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6.5 Creedmoor, Nosler 140gr RDF, Alliant Reloader 16

Y

Yerman

Private
Banned !
Minuteman
Jun 15, 2013
722
499
Fort Worth, Texas
#1
Hey guys, I have my barrel and all my components on the way. I am looking for starting and max load data but can't seem to find anything on Allient's website or Nosler's website. Any help would be appreciated.

I'll be using:

Bartlein 6.5 Creedmoor in 1:8 Twist, 26"
Nosler .264 140gr RDF bullet
Alliant Reloader 16
Hornady Brass
CCI Large Rifle Primer

Thanks.

 
#4
I'll definitely keep you guys posted. Unfortunately I'm about 5 weeks away from getting my rifle back from the gunsmith with my new barrel.

I did work up my OCW load. I decided to charge between 39.7gr and 42.5 working my way up slowly looking for pressure signs. I'm curious what charge weights you guys are starting with as well?
 
#5
I've been using this load these past couple months and seem to be getting some constant groups. I heard the new IMR 4451 is suppose to get great result...I'll have to get a 1lb and make a couple test batches

Hornady 140gr ELD-M
IMR 4350 42.2gr
CCI BR2
Trimmed 1.905
OAL 2.800
 
#7
Alright just finished up and got some results, i think i am headed in the right direction. What do you guys think?

Nosler 140gr RDF
New Hornady Brass
CCI BR2
40 thou off lands
2.2040 CBTO

I shot a 4 shot group, and then attached the magnetospeed for another 4 shot group to get speed since i have noticed my groups change with the magnetospeed.

Appears to have been settling into a node around 43.0 - 43.2. Might try the next test with 43.1 and 43.3 and see what it does. I think i may have missed a lower node with my starting at 41.6. No signs of pressure anywhere.

41.6 - 2778fps
SD: 11.9

41.8 - 2795fps
SD: 14.6

42.0 - 2807fps
SD: 15.2

42.2 - 2819fps
SD: 10.0

42.4 - 2828fps
SD: 11.0

42.6- 2858fps
SD: 22.1

42.8 - 2869fps
SD: 11.2

43.0 - 2876fps
SD: 9.5

43.2 - 2905fps
SD: 7.8

<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/ModernDayTragedy/media/56E0083C-5D6A-468E-8F13-B06DDD823D56.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/ModernDayTragedy/56E0083C-5D6A-468E-8F13-B06DDD823D56.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 56E0083C-5D6A-468E-8F13-B06DDD823D56.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/ModernDayTragedy/media/9986A34A-FC80-4367-AA98-36D7DEC8482B.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/ModernDayTragedy/9986A34A-FC80-4367-AA98-36D7DEC8482B.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9986A34A-FC80-4367-AA98-36D7DEC8482B.jpg"></a>
 
#8
Great info. First time I've seen actual RL16 and 140gr RDF data on the internet. Thanks!

I like 42.6 to 43.0 because the first two are grouping left and 43.0 is still pretty tight. My understanding is that you are looking for groups to the same POI on target then you play with seating depth to tighten in up.
 
#9
Yerman said:
Great info. First time I've seen actual RL16 and 140gr RDF data on the internet. Thanks!

I like 42.6 to 43.0 because the first two are grouping left and 43.0 is still pretty tight. My understanding is that you are looking for groups to the same POI on target then you play with seating depth to tighten in up.
Click to expand...

My pleasure, It was driving me crazy trying to find something too. I think what I'm going to do is load up another test for 42.9-43.4 in .1 increments. I think my node is there. But you say 42.6-43.0, hmm.
 
#10
My Advise with the RDF is to jump it further than 0.040" I did not start seeing really great groups until I was jumping close to .120" to .130". I am using the 140 gr under H4350 also. just saying do not be afraid to jump them. my COAL is 2.815 (ogive is 2.182 I believe).
 
#15
Here is my OCW test results. What do you guys think?

I didn't get quite high enough in my velocities so I think I will re-do the test with different charge weights. However, I don't like how my group opened up at higher velocities. Not sure what to do.

