recoil issues, don't have any problem and niether does my wife. She fell in love with my 22 the first time she shot it, so its her pistol now.
 
#38
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

Admittedly I'm new to serious handgun shooting. And don't know what a handgun should shoot like. One trip to the range with a knowledgeable handgun person would probably change my thinking.

Three LEO told me the best self defense round was the .40 S&W.

I have the Beretta PX4 Storm Type F Full size in 9MM, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and the Beretta PX4 Storm Type F Sub Compact in.40 S&W.

I use Winchester white box in all of them. All three have a different recoil. The .40 S&W is not that much different than the other two.

I chose the .40 S&W for my CCW. I like the round.
 
#39
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

The .40 S&W is a very good round that is in my opinion a compromise best suited to fit the competing interests in a carry / duty round

On the 9mm, the plus was lots of capacity, light ammo
The minus was not as much stopping power mass

On the .45, the plus was lots of stopping power mass
The minus was not as much capacity, heavy ammo

On the 10mm the plus was lots of both capacity and tons of stopping power.
The minus was a harsh recoil & less follow up control for weaker people.

So enter the .40 S&W, it combined the higher capacity like a 10mm and close to a 9mm, along with more stopping power than a 9mm & the ability to carry large amounts of ammo without too much weight.

It's not a perfect round and is probably not the best round to shoot all day at the range with (the 9mm or .45 are way better)

But for a self defense round if you want high capacity and a lot of stopping power, it works very well. Then when you go to the range you can put some 165gr rounds in it to tame the snappy recoil and do pretty good with it.

That being said, the .40 S&W is not well suited to ultra compact pistols as it will tend to feel quite uncomfortable shooting any large amount of rounds at the range. I'm very used to .40 S&W in full sized / mid sized guns, but have always hated it in subcompacts.
 
#41
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

all i know is practice! when you practice with whatever you want to shoot you will get good at poi and follow up shots, with that said thats why i shoot the 45, after practicing for many years i can put a couple follow up shots right on the money, if you practiced with the 50 smith and wesson eventually you would be able to get good follow up shots with that too, so if you want the best for conceal carry you would shoot a 45 and practice alot with it. you will be able to get a 2nd 3rd 4th 5th round on target just as fast as baby calibers but do a little more damage when they impact. especially if you can get a couple 45 close to the same impact point that threat will go down and most likely stay there. what most people dont know is its not the 1st or 2nd shot that will get the threat its multiple shots, but the larger the caliber the better the chances, and you dont shoot and see what happens you keep shooting till you know the threat is a threat no more
 
#42
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The .40 S&W is a very good round that is in my opinion a compromise best suited to fit the competing interests in a carry / duty round

On the 9mm, the plus was lots of capacity, light ammo
The minus was not as much stopping power mass

On the .45, the plus was lots of stopping power mass
The minus was not as much capacity, heavy ammo

On the 10mm the plus was lots of both capacity and tons of stopping power.
The minus was a harsh recoil & less follow up control for weaker people.

So enter the .40 S&W, it combined the higher capacity like a 10mm and close to a 9mm, along with more stopping power than a 9mm & the ability to carry large amounts of ammo without too much weight.

It's not a perfect round and is probably not the best round to shoot all day at the range with (the 9mm or .45 are way better)

But for a self defense round if you want high capacity and a lot of stopping power, it works very well. Then when you go to the range you can put some 165gr rounds in it to tame the snappy recoil and do pretty good with it.

That being said, the .40 S&W is not well suited to ultra compact pistols as it will tend to feel quite uncomfortable shooting any large amount of rounds at the range. I'm very used to .40 S&W in full sized / mid sized guns, but have always hated it in subcompacts. </div></div>

+1 what he said!! Nicely worded!
 
#43
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

only bad thing about .40 cal is buying ammo for it. I like to shoot so i shoot a 9mm and load for it. never been in a gun fight with anything other than a piece if steal or cardboard. and niether has ever shot back, yet! they make +p+ corbons now so i dont think anyone is under gunned with a 9 for self defense. If perfer to carry a 40 practice with a 40. is my only advise..

arborpro
 
#44
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bob munden 45lc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... if you want the best for conceal carry you would shoot a 45 and practice alot with it. you will be able to get a 2nd 3rd 4th 5th round on target just as fast as baby calibers but do a little more damage when they impact. especially if you can get a couple 45 close to the same impact point that threat will go down and most likely stay there.</div></div>

Except that this is 100% bullshit. They don't do any more damage at all, and so all you're doing is trading off capacity for no significant benefit.
 
#46
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

downzero has just figured out everyones problem here! thanks! we should all carry .22s they have the most capacity, thanks for the great advice, you should submit that claim to all the agencies in the world! im sure everyone now feels better and there will be no more topics on ammo!
 
#47
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I guess I am the one percent...

Until last year my duty side arm, ccw and IPSC gun were all 40cal. unfortunately my dept. switched to 45 ACP in the Glock SF flavor... still wish I had my 40 back for duty.

I do feel the 40 is the third best cartridge to take into a potential conflict with the 10mm taking first followed by the 357sig but only when they are loaded for velocity with mid to light weight bullets like 135-140 grain in the 40/10mm and 115g in the 357 sig and/or +P+ 9mm.

I have shot too many deer with conventional handguns and muzzleloader/black powder handguns over the years to believe the damage from a round that impacts at subsonic velocity (regardless if it’s a .35cal to .50cal) is somehow better than a bullet that enters above the speed of sound in that same .35-.50cal. The difference I have seen again and again is mostly intact organs except along the bullet path vs. strawberry goo from the diaphragm forward. Their reaction at impact varies as well... from walking and/or trotting 20-50 yards before succumbing or dropping within 2-6 paces form the impact location. Deer may not have equal reactions compared to the two legged predators but they make pretty convincing test subjects.
 
#48
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bob munden 45lc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">downzero has just figured out everyones problem here! thanks! we should all carry .22s they have the most capacity, thanks for the great advice, you should submit that claim to all the agencies in the world! im sure everyone now feels better and there will be no more topics on ammo! </div></div>

It might not be such a bad idea for us all to carry FN five seven's
 
#49
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bob munden 45lc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">downzero has just figured out everyones problem here! thanks! we should all carry .22s they have the most capacity, thanks for the great advice, you should submit that claim to all the agencies in the world! im sure everyone now feels better and there will be no more topics on ammo! </div></div>

my .40 actually has a higher capacity than either of the .22 pistols ive owned. so I'll just stick with my .40acp. at least it starts with .4
smile.gif



although if it was a choice between .22 and nothing, give me the .22 ANY day but thats WAY off topic
smile.gif
 
#50
Re: 40 caliber, like or don't like

I had a few and sold them all to consolidate calibers. I love 9 and 45 so that is what I stick with. I do have 1 .40 left and it is my USPSA gun (G35). I like the .40 for this b/c I can load it down and still have that big 180gr bullet hitting the steel to knock it over. With 9mm and 147's I've seen off center hits not drop steel. So to me it's great for comps.. but like others have said, the snappy recoil of standard and defensive rounds is less than optimal for follow-up shots as a CCW or defensive weapon. Plus it's a compromise round in my mind with all the great defensive rounds made in 9mm. I'd rather have lots of 9mm rounds or just a few big hammers in the 45.
 
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