5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

[Dark Horse]

I'm sure this has been debated in the past but don't remember seeing too many threads on it and not sure about the search.

99% of the shooting I do is from my stomach or handgun so I have little to experience with a carbine style rifle from up close. I need to know from people that do this whether for fun or it's their living if 7.62 is acceptable for CQB.

I would expect most to say well what is acceptable? I prefer the 7.62 for nothing more than I have zero experience with 5.56 hunting or combat and so my trust in the caliber is weak at best.

Can you tame a light load in 7.62 with a muzzle break enough to avoid significant muzzle rise and have sights back on target or is this just not feasible.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[lazy21]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

on call of duty, I like using a 7.62. In the real word I would use a 5.56 to prevent over penetration and risk of it going through walls and injuring others.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

12 guage is hard to beat for in house fighting, and not so loud to make you deaf without hearing protection, otherwise for across the street engagement anything will work from 5,56 on up as long as your skills are there to dominate.

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

I wouldn't like to be standing next to a short barrel muzzle braked 7.62 indoors personally. Atleast if I had the choice of the 5.56 I'd definitely prefer that

Also you'd either want HIGHLY frangible rounds. Overpenetration is always a consideration unless you're in a specifically designed shoot house.

 

[command450]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

I dont think you can beat the 5.56 for CQB,from an ease of use to the load out benefits.mags,rifle weight, barrel length options, and seriously much less muzzle rise/blast,IMO.

I think you might want to get into the 5.56 game,its cheap,deadly enough,and lots of top notch rifles out there to be had.

tame a 7.62 round? would that not result in malf's??

 

[robdes]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

are you really going to be in CQB situations? I hope not for your sake. I shoot for fun and the 223 provides that in spades especially during quick follow up shots at steel. I love my 16" AR-308 though. It seems like the perfect texas hunting rifle. Deer, pigs, turkey, doves (ha ha), what ever walks in front of me. I wouldn't hunt whitetail with a 223. 6.8 is something to consider as well. good deer round in a small light gun.

 

[VYD]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

AK-47 for in-town CQB
12GA for in-house CQB

 

[Oodin]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

There are a lot of caveats and addenda included when I post this picture, but it is food for thought on the over penetration of the .308 vs. 5.56 vs. 12 gauge vs. handgun rounds. Not my picture, not my research, just something I found interesting.

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

I don't think any of us want to be in the situations we train for, but wanting to be well-rounded certainly isn't a bad thing should the requirement come about.

My initial thought was to invest in the Bushmaster ACR, but after seeing the negativity surrounding it I am having second thoughts. Sure I could do an AR and trick it out but I wanted something different so the Bushmaster looked interesting. I suppose AR's are popular for good reason.

For some reason I am torn between the 2 calibers now and the LWRC Repr is growing on me. I have shot the .308 110 gr TAP ammo and seems to perform well at close ranges and would certainly minimize over penetration issues, although muzzle blast is significantly more than a 5.56.

Just don't want this to be a $3500.00 mistake if I'm barking up the wrong tree with a .308 carbine. Close range to 300 yards is what I'm interested in, but more so being able to maneuver with a weapon close in and make precise follow up shots immediately.

 

[jerseymike]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

I could only imagine what a braked 308 would do to your hearing in an enclosed space.

Are you going to ever be in a CQB situation? will you be doing entries? maybe just home defense?

In any case, 308 is overkill, unless you just want to show off to your buddies your new 7.62 entry gun then knock yourself out.

Ive used MP5s, UMPs SBRs and SBSs. All different calibers, the common factor between all of them is that they're short and have a light.

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could only imagine what a braked 308 would do to your hearing in an enclosed space.

Are you going to ever be in a CQB situation? will you be doing entries? maybe just home defense?

In any case, 308 is overkill, unless you just want to show off to your buddies your new 7.62 entry gun then knock yourself out.

Ive used MP5s, UMPs SBRs and SBSs. All different calibers, the common factor between all of them is that they're short and have a light.

</div></div>

It seems like light and fast would be the ideal for indoor use.

 

[jerseymike]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could only imagine what a braked 308 would do to your hearing in an enclosed space.

