Range Report 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

[XTR]

I've been burning powder in my new 1885 highwall. (24" barrel) I'm seeing some things at the range and I am looking for feedback from anyone else who has worked up loads for the 45-70, particularly with cast boolits.


I'm working on loads using 350gn bullets both cast and jacketed and for cast 405s. observations so far:

All of Cast boolits shoot left of my jacketed bullets, some more than others.

Shooting the 405s with gas checks over 44gn of Re7 yields 1730FPS and 42gn pushes them at 1678. These are the the most accurate cast load to date. I have one group that is about 2MOA and another that has 4 out of 5 in a 1 inch hole with a flyer 1.5 high and an inch right (not the 5th shot)

I'm guessing it really is ladder test time with these guys and try to see what is actually going on.

Shooting w/o gas checks the cast boolits are all over the place, mostly way left, like 4 to 5 inches left but scattered over the whole range. I've seen this with the 350s and 405s. I am wondering if I am pushing them too fast at 1650 to 1750 with no GCs?

First Group with 350 jacket RNFP. This was the zero for the rest of the groups:

Group with 42gn of RL-7 @ 1650FPS

Two groups with 405gn and 44gn of RL 7

These were not sequential, there were groups with cast boolits in between them.

Best non GC group of the day

45gn of RL7, 350RNFP cast

Any suggestions?

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

Too much speed (pressure) without GC can melt/deform the base of the bullet and cause issues.

I only push the 405 cast to 1300 fps or so, through a Marlin 45-70. Initially had problems with rough throat and heavy leading was making 405s hit sideways at 100 after three or four rounds. I firelapped the bore and that solved the leading issue.

Here's my pre-lapping target. three tight, two loose, then sideways.....yikes.

 

[Red Ryder]

Re: 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

Have you checked over at www.marlinowners.com? I'm sure there are a few 45-70 shooters here but I'm also sure there are A LOT of 45-70 shooters over there.

 

[paul2atlo8]

Re: 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

With my Cowboy Marlin 45-70 I do not shoot cast bullets faster than 1000fps no matter what BHN (lead hardness) do to the fact that pressure and heat distort the base of the bullet,but with the gas checks added I go as fast as can trying to obtain good accuracy.There is a web site that is loaded with information on what you are looking for its called "Beartooth Bullets" Marshall Stanton is very Knowledge and sells cast bullets.

 

[XTR]

Re: 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

Thanks for the info, I've actually posted this over on the shooter forum over on Beartooth too.

 

[PanaDP]

Re: 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

Have you tried any paper patched bullets out of your highwall?

 

[XTR]

Re: 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PanaDP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you tried any paper patched bullets out of your highwall? </div></div>

Not yet, only had it for a week, Christmas present to me.

This one is for hunting. Based on what I've been able to get on the web this one is a "Sporter". It seems to be a part of a limited run of 400 with a 24" barrel and a real recoil pad and not a steel but plate. It handles like a carbine. The rifle is the same length as my hunting buddy's Browning lever action in 450 Marlin, but his has a 20" tube. I just stumbled on it not knowing what was out there. I was looking for a highwall with a barrel shorter than the long 28+ target barrels but longer than the "trapper" with it's 18 or 20 inch barrel.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

I went out with the Creedmoor guys shooting a Creedmoor Match (800, 900 & 1000).

Learned a lot from those guys, As Montana Marine said, you're shooting the cast bullet too fast. I shoot 405, 500 and 535 Grns out of my Browning Highwall.

Got to keep them to between 1200 & 1300. 1100 for the heavier bullets. No gas checks. Use soft lead, hard lead, like wheel weights tend to tumble at range.

Also these guys, (the good ones) dont crimp their bullets. Most have the cases all loaded up and hand seat the bullets just before they stuff them in the rifle.

If you don't want to go to black powder, then try something like 28 grns of 4198 for reduced loads.

BPCR Shooting is a lot of fun, but its a different ball game. Forget all you know about rifle reloading its not the same.

I learned the hard way, if there was a wrong way to shoot those big lead pills, I did it.

 

[noahmercy]

Re: 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

I agree with the above posters...throttle those loads back a little and watch the groups shrink.

A 405 grain bullet with a big meplat doesn't need high velocity to drill completely through a big beasty and wreck a lot of stuff along the way. I run my smokeless 405 grain loads around 1350 fps from my Quigley model Sharps (34" barrel) and groups are spectacularly good out to 400 yards, which is as far as I've shot it seriously. I've had great results with IMR3031, but a lot of experienced 45-70 shooters (a fella' who's won the Quigley Match a few times for one) recommend Accurate 5744 for precision shooting.

As for jacketed bullets, you will need a little more velocity to ensure positive expansion. One thing to watch for is that many 350 grain .458 bullets are designed to expand at 458 Win Mag or 450 Marlin velocities. You may not want to drive them that fast (or maybe you do) due to the action type you're using. Just make sure it is rated for those pressures if you want to go that route.

An alternative is possibly the best jacketed deer bullets ever loaded in the 45-70...the lowly 300 grain hollow point. It is a devastating bullet at low to medium velocities- I've rarely seen deer hit with big magnums go down faster than those walloped with the ol' 300 grain HPs. Badass and relatively inexpensive; you might give them a try.

 

[larbhills]

Re: 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

I had an 1895 45-70 about five years ago. I shot Hornady 350gr. jacketed flat points. The harder I pushed them, the better the groups. If I backed off, the groups fell apart. I tried some 405 hard cast. Same story. I finally traded it. Too much recoil for me.

 

[XTR]

Re: 45-70 behaviors... anyone out there expreienced?

Thanks for the input folks. I've had some inputs on powder so I stopped and picked up a pound of H322 and a 3031 today, I'm doing max middle and low on the Ruger/Highwall table with all 3 and my 350 Jacketed flat nose bullets. I'm pushing them in the 2100 range.

Doing similar with my 405s(GC) except I'm using the lever action table and I'm tossing in Varget in stead of 3031 since I have 17lbs of it here (I use it to load for my F-TR rifle) and our favorite 308 powder seems to have good reputation with the big heavies in a 45-70. (It is slower than all the usual suspects usually associated with the 45-70) Lyman shows it getting good MV with much less pressure than most.

Loaded up 100 (50x350J and 50x405 cast) rounds this afternoon, hoping to get to the range this week.