Nosler RDF 140 gr
Reloader 16
Brand new Hornady brass
CCI Primers [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i136.photobucket.com\/albums\/q173\/bwurfel\/IMG_6905.JPG_zpsdh1gcbsr.jpeg"}[/IMG2]
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i136.photobucket.com\/albums\/q173\/bwurfel\/Screen%20Shot%202017-05-13%20at%205.52.38%20PM_zpsldvogzfk.png"}[/IMG2]


[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i136.photobucket.com\/albums\/q173\/bwurfel\/Screen%20Shot%202017-05-13%20at%206.05.47%20PM_zpsrohhlvb9.png"}[/IMG2]
 
Last edited:
#17
Load 9 is just a good group. I'm not so certain is actually a node.2 and 3 are a node, very close poi and stacked velocity. Only 7fps separating them and single digit SD's.

I think you are also coming into a node at the top. I would be curious to see what 43.3 looks like. If it has a velocity really close to 43.1 and another single digit SD, I would say that would be a great load. I've long since stopped doing ladders and OCW testing. You can find accuracy nodes with a good chrono. No dependency on shooting good groups or interpreting sloughed data because you didn't. Find the stacked velocities and it is quite often a single digit SD and an accuracy node. Play with seating depth to tighten the group.
 
#18
Birddog6424 said:
Load 9 is just a good group. I'm not so certain is actually a node.2 and 3 are a node, very close poi and stacked velocity. Only 7fps separating them and single digit SD's.

I think you are also coming into a node at the top. I would be curious to see what 43.3 looks like. If it has a velocity really close to 43.1 and another single digit SD, I would say that would be a great load. I've long since stopped doing ladders and OCW testing. You can find accuracy nodes with a good chrono. No dependency on shooting good groups or interpreting sloughed data because you didn't. Find the stacked velocities and it is quite often a single digit SD and an accuracy node. Play with seating depth to tighten the group.
Click to expand...


forgive my ignorance, I am not a seasoned vet when it comes to load development, but what is the difference between a good group and close POIs? It's seems intuitive to me that they are the same thing.

 
#19
What Birddog said... for the OCW you're NOT looking for "group size" i.e. POI in relation to each other.. Your looking for the poi to be closest to the point of AIM. You re trying to find the accuracy node, a point where the load is stable against minor variations in things such as the powder charge itself. Look at your graph, loads 10-11-12 are showing a flat spot in velocity, very little change in poi and velocity even though you've increased .4gr of powder. If it were me, I would do another round of testing from 42.8-43.3, (as long as you're not seeing pressure issues) take the group with the lowest SD and load a handful (5-7) and see how they group, this time concentrating on the actual group size. Also, do some research to find out what most guys are using for jump for the RDFs (I've only been shooting ELDs and Hybrids so I can't help) then fine tune your groups with that info.
 
#22
zackm said:
My Advise with the RDF is to jump it further than 0.040" I did not start seeing really great groups until I was jumping close to .120" to .130". I am using the 140 gr under H4350 also. just saying do not be afraid to jump them. my COAL is 2.815 (ogive is 2.182 I believe).
Click to expand...

Can anyone else confirm the RDF needs a long jump?
 
#24
nmsheephunter said:
zackm said:
My Advise with the RDF is to jump it further than 0.040" I did not start seeing really great groups until I was jumping close to .120" to .130". I am using the 140 gr under H4350 also. just saying do not be afraid to jump them. my COAL is 2.815 (ogive is 2.182 I believe).[/QUOTE

How many grains of h4350?
Click to expand...

Sorry did not see this. I use 42.8 gr of h4350 and have used that exact load in 4 different 6.5 creeds and all shoot under .5 moa with it most .25 to .38 consitantly. That is in 1 bergara bmp, 2 ruger RPR's and 1 ruger predator rifle.

i jump them as far as i do for magazine reasons and found that it works. Have had others tell me that anything closer than. 0.040 to 0.050 is not working so i never tried getting close to the lands. Not sure if jumping them that far woukd help you just saying it does not hurt to try because it worked for me. Hope the extra detail helps.
Click to expand...
 
#26
zackm said:
nmsheephunter said:
Sorry did not see this. I use 42.8 gr of h4350 and have used that exact load in 4 different 6.5 creeds and all shoot under .5 moa with it most .25 to .38 consitantly. That is in 1 bergara bmp, 2 ruger RPR's and 1 ruger predator rifle.

i jump them as far as i do for magazine reasons and found that it works. Have had others tell me that anything closer than. 0.040 to 0.050 is not working so i never tried getting close to the lands. Not sure if jumping them that far woukd help you just saying it does not hurt to try because it worked for me. Hope the extra detail helps.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I found a load for them with 42.6 and .120 off also.
Click to expand...
 