Are you going to ever be in a CQB situation? will you be doing entries? maybe just home defense?

In any case, 308 is overkill, unless you just want to show off to your buddies your new 7.62 entry gun then knock yourself out.

Ive used MP5s, UMPs SBRs and SBSs. All different calibers, the common factor between all of them is that they're short and have a light.

</div></div>

It seems like light and fast would be the ideal for indoor use.

</div></div>

Most definitely, Ive used all kinds of crap for entry work and I revert to the 9mm MP5 with my surefire x300 duct taped to the foreend where I like it. Short, light and fast. K. I. S. S.

 

[DoubleBarrel]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

I agree 5.56 is probably better but... 110 or 155 tap with a BABC compensator on an LMT MWS might be the berries if you must.

 

[Guest]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have zero experience with 5.56 hunting or combat and so my trust in the caliber is weak at best.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Read: "I have no experience with this round, so I don't trust it." Perhaps you should get some experience before jumping to a conclusion.
</span>
Can you tame a light load in 7.62 with a muzzle break enough to avoid significant muzzle rise and have sights back on target or is this just not feasible.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I'm assuming you will want it short for "CQB", so you will have a short, braked 308 fired in tight spaces.....hope you like reading lips and CC TV</span>

Let me know what you guys think.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I think this is moronic
</span>
</div></div>

I'm a little confused as to how most of your shooting is "from the stomach". I think if you are serious about this, seek professional training on the subject. There is no magic bullet/weapon, only what you know how to use, its limitations, and full capabilities.

 

[jerseymike]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have zero experience with 5.56 hunting or combat and so my trust in the caliber is weak at best.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Read: "I have no experience with this round, so I don't trust it." Perhaps you should get some experience before jumping to a conclusion.
</span>
Can you tame a light load in 7.62 with a muzzle break enough to avoid significant muzzle rise and have sights back on target or is this just not feasible.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I'm assuming you will want it short for "CQB", so you will have a short, braked 308 fired in tight spaces.....hope you like reading lips and CC TV</span>

Let me know what you guys think.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I think this is moronic
</span>
</div></div>

I'm a little confused as to how most of your shooting is "from the stomach". I think if you are serious about this, seek professional training on the subject. There is no magic bullet/weapon, only what you know how to use, its limitations, and full capabilities.



</div></div>

+1

 

[Awesymoto]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

Glock 23, Surefire home use... JHP.... my .2 cents. I will never shoot a rifle inside of my house with family around, if i am something is going really wrong.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have zero experience with 5.56 hunting or combat and so my trust in the caliber is weak at best.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Read: "I have no experience with this round, so I don't trust it." Perhaps you should get some experience before jumping to a conclusion.
</span>
Can you tame a light load in 7.62 with a muzzle break enough to avoid significant muzzle rise and have sights back on target or is this just not feasible.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I'm assuming you will want it short for "CQB", so you will have a short, braked 308 fired in tight spaces.....hope you like reading lips and CC TV</span>

Let me know what you guys think.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I think this is moronic
</span>
</div></div>

I'm a little confused as to how most of your shooting is "from the stomach". I think if you are serious about this, seek professional training on the subject. There is no magic bullet/weapon, only what you know how to use, its limitations, and full capabilities.



</div></div>

+1 </div></div>

+2 Very good advice...

To answer your question, I would choose 5.56 all the way for CQB.

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have zero experience with 5.56 hunting or combat and so my trust in the caliber is weak at best.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Read: "I have no experience with this round, so I don't trust it." Perhaps you should get some experience before jumping to a conclusion.
</span>
Can you tame a light load in 7.62 with a muzzle break enough to avoid significant muzzle rise and have sights back on target or is this just not feasible.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I'm assuming you will want it short for "CQB", so you will have a short, braked 308 fired in tight spaces.....hope you like reading lips and CC TV</span>

Let me know what you guys think.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I think this is moronic
</span>
</div></div>

I'm a little confused as to how most of your shooting is "from the stomach". I think if you are serious about this, seek professional training on the subject. There is no magic bullet/weapon, only what you know how to use, its limitations, and full capabilities.



</div></div>

Maybe you thought I meant holding a rifle up against my stomach with a picture of Rambo in my wallet.

