45 acp loading expertice needed

[Snuby642]

So I reload for several rifle calibers and 9mm, 38 ,

Have a good supply of 45 acp brass and figure time to do it.
Sorted out couple hundred large primer hulls and checked them with primer pocket gauge. Fail

No problem ream and uniform. Oops, did not realise large pistol primer pockets were 0.008 thousands shorter.

Brass was cleaned, deprimed, reamed and uniformed with large rifle uniformer. Then tumbled with wax.

No large pistol primers available at the moment anyway.

Can I use large rifle primers and reduce my powder by (x ?) Ammount? Was just wanting poofers for targets. 230g rn copper plated @ 700-750 ish.

Or is this a 300 round brass fatality?

 

[Im2bent]

Large pistol primer vs. Large rifle primer

Ok so I have been reloading for about 15 years and I have never before run across this problem, I cannot find any primers for my .45 ACP now I have LOTS of large rifle primers so what is the difference between them? (note I loaded up some CCI 200 primers in some skins and they went flush and...

www.1911forum.com

 

[Lightning8]

Can you trade large rifle primers locally for large pistol primers?

 

[Hoser]

Large rifle primers in place of large pistol primers is a no-go.

 

[Snuby642]

@Im2bent
Thanks.

This was a thread that was spot on. About what I hoped for.

Thier estimate of 30% increase in fps by one member seems extremely conservitive. The other member concluded 30fps increase.

Belive I will go with a 50fps increase and shove some down the pipes.

 

[rmfield]

Large rifle primers have more height and thicker cup material. No idea how they differ in power, but it might or might not be significant. If you are feeling lucky, you might get away with it. Sounds to me like you just ruined a bunch of perfectly good brass.

I suggest patience. Primers are starting to become available again.

 

[r.tenorio671]

....you might find these to be useful, start low and work up...

...IIRC SAAMI has specs/diagrams for primers as well that you can reference for dimensions, etc.

 

[Clark]

When I do hot loads in a pistol cartridge, I have to use rifle primers to keep working up higher in pressure... once the pistol primers start piercing.

From 2005 range testing:

0) 45 acp....................... 185 gr 7.6 gr AA#5 jams w/stock Patriot
spring
1) 45 acp........................185 gr 10.2 gr AA#5 1100 fps 18,000psi
2) 45 acp +P...................185 gr 10.8 gr AA#5 1200 fps 21,700 psi
3) 45 Super.....................185 gr 12.4 gr AA#5 1312 fps 28,000 cup
4) 460 Rowland............... 185 gr 14.5 gr AA#5 1500 fps 38,800 cup
5) Easy extraction ...........185 gr 15.0 gr AA#5 *rifle
6) Case starts to stretch..185 gr 15.2 gr AA#5 *rifle
7) difficult extraction ........185 gr 16.0 gr AA#5 *rifle
8) primer falls out ............185 gr 16.5 gr AA#5 *rifle

 

[Snuby642]

Large rifle primers have more height and thicker cup material. No idea how they differ in power, but it might or might not be significant. If you are feeling lucky, you might get away with it. Sounds to me like you just ruined a bunch of perfectly good brass.

I suggest patience. Primers are starting to become available again.

A 300 pc batch is not a big deal.
It's the time lost and wear on my old hands that matters.

Then there's the be patient thing, not happening at my age.

 

[6.5SH]

A 300 pc batch is not a big deal.
It's the time lost and wear on my old hands that matters.

View attachment 7877018


Then there's the be patient thing, not happening at my age.

As my late stepfather said "from time to time a certain amount of wisdom is forced upon you, whether you like it or not".

 

[Snuby642]

Thanks again to @Im2bent .
That 1911 forum is a treasure of info like the hide.

By the way many people are running rifle primers in pistol.

 

[Yondering]

Small rifle primers in small pistol brass is fine, if the load matches and the gun will ignite them. External dimensions of these primers are identical.

Large rifle primers in pistol brass is not fine; large rifle are taller than large pistol and they will stand proud of the case head. Slam fires are possible, it happened to me once when I was younger and dumber and had read some of the online bs about using them for hotter loads. Be warned, the dimensions are NOT the same.

However if you’ve reamed out the primer pockets on that 300 pieces deep enough to fit large rifle primers (i.e. screwed them up for using large pistol any more), and the gun will ignite them, then yes you can work up a load for them.

