6.5 Creedmoor Brass NOT CHAMBERING

C

CHOMPS

Private
Minuteman
Oct 20, 2024
16
1
Nova Scotia, Canada
#1
Hello!

I'm fairly new to reloading as I am just starting with PRS over this past summer.


I've noticed a few times that I have trouble chambering brass that I reload, and have narrowed this issue down to brass that was once fired from a different rifle.

A coworker recently gave me a bunch of SRP brass that has these strange lines on the shoulder - He fired them out of his mossberg patriot. I tried sizing one and chambering it in my rifle (savage axis precision) and it will not chamber. In fact, it locks the bolt up pretty bad, resulting in the need to smack it open with a mallet.

The brass hangs up on the midsection i believe, as is evident from the scratches on the case.


IF this sounds like a logical explanation, are there any sets of dies I can buy that will resolve this issue and squish the sides closer to the base back to factory? I am currently using Hornady Custome Grade dies on a lyman american 8 press.

Thanks!








173eb39f-9e64-444f-923b-bffbf9fe265a.jpg
 
#2
Using once-fired brass from another rifle is always hit or miss.

In your case:

1) The chamber that the brass was fired from is decently larger than yours.
2) Your die doesn't size it down enough to enable it to chamber appropriately.

What happens when you fire a round is:

- Pressure builds
- Case goes through initial expansion to the chamber walls
- Pressure builds more
- Case and chamber both grow a little more
- Case and chamber both spring back

Of note is that the more a case expands, the more it will tend to spring back. In your case, because it was fired from a larger chamber, it doesn't have to expand as much in yours, which means it will spring back less as well. When your chamber springs back into place, it essentially "grabs" these cases and causes the need to hammer open the bolt.

I've had this issue happen with new barrels using the same reamer, but on different lathes. Even with a custom sizing die, sometimes you just can't get the brass fired from the larger chamber to work. I don't screw with it anymore. When I get a new barrel, I shelve the old brass. And I NEVER buy once fired brass. Not worth the aggravation.
 
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#4
This is a typical problem when using a cartridge fired in a different rifle. Assuming that you setting the die up correctly usually what happens is the base of the cartridge isn't getting size enough at the 0.200" point above the base. It is also possible that the dimension called the datum which is the base to shoulder dimension (some refer to this as the headspace). For the base issue the solution is usually a small base die. For the datum dimension the solution can sometimes be turning the die down a little bit more. If the die is not set properly then the mid case could be the issue.
 
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#6
Just to add an additional data point, take a sharpie and color one piece of questionable brass. Try chambering it (doesn't have to be loaded or primed).

Slowly eject said case and see what exactly is making contact.
 
#8
You need the small base die or competition shell holders to size the whole case back down to SAAMI. Common problem if you are using brass fired in another chamber.
 
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#9
Shouldn't matter what rifle it came out of, if your sizing die is doing what it's supposed to be doing, and your chamber is pretty close to 'spec'. I've sized alll KINDS of range pickup brass in my forster sizing die, and besides finding my own headspace, they've always fit. It's the headspace you have to find. Take the firing pin assy out of your bolt, size a case, throw it in there, (remove the wax first; you dont need that wax coating your chamber) then slowly push down on your bolt handle, it should go down with just a little force (which is the bolt compressing the ejector if you have one) If you're even halfway fighting it, you need to bump the shoulder a touch more till that bolt goes down with not much effort at all. If you keep messing with those measurements, you'll find right at where your bolt handle just starts to move down with little effort. I know it's not exact, but you can then throw a thousandths or two onto that and that should be your headspace from here on out.
If youve done all that and it's still really hard, is that the brass then? Or are you fighting something else going on inside there? If a factory case inserts easy and the bolt closes easy, then take some calipers and measure the od of the factory case on the upper, middle and lower part of the case, along with the headspace measurement, and compare that to the other sized cases, and see what discrepancies there are. I'd also like to see a borescope pic of the inside of that chamber, and the die just to be sure.
Those those 2 rings you see on the shoulder are wronger than fuck. Somethings up there for sure.
 
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#10
Basic user said:
Shouldn't matter what rifle it came out of, if your sizing die is doing what it's supposed to be doing, and your chamber is pretty close to 'spec'.
Click to expand...
Doesn't chamber length specificity (from rifle to rilfe) mean the un-chambered part of the brass (circa .200 line) is determined relative to the head-space not the bolt-face? IE, if/when you change shoulders/chambers using the same brass 1x resized, I think people are saying this can cause some issues. And that what the "small-base die" ultimately is looking to address. I could be wrong tho and maybe its something else.
 
#11
CHOMPS said:
Hello!

I'm fairly new to reloading as I am just starting with PRS over this past summer.


I've noticed a few times that I have trouble chambering brass that I reload, and have narrowed this issue down to brass that was once fired from a different rifle.