I only own rifles I can shoot from the prone position, hopefully that unconfuses things for you.

Maybe you have .223 rifle you won't mind lending me so I can gain some experience with it, otherwise I'm not in the military or LE so I'm buying something blindly.

Remind me to not ask what people think because there's always a deuce bag out there pounding his chest because he knows more than everyone else.

Wasn't asking for a magic weapon just looking for some intelligent responses from people who have experience with both calibers. Thanks to everyone else.

 

[Tango_Bravo]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

To the OP.

I don't know what exactly you will be using this weapon for, but I am assuming you are not in the military, so what I have to say is based on that premise.

If you want something for home defense, I would suggest one of several different things to consider.

1: Get a good 12 gauge shotgun, and set it up for entry work - Good sights (not the factory bead) and a light.

This may not be the best for you in certain situations, especially if you may need pinpoint accuracy at any range.

2: Get a good handgun preferably in 9MM or .45ACP.

This will take serious training on your part to learn to be proficient with a handgun in a defensive situation, however this may be your best option as you can discreetly carry a handgun in most contexts.

3: Get a high quality AR-15 (Most manufacturers are good, with the notable exceptions of Century, and Olympic) chambered in 5.56NATO.

With this rifle you can safely fire .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO ammunition.


If you go any of these routes, make SURE that you ALWAYS use high quality ammo that you have function tested in your weapon, and that you know will not overpenetrate.

In my opinion, the only place for a .308Winchester/7.62NATO weapon in as a DMR/Sniper rifle. It has no place whatsoever as an entry weapon for the following reasons:
1: Overpenetration
2: Muzzle blast/muzzle flash
and
3: Recovery time - the time it takes you to get back on target after firing a shot.


Good Luck!

DeltaSierra

 

[Tango_Bravo]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

Ah....

And one other thing I forgot to mention before..

A 9mm carbine (preferably of the AR flavor) would do the trick as well.

Decent ballistics, quick recovery time and less muzzle blast/flash.

 

[Guest]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have zero experience with 5.56 hunting or combat and so my trust in the caliber is weak at best.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Read: "I have no experience with this round, so I don't trust it." Perhaps you should get some experience before jumping to a conclusion.
</span>
Can you tame a light load in 7.62 with a muzzle break enough to avoid significant muzzle rise and have sights back on target or is this just not feasible.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I'm assuming you will want it short for "CQB", so you will have a short, braked 308 fired in tight spaces.....hope you like reading lips and CC TV</span>

Let me know what you guys think.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I think this is moronic
</span>
</div></div>

I'm a little confused as to how most of your shooting is "from the stomach". I think if you are serious about this, seek professional training on the subject. There is no magic bullet/weapon, only what you know how to use, its limitations, and full capabilities.



</div></div>

Maybe you thought I meant holding a rifle up against my stomach with a picture of Rambo in my wallet.

I only own rifles I can shoot from the prone position, hopefully that unconfuses things for you.

Maybe you have .223 rifle you won't mind lending me so I can gain some experience with it, otherwise I'm not in the military or LE so I'm buying something blindly.

Remind me to not ask what people think because there's always a deuce bag out there pounding his chest because he knows more than everyone else.

Wasn't asking for a magic weapon just looking for some intelligent responses from people who have experience with both calibers. Thanks to everyone else. </div></div>

If that be the case, most folks would just use the term "prone".

If it's any help to you, our rifle policy for out SWAT team is that only .223/5.56mm rifles (preferably AR's) be used by officers on call-outs or organized deployments (raids/warrants). Policy specifically states that only those who are trained snipers and operating in a sniping/observation role can deploy a .308.

A few departments in the area have surplus M14's. From what most officers tell me, these are usually kept in safes/armories only to be used as a last resort.

This should tell you something right there about the liability of using a .308 in certain situations.

As for the practical side:

First, you state you are a civie, know that there are huge differences between "CQB" and home defense. I fucking hate home defense threads/arguments, so i'll leave it at that.

In terms of actual building search/entry that I have been involved in:

Most begin with, and some seasoned officers prefer doing these searches with pistols since, you can pull a pistol tight to your body and operate the weapon-mounted light and accurately fire with one hand and use the other for things such as opening doors, etc.

