Range Report 6.5 Creedmoor weight and velocity

[gunsnjeeps]

I was looking at 6.5 CM and 7.62x51 as to which was "better". The claim was that 6.5 had more retained energy farther out. When I ran numbers on the two 6.5 CM never had more retained energy.

My question is what weight bullet and velocity are you shooting? I need a couple of velocities to compare with my 175 grain .308 results.

 

[nn8734]

I’m shooting 130 Bergers in my AXMC Proof 6.5 creedmoor. Can’t speak directly to kinetic energy on target vs the 175 smk (I shoot this in my M40A5) but I can tell you the 130B arrives on target noticeably quicker than the 175 at 800+.

Shot them both one day a couple weeks ago at a 2/3 ipsc placed at 1k, the creedmoor first. When I switched to the A5 I thought I was initially missing the target then heard the “ding” and would see it move a little. I had gotten used to the 130 arriving as fast as it did and was the first time shooting a 6.5 and 308 side by side.

Both my rifles use hand loads.

130 Berger mean MV: 2930
175 SMK mean MV: 2715

 

[TxWelder35]

Assuming 24-26” bbl for the 6.5cm

2900 FPS with a 130 hybrid
2800 FPS with a 140 hybrid

both of those speeds are easily achieved without pushing hard.

the wind drift Is also a big factor. Looking at 40% less wind drift

 

[gigamortis]

I'm a big fan of the Berger 130gr AR hybrids. Inside of 1K, they easily hang with the 140 class projectiles. You can usually run a 130gr about 100fps faster than a 140gr.

 

[Steel head]

For out to 1000ish 130’s are awesome.

 

[Hondo64d]

For out to 1000ish 130’s are awesome.

The last match I shot I used 130 AR Hybrids at about 2900 ish. I was one of only five shooters that cleaned the “long range“ stage, 5 shots each at 1000 and 1200 with a little wind, about 9mph if I remember correctly. I have no more concerns about the 130s at distance. Now, it’s a matter of which bullet the rifle likes the best.

John

 

[clcustom1911]

I was looking at 6.5 CM and 7.62x51 as to which was "better". The claim was that 6.5 had more retained energy farther out. When I ran numbers on the two 6.5 CM never had more retained energy.

My question is what weight bullet and velocity are you shooting? I need a couple of velocities to compare with my 175 grain .308 results.

Run your numbers with the following:

Matching atmospherics. 5 mph L ---> R crosswind

6.5, 130gr, g7 0.289, MV 2900
6.5, 142, g7 0.305, MV 2725

7.62, 175gr, g7 0.243, MV 2650

Put distance at 1000 yards.

Which one(s) has/have higher retained velocity, energy, and less wind drift.


Take you're time, its the internet.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Run your numbers with the following:

Matching atmospherics. 5 mph L ---> R crosswind

6.5, 130gr, g7 0.289, MV 2900
6.5, 142, g7 0.305, MV 2725

7.62, 175gr, g7 0.243, MV 2650

Put distance at 1000 yards.

Which one(s) has/have higher retained velocity, energy, and less wind drift.


Take you're time, its the internet.

Not questioning wind on the lighter faster bullet. I have M118LR velocity from my rifle but no on hand for 6.5 CM. I'll have to get my laptop out to run numbers and post what I have. What is your barrel length on those 6.5 velocities? If we were pre COVID, I'd buy a Ruger in 6.5 and a second Strike Eagle. I'm losing interest in building a large frame AR in 6.5, but this year has been demotivating. Maybe when parts are plentiful again and I get back on travel.

 

[clcustom1911]

Not questioning wind on the lighter faster bullet. I have M118LR velocity from my rifle but no on hand for 6.5 CM. I'll have to get my laptop out to run numbers and post what I have. What is your barrel length on those 6.5 velocities? If we were pre COVID, I'd buy a Ruger in 6.5 and a second Strike Eagle. I'm losing interest in building a large frame AR in 6.5, but this year has been demotivating. Maybe when parts are plentiful again and I get back on travel.

Thats out of my 24" Tikka T3x TacA1.

 

[Onewolf42]

I ran the numbers on my .308 caliber and it shows 1828 ft/lbs of energy at 1000 yds.



It's a 230gr A-Tip from a 300 PRC.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

I ran the numbers on my .308 caliber and it shows 1828 ft/lbs of energy at 1000 yds.



It's a 230gr A-Tip from a 300 PRC.

They say speed kills. At the muzzle a .45 ACP is only 368 ft/lbs. (230gr@850fps)

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Run your numbers with the following:

Matching atmospherics. 5 mph L ---> R crosswind

6.5, 130gr, g7 0.289, MV 2900
6.5, 142, g7 0.305, MV 2725

7.62, 175gr, g7 0.243, MV 2650

Put distance at 1000 yards.