#27
Birddog6424 said:
Load 9 is just a good group. I'm not so certain is actually a node.2 and 3 are a node, very close poi and stacked velocity. Only 7fps separating them and single digit SD's.

I think you are also coming into a node at the top. I would be curious to see what 43.3 looks like. If it has a velocity really close to 43.1 and another single digit SD, I would say that would be a great load. I've long since stopped doing ladders and OCW testing. You can find accuracy nodes with a good chrono. No dependency on shooting good groups or interpreting sloughed data because you didn't. Find the stacked velocities and it is quite often a single digit SD and an accuracy node. Play with seating depth to tighten the group.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by stacked velocities, little change in speed amounts 3 or 4 charge weights? Could you go into a little more detail on this? It's always windy here and a reliable method of finding a node without skewed data would be very nice indeed.
 
#29
I shoot the 105 rdf in my 6mm Creedmoor and I have also seen that the rdf works best with a long jump. I'm jumping mine @ .060, and I don't see anything wrong with trying longer jumps. Though be mindful of how you're changing the volume of the case when seating the bullet deeper. It could change your velocities slightly the deeper you go.
 
#30
Just finished testing seating depths, 20 thou off lands did the best for me. Anything above 40 thou the groups were garbage. From 40 to 5 thou the groups were respectable. YMMV
 
#31
Stpilot12 said:
What Birddog said... for the OCW you're NOT looking for "group size" i.e. POI in relation to each other.. Your looking for the poi to be closest to the point of AIM. You re trying to find the accuracy node, a point where the load is stable against minor variations in things such as the powder charge itself. Look at your graph, loads 10-11-12 are showing a flat spot in velocity, very little change in poi and velocity even though you've increased .4gr of powder. If it were me, I would do another round of testing from 42.8-43.3, (as long as you're not seeing pressure issues) take the group with the lowest SD and load a handful (5-7) and see how they group, this time concentrating on the actual group size. Also, do some research to find out what most guys are using for jump for the RDFs (I've only been shooting ELDs and Hybrids so I can't help) then fine tune your groups with that info.
Click to expand...

Not trying to nitpick here, just clarify. You are not looking for POI to be near point of aim, you are looking for 2-3 loads that impact to the same area on the target (for example 3 loads throw high and left). You are looking for a pattern in the barrel harmonics that gives you a margin of error to be off on your powder charge by .2 or .3 grains and still impact in the group. This node should also provide a certain amount of temperature stability.
 
#33
Found my load with the Nosler RDF .050 off lands. Three shots. POA=POI.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i29.photobucket.com\/albums\/c280\/jsenuta\/20170614_121850_zpszajqouav.jpg"}[/IMG2]
 
Last edited:
#34
Very nice group! I can't get my loads to group well so I just ordered a bunch of Berger Hybrids.

Your grouping is encouraging me to keep trying the RDF's.

Are you measuring for runout? I don't have a gauge and I am wondering if they are sensitive to runout which is why I'm having problems getting a tight group. I'm a sub-0.5 MOA shooter and I can't get them below about 0.8 MOA.

 
#35
Here is my weekend outing data. I was using the method the 6.5 Guys had posted in youtube using velocity to locate the nodes and go from there. The first 10 shots were just one shot of each load for velocity and then the most consistent loads I shot and chronoed again. I wasn't really looking at my groups too much as this was virgin brass and I had to seat to mag length for the RPR I was shooting out of. I'll need to adjust my seating lengths some but I expect I'm about there. None of these loads showed pressure signs. All shots were taken with the Magnetospeed mounted so I'm not sure how much that would affect group size anyway.
 

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#37
https://imgur.com/gallery/hjgYr

First time shooting the rdf's. Settled on 42 grains to keep brass in better shape. I had primer pockets getting lose on me when I was shooting 43.1 grains under 140 Barnes match burners. I have some rounds loaded .100 and .120 off the lands but didn't get around to shooting them yesterday. Looks like they like a .025 then start tightening up again at .080. As you can see these groups are from a 600 dollar gun. Can't complain.
 
#38
Patruck825 said:
Alright just finished up and got some results, i think i am headed in the right direction. What do you guys think?

Nosler 140gr RDF
New Hornady Brass
CCI BR2
40 thou off lands
2.2040 CBTO

I shot a 4 shot group, and then attached the magnetospeed for another 4 shot group to get speed since i have noticed my groups change with the magnetospeed.