Long guns for this situation add some difficulty. If you deploy a long gun, that is your sole responsibility. You don't go hands-on with anyone. Taking corners and learning to not lead with your barrel takes some time to master. This is with an AR or short barreled shotgun in mind. You want a .308 that may add length and most certainly weight. Extra weight and length fucking suck if you don't need it. So basically, you are choosing an option with with increased liability and increased difficulty. Three words I find myself hearing and saying a lot: "Smooth, light, simple". You're looking at "Clumsy, heavy, and difficult"

Again, I speak from experience. SBR's aren't popular here in IL, and scum bags tend to dwell in small homes/trailers/shacks and not cavernous mansions (we rarely get warrants for those rich scumbags). So, let me tell you clearing a trailer with a 16" AR fucking sucks. Not to say that the job can't be done with just about anything. I could clear a broom closet with a 30" barreled goose gun, but I don't want to.

All this being said, if I were deployed abroad, I would certainly give consideration to a .308 if I had but one gun to strap across my chest for ALL threats from arms reach to "far as the eye can see". But that is not what you asked.

 

[stefan73]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oodin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are a lot of caveats and addenda included when I post this picture, but it is food for thought on the over penetration of the .308 vs. 5.56 vs. 12 gauge vs. handgun rounds. Not my picture, not my research, just something I found interesting.

</div></div>

Your missing the MK262 Mod 0 and Mod 1 77grn SMK ammo that we use.
Far superior to the crap SS109, 855 62 grn green tip IMO.

 

[splean]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

You can't really go wrong with an AR-15 with a 16" barrel. It can be used from point blank all the way out to 500 yards with the proper sights. They are easy to use, inexpensive and there are an infinite number of after market products to customize the carbine to your needs. There are many types of projectiles to choice from aswell. For example 40gr varmint type round may reduce overpenetration by some degree for use "indoors". You can also use heavier rounds to shoot further. The AR system and the 5.56mm round have been in use by the US armed forces for forty years and a lot of research and use has come out of it. I hope this helps. Take care and good luck.

 

[BX1129]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

Shooting a 16 inch .308 in door sucks..... The noise level itself is very annoying, to say the least. The muzzle blast from the .308 does wonders to your PVS 14s. I see very few people to be fans of using a .308 for CQB. (Unless I am playing Modern Warfare, then it's SCAR 17 all the way) Not that it can't be done, but it's definitely not the preferred choice.

People already have went over the over penetration and etcc.... The best way is to borrow someone's LMT MWS/SCAR 17/ M1A SOCOM/ whatever 16 inch variants of AR-10 and go to a 3 gun match. At the end of the stages, you are going to be worn out from lugging a 11 pound LMT. Also, recoil fatigue will start to set in and you will see a dramatic drop in accuracy and responsiveness.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

I would seriously suggest a nice M4 type AR-15 in .223, you don't need to spend a lot on one to get something decent and reliable.

A 14.5" barrel with a fixed flash hider would be about as small as you can get and makes for a very handy carry around, or a standard 16" barrel would also work well.

Put a good optic like an Eotech or similar on it, a good sling and some good mags and keep it simple and light and it would be a very good weapon to start off on.

I would suggest not spending a ton of money, you can get a good M4 style new or used for under $1000 and spend a couple hundred on a good EOTECH and under $100 for a good sling. If you were on a budget, with a bit of looking around on the FS section, you could come in under $1000 for the whole thing, use the heck out of it, practice, train, have fun, then upgrade if you want to, once you have found out what works well for you.

.223 ammo is cheap and available everywhere and you can easily use an AR-15 for 3 gun matches as well as combat training courses and all kinds of close range stuff, and it makes a good gun to have regardless of what you might have in the future.

.308 gas guns are very useful and some like the GAP/POF AR-10 can be extremely accurate, but before you get one, get used to the AR-15 and then think about exactly what you want for your bigger gas gun. 308 guns in semi auto get heavy quick if you start lugging them around for a long time as compared to an M4 style AR-15

People always ask about what semi-auto 308 rifles to get for CQB or SHTF etc, and really the answer is that if you are a civilian, you will never use it in anger and at most you might use it for hunting if it is not too heavy to carry. Actual defense of yourself and your loved ones will proably always come down to a handgun or a shotgun, so your big 308 gas gun is basically for sport / hunting.