A coworker recently gave me a bunch of SRP brass that has these strange lines on the shoulder - He fired them out of his mossberg patriot. I tried sizing one and chambering it in my rifle (savage axis precision) and it will not chamber. In fact, it locks the bolt up pretty bad, resulting in the need to smack it open with a mallet.

The brass hangs up on the midsection i believe, as is evident from the scratches on the case.


IF this sounds like a logical explanation, are there any sets of dies I can buy that will resolve this issue and squish the sides closer to the base back to factory? I am currently using Hornady Custome Grade dies on a lyman american 8 press.

Thanks!








View attachment 8572427
Click to expand...
Just to reiterate. . .

Brass fired from a different gun/barrel will often have this issue of not fitting into another gun/barrel. Different barrels often have different dimensions, very small differences, but different non the less, and even those from the same manufacturer can be different. To get cases that have been fired in other barrel and don't fit in another barrel, a "small" base sizing die that sizes the case down a little more than a standard die will often solve the problem.

A few years ago I'd collect various once fired range brass for my .308 to see what the differences were from one brand to another. Most of them would size up just fine with my standard sizing die and usable in my gun. But there were those that wouldn't and need to be sized with Small Base sizing die. Brass that had a rather high hardness or have been excessively expanded when fired tend to be much harder to size them for a different barrel. Though I don't use other people's brass any longer, I always made an effort to never use someone's brass that's been fired more than once; you never know what issues you might run into when doing that.
 
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#12
I dont know about all of that scientific stuff, all I know is that MOST (remember the word most being used here, and not suddenly forgetting it when reading on down the rest of this sentence) sizing dies squeeze the important part of the casing that matters down to a size that will fit MOST standard issue production chambers. If it doesn't, I am thinking it's the chamber's fault (being a touch too tight) rather than the sizer. You could experiment with this if you have more than one rifle of the same caliber. You could take one of those sized cases and try to fit them into other chambers to see. If not, borrow a buddys sizer and size one of those cases then try the same chamber to see if there's a difference.

If the base of the case even after sizing is still too big, then that case came out of a rifle with a slightly bigger chamber than spec I'm guessing.
I have quite a few rifles and reload for all of them, and have exactly one rifle that a fired case fit back into the chamber really hard, and it was an old milsurp rifle at that. Their chambers werent the most precise so I wasn't totally surprised. Though it fit back perfectly fine after resizing.
 
#13
OK - couple things to clarify.

1 - The brass given to me has a diameter near the base averaging .471" while the brass that i have fired 2-3 times through my rifle has a dimension of .469".......the lyman book i have says it should be about .470. Does this mean i have a tighter chamber on my rifle than I should? Again it is a savage axis 2 precision, so not exactly a top end specimen. The donor brass was fired in a mossberg patriot, which as far as I am aware is about as cheap a bolt gun as one can get - I think he has a burr or something in his chamber causing the lines on the shoulders.

2- When I move to chamber a sized piece of this brass, i can't get the bolt all the way forward - It isn't catching on the shoulder due to headspace, it is catching around the base of the case. I will do the sharpee test tomorrow to confirm this.


What is the solution here? IS there a die that I can purchase to resolve this and use these cases, or should i cut my losses and move on?



Thanks,

CH0MPS
 
#14
Doom said:
This is a typical problem when using a cartridge fired in a different rifle. Assuming that you setting the die up correctly usually what happens is the base of the cartridge isn't getting size enough at the 0.200" point above the base.
Click to expand...
I have encountered this and it is a very frustrating issue. I was used to just checking the shoulder with a comparator gauge but one of the barrels in my collection let the base expand enough that when chambered or partially chambered you had to hit the bolt handle with a block of wood to open it.
 
#15
Things I would try if it was me.
Get the Cortina Precision mandrel die. It sizes the base .0005 smaller than a standard die.
If I wanted to upgrade dies I would go straight to Whidden Gunworks. They are a little pricy but they have worked well for me in 6.5C.

What brand of brass are you working with? Is it worth saving? Lapua, Peterson, Starline All worth a little effort.
Use the black sharpie method mentioned above to determine where the brass is tight in the chamber. Then it will be easier to fix the issue.
 
#16
AllenOne1 said:
Things I would try if it was me.
Get the Cortina Precision mandrel die. It sizes the base .0005 smaller than a standard die.
If I wanted to upgrade dies I would go straight to Whidden Gunworks. They are a little pricy but they have worked well for me in 6.5C.

What brand of brass are you working with? Is it worth saving? Lapua, Peterson, Starline All worth a little effort.
Use the black sharpie method mentioned above to determine where the brass is tight in the chamber. Then it will be easier to fix the issue.
Click to expand...
It is federal srp and some Winchester brass, nothing incredible.

I will do the sharper test tonight and post a photo of the results. I have a feeling it may not be worth saving though, based on a few of the responses….