 

[supercorndogs]

Steps for processing pistol brass.

Load, shoot, keep loading again until it cracks, then throw it away.

 

[Snuby642]

Well I forgot to update this thread.

The rifle primer substitution in 45 acp worked. Both large and small fired no harm no foul.

The large rifle primers gave poor accuracy with same powder load as small.

The small rifle primer 45 gave decent accuracy and I am adjusting the load down to see if accuracy gets better.

The rounds on the right are lrp and same charge weight on each. First time shooting this 45 and a poor showing for me.

The srp were more accurate

 

[99mpower]

with a pistol, are you sure its the primer causing the accuracy change?

Unless you are shooting from a pistol rig, thats a tough call to make

 

[cas6969]

I still can’t get past the fact that he measured the primer pockets. lol

In the early 1970s, my father traded for a couple ammo cans for 45 brass. Military brass, much of it of it World War II era. I’m still using lots of that brass. today.
Point being, don’t overthink it, 45 ACP may be the least caring thing you’ll ever handload for. As long as the primer doesn’t fall out when you seat the bullet, you should be good.

 

[Snuby642]

with a pistol, are you sure its the primer causing the accuracy change?

Unless you are shooting from a pistol rig, thats a tough call to make

Yes.

It's a small sample size and not good shooting on my part but I did this as proof of concept on the lrp in 45 brass being usable at all.

Test worked and could be used in an emergency but side by side testing shows poorer performance with the lrp's.

Your welcome to test and publish your own results. All you need is a LRP uniformer and patience.

Maybe you could run them up to max pressure and test?

I wouldn't.

 

[Snuby642]

On another note.
Still using the srp in the 45 load and going back up to run 800 fps tests for better reliability.

Evidently cfe pistol does not like slow for accuracy.

 

[Yondering]

Yes.

It's a small sample size and not good shooting on my part

but side by side testing shows poorer performance with the lrp's.

Your first sentence says the second sentence is meaningless. At least if you understand anything about testing, sample sizes, and statistics.

 

[99mpower]

Your first sentence says the second sentence is meaningless. At least if you understand anything about testing, sample sizes, and statistics.

I wasnt going to say it. Shooting pistol groups for accuracy, to find the right accuracy load, requires the pistol to be in a jig, at 25yds preferably. I've been done this road as a USPSA competitive shooter, and a bullseye NRA/CMP shooting. You have to remove your input into the gun to get accurate pistol data. Its not like a rifle, where on a bipod, rear bag, you can almost remove all movement.

 

[Snuby642]

Like I said run your own rifle primer test in 45 acp large vs small and show the results.

Nobody gives a rats ass of your credentials around here.

You want to use a rest good the results should be more accurate.

I don't have to jack with a load forever to see which is better rest or not.

It's not accuracy data it was a simple primer substitution experiment that evidently is over your head.

 

[99mpower]

Like I said run your own rifle primer test in 45 acp large vs small and show the results.

Nobody gives a rats ass of your credentials around here.

You want to use a rest good the results should be more accurate.

I don't have to jack with a load forever to see which is better rest or not.

It's not accuracy data it was a simple primer substitution experiment that evidently is over your head.

YOU made the comment about poorer performance.. not me...

 

[Snuby642]

There is a photo provided that should be enough for most people as an example.

You're a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Yondering]

There is a photo provided that should be enough for most people as an example.

You're a waste of bandwidth.

Your photo and your comments both show that you didn't prove anything. You shot a couple of minute-of-trash-can lid groups with just a few rounds each and think you can conclude accuracy results from that? Get real. You may as well have just saved the ammo and imagined the results, it'd be worth about as much.

The only one who's having this topic go over their head is you.

 

[JMGlasgow]

6.0gr of Unique, and whatever LRP or SRP brass you like, 230gr whatever bullet, and seat them until they feed reliably...done. Loading for 45ACP isn't rocket science. I've also loaded them with Nitro 100, and Clay's. I still prefer Unique.

I would throw those 300 cases you screwed up in the brass recycling bucket and call it a day.

 

[Snuby642]

Well I took your advise allready and the basterdised brass went to the recycling center so as to disable it.

Next batch is allready to shoot At 800 fps just waiting for my covid to subside.
No use knowingly spreading the coof.