In my opinion a heavy short 308 carbine is a bit of an in between weapon that has a few too many compromises, because it's a bit too heavy and to big to carry around and go in and out of tight places or run fast run and gun matches like you can with an M4 type AR-15, and then usually it is not quite long enough to do serious target work, so that is why I would suggest you should not jump into a .308 one right away if you have never used a carbine before, till you know what you want it for and then get one that matches your planned actual use (or you happen to come across one that looks totally perfect to you and puts a smile on your face every time you handle it)

 

[JJones75]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

I worked with a guy that used a Socom II for his patrol rifle , loaded with 110gr TAP ammo. He shot a couple deer with it in the 20 yd range and the terminal ballistics were very impressive to say the least.
Muzzle blast on the other had is AWFULL.

theirs few instances where i'd feel undergunned with my 10.5" AR

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have zero experience with 5.56 hunting or combat and so my trust in the caliber is weak at best.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Read: "I have no experience with this round, so I don't trust it." Perhaps you should get some experience before jumping to a conclusion.
</span>
Can you tame a light load in 7.62 with a muzzle break enough to avoid significant muzzle rise and have sights back on target or is this just not feasible.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I'm assuming you will want it short for "CQB", so you will have a short, braked 308 fired in tight spaces.....hope you like reading lips and CC TV</span>

Let me know what you guys think.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I think this is moronic
</span>
</div></div>

I'm a little confused as to how most of your shooting is "from the stomach". I think if you are serious about this, seek professional training on the subject. There is no magic bullet/weapon, only what you know how to use, its limitations, and full capabilities.



</div></div>

Maybe you thought I meant holding a rifle up against my stomach with a picture of Rambo in my wallet.

I only own rifles I can shoot from the prone position, hopefully that unconfuses things for you.

Maybe you have .223 rifle you won't mind lending me so I can gain some experience with it, otherwise I'm not in the military or LE so I'm buying something blindly.

Remind me to not ask what people think because there's always a deuce bag out there pounding his chest because he knows more than everyone else.

Wasn't asking for a magic weapon just looking for some intelligent responses from people who have experience with both calibers. Thanks to everyone else. </div></div>

If that be the case, most folks would just use the term "prone".

If it's any help to you, our rifle policy for out SWAT team is that only .223/5.56mm rifles (preferably AR's) be used by officers on call-outs or organized deployments (raids/warrants). Policy specifically states that only those who are trained snipers and operating in a sniping/observation role can deploy a .308.

A few departments in the area have surplus M14's. From what most officers tell me, these are usually kept in safes/armories only to be used as a last resort.

This should tell you something right there about the liability of using a .308 in certain situations.

As for the practical side:

First, you state you are a civie, know that there are huge differences between "CQB" and home defense. I fucking hate home defense threads/arguments, so i'll leave it at that.

In terms of actual building search/entry that I have been involved in:

Most begin with, and some seasoned officers prefer doing these searches with pistols since, you can pull a pistol tight to your body and operate the weapon-mounted light and accurately fire with one hand and use the other for things such as opening doors, etc.

Long guns for this situation add some difficulty. If you deploy a long gun, that is your sole responsibility. You don't go hands-on with anyone. Taking corners and learning to not lead with your barrel takes some time to master. This is with an AR or short barreled shotgun in mind. You want a .308 that may add length and most certainly weight. Extra weight and length fucking suck if you don't need it. So basically, you are choosing an option with with increased liability and increased difficulty. Three words I find myself hearing and saying a lot: "Smooth, light, simple". You're looking at "Clumsy, heavy, and difficult"

Again, I speak from experience. SBR's aren't popular here in IL, and scum bags tend to dwell in small homes/trailers/shacks and not cavernous mansions (we rarely get warrants for those rich scumbags). So, let me tell you clearing a trailer with a 16" AR fucking sucks. Not to say that the job can't be done with just about anything. I could clear a broom closet with a 30" barreled goose gun, but I don't want to.