Thanks,

Ch0mps
 
#17
CHOMPS said:
It is federal srp and some Winchester brass, nothing incredible.

I will do the sharper test tonight and post a photo of the results. I have a feeling it may not be worth saving though, based on a few of the responses….



Thanks,

Ch0mps
Click to expand...
In that case I would spend my first money on new cases. Starline brass is affordable and it holds up really well. I have some with about 20 loads on it. Annealed after every firing which might be helping.
 
#19
CHOMPS said:
OK - couple things to clarify.

1 - The brass given to me has a diameter near the base averaging .471" while the brass that i have fired 2-3 times through my rifle has a dimension of .469".......the lyman book i have says it should be about .470. Does this mean i have a tighter chamber on my rifle than I should? Again it is a savage axis 2 precision, so not exactly a top end specimen. The donor brass was fired in a mossberg patriot, which as far as I am aware is about as cheap a bolt gun as one can get - I think he has a burr or something in his chamber causing the lines on the shoulders.

2- When I move to chamber a sized piece of this brass, i can't get the bolt all the way forward - It isn't catching on the shoulder due to headspace, it is catching around the base of the case. I will do the sharpee test tomorrow to confirm this.


What is the solution here? IS there a die that I can purchase to resolve this and use these cases, or should i cut my losses and move on?



Thanks,

CH0MPS
Click to expand...
A “small base” sizing die is extra tight around the bottom for this exact situation and to ensure it feeds in a semi auto which doesn’t have a bolt you can cram closed manually.

I’d buy good brass myself, leave the fat mossburg turds with the mossburg.
 
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#28
CHOMPS said:
I don't have a case gauge for 6.5CM - I just see if it chambers in my rifle.


Gave the brass back today and told him to contact mossberg. I think they may warranty that rifle - it clearly has a major defect with the chamber.
Click to expand...
"mossberg" enough said. There ere several reasons I don't sell mossberg rifles in the store.

you should get a case gage for every caliber you load for. You can get away with just sizing brass that was fired in one rifle and loading it for THAT rifle. I have about 4 6.5cm and more of each cal I load for. And I am sure I will make more barrels.

I want to be able to load any ammo I make in any rifle I own.
 
#29
tinker said:
"mossberg" enough said. There ere several reasons I don't sell mossberg rifles in the store.

you should get a case gage for every caliber you load for. You can get away with just sizing brass that was fired in one rifle and loading it for THAT rifle. I have about 4 6.5cm and more of each cal I load for. And I am sure I will make more barrels.

I want to be able to load any ammo I make in any rifle I own.
Click to expand...
That's fair - you are right, i should be able to load it into any 6.5cm rifle I own.


Do you think that maybe i am just not sizing the brass properly? I'll look into a case gauge
 
#30
CHOMPS said:
That's fair - you are right, i should be able to load it into any 6.5cm rifle I own.


Do you think that maybe i am just not sizing the brass properly? I'll look into a case gauge
Click to expand...
It is possible you may not be sizing right, could be a die issue? Without a case gage you just don't know.

I used a redding competition die... it wouldn't size the base enough to fit a case gage.....I called redding. Redding said and I quote "case gages don't matter, if it fits YOUR chamber that is all that matters". That answer is pure trash. Needless to say I tossed the redding dies in the trash.
 
#31
Next time it happens you can probably run it thru a 308 die with the expander stem/ball removed first so it just knocks down body taper… works with my Redding dies

Then run it back thru the creed die

After doing that once it should work normal in that rifle after that just sizing with the creed die going forward

The 308 die will elongate the body some so you have to make sure you bump it back to the correct shoulder dimension with the creed die

I’ve got some random brass that’s probably seen almost 10 different creed barrels over the years

A common cause of this is the size of the chamfer a smith will Put on the back side of the chamber after it is reamed
 
#32
tinker said:
It is possible you may not be sizing right, could be a die issue? Without a case gage you just don't know.

I used a redding competition die... it wouldn't size the base enough to fit a case gage.....I called redding. Redding said and I quote "case gages don't matter, if it fits YOUR chamber that is all that matters". That answer is pure trash. Needless to say I tossed the redding dies in the trash.
Click to expand...
They are right though.
And case gauges are for people too incompetent to actually measure.
 
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#35
While most people think of a case gauge as being like the Wilson product on the left, the Whidden gauge on the right makes measuring from SAAMI and observed offset easy.

I usually find virgin brass to measure under spec (0.00 on the gauge; e.g., new brass will come in at -0.003 or somesuch). Fired brass will be (in my bolt rifles, all chambered by the same smith) at +0.002. I resize to 0.00.

Being the economical person I am, I made a spacer to drop into my 6.5CM gauge so I can use it with 6BR brass - both have 30-degree shoulders.

Fwiw.

1735067235577.png 1735067359241.png
 
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