.408 primer and reloading question...

F

fracmeister

Private
Minuteman
Nov 15, 2005
39
0
Texas
www.troop1960.com
#1
Forgive my ignorance as I am just getting started on the .408

Would I use the large rifle magnum primers for this round? I just use large rifle for my other bullets (.308, .260) but I am assuming I need to step up to the magnum primers (which I have on hand).
 
#4
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

Just buy large rifle magnum, don't split them your wasting all the resources you load into large rifle primed cases.
 
#5
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

Federal 215 MAG primers or Hotter ONLY !!!!

I have had Hang-Fires and Mis-Fires with CCI-250 and REM 9 1/2 Primers using R-25 powder.

A Mis-fire in a .408 CT. will definately get your attention, As you will "after safe wait time" have to open the bolt and remove the cart.

The question is always there, is this round a dud or is it cooking.
 
#6
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1000 YDS. IS FUN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Federal 215 MAG primers or Hotter ONLY !!!!

I have had Hang-Fires and Mis-Fires with CCI-250 and REM 9 1/2 Primers using R-25 powder.

A Mis-fire in a .408 CT. will definately get your attention, As you will "after safe wait time" have to open the bolt and remove the cart.

The question is always there, is this round a dud or is it cooking.
</div></div>

Well thats kinda strange. Have been using them cci-250's for over a year and never had a problem. I was using retumbo and rl-25.
 
#7
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

1000 yds. is fun:

I 2d what NotAGuru said. I'd like an explaination of why CCI and Rem. Mag. primeers will hang/missfire on Rel-25. As Bobby said, use of the slower burning Retumbo is common.

Also, and maybe most importantly: What experiance do you have with the 408CT??? Have you even shot one??? Why "will definately get your attention" on a hang/miss fire?. Have you ever had one, if you've shot it???

Fill out your profile. Then...there are several on this board that will take you to school.....

djd
 
#8
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

Yes, I own a Windrunner M-96, with both .408 CT and .338 lapua barrels

I was using CCI-250 primers, with 120 Gn. Reloader-25 in the .408 and 91.4 Gn. Reloader-25 in the .338

Had 2 Hang fires in the .338 then 1 misfire in the .408, The primer had fired in the .408 but failed to ignite the powder.

I talked with both CCI and Remington, they both recommended I change to federal 215 primers, which are hotter, for the large volume and type of powder I am using.

I have also sent powder samples of the lot I was using to Alliant, as they requested, for testing.

As far as the danger of a misfire.

Years ago a shooter at the range I was at had a misfire--He waited at least 5 minutes before opening the bolt, removed the round and placed it in a steel pipe with pressure relief holes he had built.

Well about 30 seconds later the round went off. I will NEVER forget it. This is why, in my opinion, a misfire should always get your attention and be treated as a extreme danger.

This is only the 2nd misfire I have had in 40+ years of shooting and reloading, the other was in my .375 H&H Mag., early in my reloading, somehow I had contaminated the primer as it failed fire, firing pin strike was perfect and plenty deep. Since then I have never touched a primer with my hands.
 
#9
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">120 Gn. Reloader-25 in the .408 </div></div>

This is a very light load.
 
#11
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

Still breaking in the barrel, Shooting the 420 Gn. aluminum tip coper jacketed projectiles .060 off rifling.

When broken in I will start working up loads for the Lehigh brass 385 Gn. 983 BC projectile starting at 123 gn. 2800 Minimum Fps. working toward 130 Gn. 2950 Fps.

Some where in that range I will find the sweet spot. Then I will move the seating depth + or - a few thousands to fine tune it.

The 120 Gn. load is producing almost 2650 Fps. in my windrunner. Velocity is not all it is cracked up to be, accuracy is more important.

For example my off the shelf 700P--.308, 2635 Fps. 175 Gn. SMK. 5 shots can be covered with a dime at 100 yds, and and on a good day for me will hold a 10 inch group at 1000 yds.

The load makes the shot not just the gun.
 