Appears to have been settling into a node around 43.0 - 43.2. Might try the next test with 43.1 and 43.3 and see what it does. I think i may have missed a lower node with my starting at 41.6. No signs of pressure anywhere.

41.6 - 2778fps
SD: 11.9

41.8 - 2795fps
SD: 14.6

42.0 - 2807fps
SD: 15.2

42.2 - 2819fps
SD: 10.0

42.4 - 2828fps
SD: 11.0

42.6- 2858fps
SD: 22.1

42.8 - 2869fps
SD: 11.2

43.0 - 2876fps
SD: 9.5

43.2 - 2905fps
SD: 7.8

<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/ModernDayTragedy/media/56E0083C-5D6A-468E-8F13-B06DDD823D56.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/ModernDayTragedy/56E0083C-5D6A-468E-8F13-B06DDD823D56.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 56E0083C-5D6A-468E-8F13-B06DDD823D56.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/ModernDayTragedy/media/9986A34A-FC80-4367-AA98-36D7DEC8482B.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/ModernDayTragedy/9986A34A-FC80-4367-AA98-36D7DEC8482B.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9986A34A-FC80-4367-AA98-36D7DEC8482B.jpg"></a>
Click to expand...

What length is your barrel?
 
#39
sig2009 said:
Found my load with the Nosler RDF .050 off lands. Three shots. POA=POI.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i29.photobucket.com\/albums\/c280\/jsenuta\/20170614_121850_zpszajqouav.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Click to expand...

What kind of velocity are you getting with that load and what length of barrel?
 
#42
sig2009 said:
2602 fps 20" Tikka barrel. SD 8/ES 16. 2600 fps out of a 20" barrel is all I can get for velocity with 42gn H4350..
Click to expand...

I am getting 2640 fps with single digit sd out of my 260 CTR 20" with 43.4 of 4451 with a suppressor. Getting ready to put a 24" Bartlein 6.5 Creedmore barrel on it and try some RE 16 that I just got ahold of. I also have a new CTR 6.5 take off barrel that I will switch for hunting. I will probably run the 143 ELDx out of it.
 
#47
Stpilot12 said:
What Birddog said... for the OCW you're NOT looking for "group size" i.e. POI in relation to each other.. Your looking for the poi to be closest to the point of AIM. You re trying to find the accuracy node, a point where the load is stable against minor variations in things such as the powder charge itself. Look at your graph, loads 10-11-12 are showing a flat spot in velocity, very little change in poi and velocity even though you've increased .4gr of powder. If it were me, I would do another round of testing from 42.8-43.3, (as long as you're not seeing pressure issues) take the group with the lowest SD and load a handful (5-7) and see how they group, this time concentrating on the actual group size. Also, do some research to find out what most guys are using for jump for the RDFs (I've only been shooting ELDs and Hybrids so I can't help) then fine tune your groups with that info.
Click to expand...

+1
 
#48
Running a 22 inch custom Creedmoor. Have some small primer cratering, but no ejector marks. I think i Just have a fast barrel.

140 RDF
Prime Recycled Brass
CCI 450
43.6gr RL 16
AVG- 2884
SD- 8
The load is very compressed with these long bullets. I shot a one hole three shot group after playing with the bullets .010 off the lands, but because of the compression, the seating length is very inconsistent. Very bad luck with the RDF. Going to try a different bullet. Any suggestions for less sensitive bullets?
 
#49
39.7-42.5
Hornady Brass
140 rdf
RL16

Is that kind of the range everyone is starting at for an ocw ladder? I just want to find a safe node in the 2800’s out of a 24 inch bbl. think 42.5 would be enough to get me to the 2800’s?
 
#50
260284 said:
I am loading up a ladder with the Peterson SRP brass. I am starting at 40.5 because or the lower case capacity. I will post up results when I get a chance to shoot. I just put a 23.5" battle in on my Tikka CTR.
Click to expand...

I ended up at 41.4 gr of Re16 with Peterson brass and CCI450s .035-.040" off the lands. Getting 2808 fps and SD of 8 with the above barrel suppressed. I was at 41.6 with the 143 ELDX for a hunting load, but I started to see some pressure with the RDF and 41.6. My velocity was the same at 23 and 56 degrees 2 weeks apart.
 
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