45 ACP Loads

[splean]

I recently bought one thousand pieces of .45 ACP brass at a good price. I have been reloading for a few years but exclusively for my rifles. I don't shoot my pistol much so my plan was to load it all up and save it for a "rainy day". All I ever fired were standard 230grn round nose bullets. I would like to load a self defense round with a high energy transfer. Would a lighter (185grn)hollow point round traveling at a high velocity out perform a slower heavier (230grn) round? I was hoping some of you gentlemen would share your thoughts on .45 ACP loads. Thanks for you time.

PS - My pistol is a Para Ordnance P-14

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

What is generally considered appropriate for self-defense is a lighter, high velocity round with high-expansion characteristic. The XTP and Gold Dot bullets are very popular for the application. What you want to effect is wound channel diameter more so than penetration.

The challenges for your auto pistol are slide functioning and bullet feed. A different recoil spring and some feed-ramp work may be necessary.

 

[Falar]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is generally considered appropriate for self-defense is a lighter, high velocity round with high-expansion characteristic. The XTP and Gold Dot bullets are very popular for the application. What you want to effect is wound channel diameter more so than penetration.

The challenges for your auto pistol are slide functioning and bullet feed. A different recoil spring and some feed ramp work may be necessary. </div></div>

ACtually, the lighter, faster bullets can have the tendency to underpenetrate.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

I'm of the same opinion as Winchester. Many of the new style HPs are very reliable. I use Rem Golden Sabers and I'm batting 1.000 with my carry guns (one is a three-incher).

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

My favorite load for my 45 is Vit N-340, 6.0 grains w/ 230 grain FMJ gives me 880 fps out of a 1911. It works equally well in a Glock. This is probably THE cleanest load I have ever fired in a 45acp.

 

[hill billy]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

I run about 5.5 gr of Titegroup under a Berry's 230 FMJ. Puts out just over 900 fps in a Glock 21.

 

[splean]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

This is great! Thanks guys I appreciate the help.

 

[mj2evans]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

I truely don't see the usefullness of the 185g in 45. The 45 ACP is big, slow bullet and trying to get a few more fps by using a lighter bullet just does not make sense. Remember those fps start dropping the instant the bullet leaves the barrel but mass is a constant. I don't like +P 45 ammo for the same reason. A 200-230g slug at 800fps will stop most "issues" that can be stopped by a pistol ... a couple more fps won't matter. Shot placement is a lot more important.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

The man asked for a self-defense round, not a target/plinking load. The higher velocity assures expansion, a short-coming of lower-velocity pistol loads.

Any volunteers to stand on front of a 180gr flying ashtray to prove that it won't penetrate at 1000+fps?

 

[Falar]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The man asked for a self-defense round, not a target/plinking load. The higher velocity assures expansion, a short-coming of lower-velocity pistol loads.

Any volunteers to stand on front of a 180gr flying ashtray to prove that it won't penetrate at 1000+fps? </div></div>

I don't volunteer to stand in front of a .22LR either, but that doesn't mean there aren't much more effective caliber/bullets out there. THere are several .45 ACP JHP bullet designs currently that expand reliably (even when fired through autoglass/denim) and meet FBI minimum requirements for penetration. All but the Barnes DPX are 230gr. A quality, well designed bullet does not need +p velocity to do what it is supposed to. There is no "short-coming" from using 230gr bullets, quite the opposite in fact. Of course a 185gr +p JHP will penetrate human flesh, but it wont' penetrate as far as a 230gr. I recommend you take a look at the link I provided.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

In retrospect, I refute my previous argument. If the perp is in my neighbor's house and I am able to detect his presence with my X-ray vision, then I might prefer a 300 gr hard-cast lead slug at 1300 fps to penetrate the exterior walls of two houses and exhibit appropriately leaking exit wounds to simplify tracking. On the other hand, if the doped-up SOB is in my living room, my needs may differ, and 230 gr ball at 850 fps ain't it.

 

[Falar]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In retrospect, I refute my previous argument. If the perp is in my neighbor's house and I am able to detect his presence with my X-ray vision, then I might prefer a 300 gr hard-cast lead slug at 1300 fps to penetrate the exterior walls of two houses and exhibit appropriately leaking exit wounds to simplify tracking. On the other hand, if the doped-up SOB is in my living room, my needs may differ, and 230 gr ball at 850 fps ain't it. </div></div>

230gr ball isn't my first choice either. 230gr Federal HST is.

 

[Kinsman]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

For a "Defense load" in my Sig 220, I use Gold Dot 230 gr. at 925 fps. I have shot it into a clay medium, and got expansion to .65", and 13" penetration. Zero fragmentation. Not very scientific, but gives some idea of effect.
I was advised by a Marietta, Ga detective to not use handloads for self defense because it may not look good to a Judge and Jury that you felt that factory loads wouldn't kill the perp dead enough.
I use CCI with the Gold Dot 230 gr. faktry load....

 

[4Rail_Gunner]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kinsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I was advised by a Marietta, Ga detective to not use handloads for self defense because it may not look good to a Judge and Jury that you felt that factory loads wouldn't kill the perp dead enough.
I use CCI with the Gold Dot 230 gr. faktry load....
</div></div>

I agree with Kinsman, I would have factory rounds in my first 2 magazines i shoot in self defense situations instead of "evil" hand loads. The right lawyer, judge and jury could turn the tables on you and your handloads. Especially if they out perform a standard self defense load.

But if your loading for SHTF situations or zombies where you will have multiple reloads through your pistol thats a different story.

 

[splean]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

I have heard about the legal aspects of using hand loads for self defense. I keep my pistol loaded with factory ball rounds for home defense. The 1k pieces of brass I would like to re-load are for a "rainy day" that I would like to keep stored in an ammo can. I live in California and with all the crazy legislation floating around I would like to build a stash of ammo so that I won't have to pay through the nose later.

Thanks again guys. I am getting some very good information. I have read the article referenced above and it was very interesting. I appreciate your insight.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

I have shot quite a few animals with a .45 auto. I use Federal Hydra Shocks. for this. I once got a deal on some 180's and had a heck of a time getting penetration with them. This is on critters from 50 pounds to 650 pound hogs. Mostly 150 pound deer. I have now gone to 230 and nothing else. Anyone want to trade for the remainder of a case of 180 grain Fed Hydra shocks?
I did not get clean kills with them. Or much penetration. I would say they have two uses. Low penetration for saftey of bystanders, and low recoil, for weenies. LOL

 

[1911.it]

Re: 45 ACP Loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My favorite load for my 45 is Vit N-340, 6.0 grains w/ 230 grain FMJ gives me 880 fps out of a 1911. It works equally well in a Glock. This is probably THE cleanest load I have ever fired in a 45acp.</div></div>

Yeah, that's a great 45 load. Once I use up the Unique I have (6.6g, 230g ball) I'll probably switch to N340 or N310. I've had good luck with both.

I use Winchester Ranger XT 230g as a self-defense load. Don't want to give the defense attorney any leeway.