Which one(s) has/have higher retained velocity, energy, and less wind drift.


Take you're time, its the internet.

For comparison I used the following:
My chrono data for M118LR (2723 fps/175gr/24inch Savage Palma).
Sierra Max load for their 142gr SMK @ 2823 fps, their data lists it as a 24 inch barrel.
Velocities and energy plotted from Sierra Infinity 7.3.4. The problem is trying to compare other brands or coefficients. (Sierra doesn't have a 130 gr profile in the load data for my version. They do have a 130rg TGK)

At the muzzle the 6.5 is 2823 fps and 2512 ft/lbs and the .308 is 2723 fps and 2880 ft/lbs.
At 800 yards the 6.5 is 1682 fps and 892 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1515 fps and 892 ft/lbs.
At 900 yards the 6.5 is 1562 fps and 769 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1401 fps and 762 ft/lbs.
At 1000 yards the 6.5 is 1452 fps and 664 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1299 and 656 ft/lbs.

Technically that makes my statement that it "never has more retained energy" wrong because it has 7 to 9 ft/lbs more energy. The way people sound in some posts it had much more energy than that.

To answer wind drift question at 1K with 5 mph 90 degrees, 6.5 is 37.11 inches, .308 is 56.44 inches. A .224 80gr SMK has 61 inches, the only time I shot a .223 at 1K the wind let off and the impact was between targets.

 

[clcustom1911]

For comparison I used the following:
My chrono data for M118LR (2723 fps/175gr/24inch Savage Palma).
Sierra Max load for their 142gr SMK @ 2823 fps, their data lists it as a 24 inch barrel.
Velocities and energy plotted from Sierra Infinity 7.3.4. The problem is trying to compare other brands or coefficients. (Sierra doesn't have a 130 gr profile in the load data for my version. They do have a 130rg TGK)

At the muzzle the 6.5 is 2823 fps and 2512 ft/lbs and the .308 is 2723 fps and 2880 ft/lbs.
At 800 yards the 6.5 is 1682 fps and 892 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1515 fps and 892 ft/lbs.
At 900 yards the 6.5 is 1562 fps and 769 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1401 fps and 762 ft/lbs.
At 1000 yards the 6.5 is 1452 fps and 664 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1299 and 656 ft/lbs.

Technically that makes my statement that it "never has more retained energy" wrong because it has 7 to 9 ft/lbs more energy. The way people sound in some posts it had much more energy than that.

To answer wind drift question at 1K with 5 mph 90 degrees, 6.5 is 37.11 inches, .308 is 56.44 inches. A .224 80gr SMK has 61 inches, the only time I shot a .223 at 1K the wind let off and the impact was between targets.

So, the 6.5 142 has more retained energy, more velocity, and less wind drift than the 175. Your "never" statement isn't just "technically" wrong. Its wrong.

Advantages? More velocity, slightly more energy, and between 35-40% less wind drift. The wind is probably best advantage so if you get a wind call off by a couple mph, the 6.5 is more forgiving.

The new 130 Matchking used in Prime Ammo has a g7 of .287 or .289.

 

[Steel head]

For comparison I used the following:
My chrono data for M118LR (2723 fps/175gr/24inch Savage Palma).
Sierra Max load for their 142gr SMK @ 2823 fps, their data lists it as a 24 inch barrel.
Velocities and energy plotted from Sierra Infinity 7.3.4. The problem is trying to compare other brands or coefficients. (Sierra doesn't have a 130 gr profile in the load data for my version. They do have a 130rg TGK)

At the muzzle the 6.5 is 2823 fps and 2512 ft/lbs and the .308 is 2723 fps and 2880 ft/lbs.
At 800 yards the 6.5 is 1682 fps and 892 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1515 fps and 892 ft/lbs.
At 900 yards the 6.5 is 1562 fps and 769 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1401 fps and 762 ft/lbs.
At 1000 yards the 6.5 is 1452 fps and 664 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1299 and 656 ft/lbs.

Technically that makes my statement that it "never has more retained energy" wrong because it has 7 to 9 ft/lbs more energy. The way people sound in some posts it had much more energy than that.

To answer wind drift question at 1K with 5 mph 90 degrees, 6.5 is 37.11 inches, .308 is 56.44 inches. A .224 80gr SMK has 61 inches, the only time I shot a .223 at 1K the wind let off and the impact was between targets.

If your wanting down range energy look at the 140’s vs 168/175’s
If you want flat shooting and mild recoil the 130’s shine.