#12
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Velocity is not all it is cracked up to be, accuracy is more important.</div></div>

That's a pretty broad statement, a lot depends on application and capability of the cartridge. With this particular bullet design, out to 2000 yards i won't argue with you. My best three shot groups .177, .191 were 2620 to 2640 FPS. But you are losing lots of range off the end.
 
#13
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

Mr 1k. You seem to be a non amature but i think your in need of some help. We all know the dangers of a misfire. Because you loaded these rounds down that extra 8 grains or so your possibly creating space between your powder and primer. Thats what will cause you so much problem. Switch to a heavier powder like 170 or retumbo if you are going to slow it down so much. If your .06" off the lands your in a dead zone. I have seen very few rifles shoot well there. You need to be between .01" into the lands to .04" off if you want this thing to shoot well. Yes your gun may like .06" off but i highly doubt it. I dont know how you would be getting those velocity's with that load.
 
#14
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

Reloader-25:
.408--120 Gn, is 92.9% fill
.338--91.4 Gn. is 99.1% fill.

In the .408--130.5 GN. (103.7% fill) with the lehigh 385 Gn. cnc Brass solid at .060 off the rifling should have a chamber pressurs of 62,300 PSI. which is 98% of max pressure (CIP 63,817 PSI).

I hope I don't have to go that high to get the accuracy I want, brass life will be one or two reloads.
 
#15
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

Ok you seem to be using data off of a reloading program because the real world data on this is different. Your numbers on the lehighs if off. 135 grains of rl-25 should be able to be pushed without problems. I use 131 grains of rl25 in the 408 running 419 grain solids right at 3000 fps. I backed it off to 129.5 and it gave me the best accuracy with it being just about 2900 fps.
 
#16
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

Yes, I am using <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Quick Load </span></span>for the .408 to help me in load development, ( there is almost no data for the .408 CT) and it is the most complete program I have been able to find. It has worked very well with my .308 and .338 lapua when I moved beyond the max load recomendations in the manuals by sierra, hornady, etc.

Keary Ritchie, (owner, Vigilance Rifles), told me their standard working load for his rifle and his dads, Bill Ritchie (EDM Arms), with both the "419 and the 420 projectiles was 125 Gn. of R-25, Fed 215 primers, projectile seated .060 off the rifling. But I should drop to 120 Gn. and work up to a absolute max of 131 Gn. When I find the sweet spot, as each rifle is different, then adjust the seating depth to fine tune it".

I do have a couple of boxes of Chey Tac factory loads, 128.5 Gn. R-25, 419 Gn. Jamison solids ogive seated at 3.030, (entire bearing surface is in the case), OAL 4.305 +/- .005. this load is .151 off the rifling in my M-96.

They also offer a 131.5 Gn. military load but recomended the lighter load if I wanted to be able to re-use the brass.(Terri Shoup at chey tac)

I'm not an expert by a long shot but I try to learn as much as possible from as many sources avaliable and apply it to the problem I am working on.

If you would care to, I would appreciate any data you have for the .408 and how deep you are seating the projectile (ogive depth if possible), are you neck sizing or full length sizing.
 
#17
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1000 YDS. IS FUN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I do have a couple of boxes of Chey Tac factory loads, 128.5 Gn. R-25, 419 Gn. Jamison solids ogive seated at 3.030, (entire bearing surface is in the case), OAL 4.305 +/- .005. this load is .151 off the rifling in my M-96.

</div></div>

You must have a mis print there because 3.03 is the oal of th case.

If you are hand loading the solids i am using 132 grains of retumbo and seating the bullets at .01" off the lands. For the RL-25 its so off the wall different from lot to lot i suggest you stay away from it. I was loading 128.5 grains to get my best accuracy node and was closer to .02" off. If you want any more info you can contact me. Info is in my profile.
 
#18
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lrplinker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I picked up the Remington 9-1/2 for large rifle and winchesters for the large magnum today at Carter's country in Houston at 3 and 4$ PER 100! Yiikes. Only got 300 of each.

Thanks </div></div>

Lucky You!

It's getting better.
 
#19
Re: .408 primer and reloading question...

Oh man, don't make me start testing with Retumbo now
wink.gif
 
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