All this being said, if I were deployed abroad, I would certainly give consideration to a .308 if I had but one gun to strap across my chest for ALL threats from arms reach to "far as the eye can see". But that is not what you asked.
</div></div>

These are the responses I was looking for, thank you.

I shot the M14 in the Navy quite a bit, only shot the AR one time in four years. Was very much impressed with the M14 but have come to realize it is too long and heavy for what I'm looking for. Have been shooting the .308 and .338 Lapua for 15 years and want to get into more of a "3 gun" style of shooting.

That being said, I have the shotgun and handguns, but don't want to confuse anyone...what I'm looking for is not for home defense.

The question was more curiosity based then anything else. I'm seeing more and more 16-18" barreled .308 carbines from reputable companies and wanted to know why. Is it just a selling tool or is there an actual usefulness to these rifles?

I don't have the combat experience or training that lends itself to making a rational decision so all the input has been much appreciated.

 

[eleaf]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think any of us want to be in the situations we train for, but wanting to be well-rounded certainly isn't a bad thing should the requirement come about.

My initial thought was to invest in the Bushmaster ACR, but after seeing the negativity surrounding it I am having second thoughts. Sure I could do an AR and trick it out but I wanted something different so the Bushmaster looked interesting. I suppose AR's are popular for good reason.

For some reason I am torn between the 2 calibers now and the LWRC Repr is growing on me. I have shot the .308 110 gr TAP ammo and seems to perform well at close ranges and would certainly minimize over penetration issues, although muzzle blast is significantly more than a 5.56.

Just don't want this to be a $3500.00 mistake if I'm barking up the wrong tree with a .308 carbine. Close range to 300 yards is what I'm interested in, but more so being able to maneuver with a weapon close in and make precise follow up shots immediately. </div></div>

In the Hornady TAP manual, they say that the 110 vmax might be the best LE sniper round available because it doesn't have over penetration issues.

But that is with a rifle, not a shot from up close in a house.

 

[Oodin]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oodin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are a lot of caveats and addenda included when I post this picture, but it is food for thought on the over penetration of the .308 vs. 5.56 vs. 12 gauge vs. handgun rounds. Not my picture, not my research, just something I found interesting.</div></div>Your missing the MK262 Mod 0 and Mod 1 77grn SMK ammo that we use.
Far superior to the crap SS109, 855 62 grn green tip IMO. </div></div>Not sure if you missed it or chose to ignore it, but I said "Not my picture, not my research" I'm not "missing" anything.

I do realize that 77 grain SMKs perform better than M855, but I didn't have a picture depicting their performance after penetrating interior walls. What you see is what I had.

I mostly posted it regarding the use of shotguns to prevent over-penetration compared to a .308, I think that's where that picture speaks volumes; also the performance of 9mm and .45 ACP after penetrating wallboard.

 

[Alderleet]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/evr_tP9cJWY"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/evr_tP9cJWY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

I was expecting this way earlier on.

But all funny aside, 7.62, unless x39, makes no damn sense for cqb.

 

[Silverbullet2]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

I have shot my LWRC REPR in the Training bay at the local indoor range, and it is night and day difference with the Surefire can. I demo this combo to LE all the time. It produces perma grin, and orders more that 50% of the time. JPG

 

[Guest]

Re: 5.56 or 7.62 for CQB

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

These are the responses I was looking for, thank you.

I shot the M14 in the Navy quite a bit, only shot the AR one time in four years. Was very much impressed with the M14 but have come to realize it is too long and heavy for what I'm looking for. Have been shooting the .308 and .338 Lapua for 15 years and want to get into more of a "3 gun" style of shooting.

That being said, I have the shotgun and handguns, but don't want to confuse anyone...what I'm looking for is not for home defense.

The question was more curiosity based then anything else. I'm seeing more and more 16-18" barreled .308 carbines from reputable companies and wanted to know why. Is it just a selling tool or is there an actual usefulness to these rifles?

I don't have the combat experience or training that lends itself to making a rational decision so all the input has been much appreciated. </div></div>

Again, I think confusion would have been avoided if you would have said some of this initially. Perhaps included your interest in 3-gun competition. Like the stomach/prone misunderstanding, I respond to what I am given.