The last match I shot I used 130 AR Hybrids at about 2900 ish. I was one of only five shooters that cleaned the “long range“ stage, 5 shots each at 1000 and 1200 with a little wind, about 9mph if I remember correctly. I have no more concerns about the 130s at distance. Now, it’s a matter of which bullet the rifle likes the best.

John

For competition, fun or smaller critters the 130’s kick ass.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

1 to 1.5% energy isn't a huge difference. The question wasn't wind drift it was how every one says more energy at 1k. Not saying my next rifle or at least barrel won't be a 6.5 CM, just that now I have an apples to apples comparison.

Thank you for real world velocities for comparison. Generally, Sierra is conservative in their loading. It seems that in this load they are pretty close.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

For competition, fun or smaller critters the 130’s kick ass.

I'll have to look at the 130's when I get to that point.

 

[Supersubes]

For comparison I used the following:
My chrono data for M118LR (2723 fps/175gr/24inch Savage Palma).
Sierra Max load for their 142gr SMK @ 2823 fps, their data lists it as a 24 inch barrel.
Velocities and energy plotted from Sierra Infinity 7.3.4. The problem is trying to compare other brands or coefficients. (Sierra doesn't have a 130 gr profile in the load data for my version. They do have a 130rg TGK)

At the muzzle the 6.5 is 2823 fps and 2512 ft/lbs and the .308 is 2723 fps and 2880 ft/lbs.
At 800 yards the 6.5 is 1682 fps and 892 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1515 fps and 892 ft/lbs.
At 900 yards the 6.5 is 1562 fps and 769 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1401 fps and 762 ft/lbs.
At 1000 yards the 6.5 is 1452 fps and 664 ft/lbs and the .308 is 1299 and 656 ft/lbs.

Technically that makes my statement that it "never has more retained energy" wrong because it has 7 to 9 ft/lbs more energy. The way people sound in some posts it had much more energy than that.

To answer wind drift question at 1K with 5 mph 90 degrees, 6.5 is 37.11 inches, .308 is 56.44 inches. A .224 80gr SMK has 61 inches, the only time I shot a .223 at 1K the wind let off and the impact was between targets.

So you answered your question. More energy at 1k.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

"Real World" shots.
That's where the proof is at.
The 6.5 Creedmoor pretty much won me over, after a couple of plinking sessions.
A pleasure to use, and consistent.
l have no intention of retiring my .308, but am definitely enjoying the change.

 

[lte82]

140 hybrid @ 2800 vs 175 smk @ 2700

185 juggernaut @ 2600

144 hybrid @ 2750

147 ELD @ 2750

130 hybrid @ 2950

Yes, the 6.5 has less drop & drift, and in general more energy at distance, with the right bullets anyway.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

140 hybrid @ 2800 vs 175 smk @ 2700

Yes, the 6.5 has less drop & drift, and in general more energy at distance, with the right bullets anyway.

Could be an environmental difference but your 175 data ends up about 85% of the Sierra data at 2700.

Numbers like those are why I was asking for 6.5 data. That big switch between 600 and 800 yards

 

[lte82]

Could be an environmental difference but your 175 data ends up about 85% of the Sierra data at 2700.

Not environmental. The G7 on a 175 SMK through 5 barrels has trued up to no more than .245 for me. I used .243 as the G7. Sierra lists the sectional density at .264, not the same as the G7. Their G1 is all over the place too, but assuming you use a G1 of ~.490, you should get around the same numbers.

Regardless, the 185 juggernaut is about the best bullet you can get for a 308 while maintaining a decent velocity and high BC. Even that doesn't quite hold up against a 6.5 using anything from a 130 hybrid to a 147 eld at distance.

Does that make the 308 useless or "outdated"? Hell no. It's still a great caliber, offers tons of barrel life, and has significantly more energy inside 200 yards or so.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Unfortunately I don't have a lot of gathered data from different ranges. I have the chrono data and 100 yard zero on the old scope, five or six thousand yard matches, and one match at 300 and 600 yards then back to 1000. The old scope was an older Tasco World Class with an 1/8 minute per click and no zero stop. The elevation knob went about a quarter rotation at the bottom after the reticle bottomed out. So I didn't shoot it much. New scope this summer but lack of local matches, so just a 100 yard zero for now. First match was get the 100 yard zero with m118lr then shoot a long range match at Quantico. Using the chrono and Sierra software I was low left in the 8 ring at 1k. I should digout the 300 and 600 zero and see how it aligns with the software.

 

[lte82]

Ditch the Sierra software and just buy a kestrel with applied ballistics. It does everything, no more guessing.

 

[clcustom1911]

Ditch the Sierra software and just buy a kestrel with applied ballistics. It does everything, no more guessing.

Strelok Pro is fantastic as well.