6.5 PRC in Remington 700 Long Action?

[zog]

I see a forum for stupid marksmanship questions, but not for stupid rifle build questions, so I'm putting this here . . .

I'm looking to build, or maybe just switch barrels, off a Remington 700 .270 SS action. I want to change calibers but I don't have an understanding of how different cartridges work in the action itself.

Of course I know you can't put a long cartridge in a short action, but what about a shorter cartridge in a long action? Can that be done, and what are the consequences?

Realizing this could be a long answer, can somebody direct me to a reference showing what calibers can be used with which Remington actions?

Specifically I'm thinking about 6.5 PRC or 300 PRC in this Remington 700 long action.

With Remington 700, is there only short or long, and no other sizes?

 

[spife7980]

You have two factors. Action length and bolt face diameter. As far as caliber goes the action doesnt care what caliber the barrels bore is.

Chambering has two aspects, action length and bot face diameter.

If you have a 270 win then you have a .473" bolt face and you could change to any other .473 bolt face cambering and be fine. If you wanted to go from your 270's .473" bolt face to a PRC .540" magnum bolt face then you would have to machine your bolt out larger and means isnt an easy swap.


So yes, there are only to remington action lengths, short and long, but each of those lengths has a bolt face diameter associated with the bolt that has been fitted to the action and is a variable which is independent of action length.

 

[Jerry m]

if you have a .270 (.30-06) boltface consider a 6.5-284. It will do everything a 6.5 PRC will do without the headaches. Plus Lapua brass is available. If you are set on the 6.5 PRC sell your action and buy another.

Good ;uck

Jerry

 

[zog]

if you have a .270 (.30-06) boltface consider a 6.5-284. It will do everything a 6.5 PRC will do without the headaches. Plus Lapua brass is available. If you are set on the 6.5 PRC sell your action and buy another.

Good ;uck

Jerry

Makes sense. I have done some background reading up on 6.5-284 and realized it was a difficult choice as they seem nearly identical in performance. That would be a great choice indeed.

What headaches? You mean action change headaches, or limited availability headaches?

I learned a lot from two short answers - Thanks!!

Edit - so now it goes from an action question to a cartridge question - is 6.5-284 much different than just staying with .270 then?

 

[spife7980]

What headaches? You mean action change headaches, or limited availability headaches?

The headaches are having your .473" bolt machined open to .540" and any alterations to extractor and ejector that would have to be done to make it functional. Especially since youll be speinding probably 300 bucks on it and you can have another factory rem700 action with a proper bolt face in hand for ~350.

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Or you can get a trued one for 450 (though threads remain untouched for remage comparability)

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[zog]

The headaches are having your .473" bolt machined open to .540" and any alterations to extractor and ejector that would have to be done to make it functional. Especially since youll be speinding probably 300 bucks on it and you can have another factory rem700 action with a proper bolt face in hand for 350.

Got it thanks. Looks like maybe I should go for 6.5-284 as I have shot it before and heard a lot of good about it as well. So the 6.5-284 is the same exact .473" boltface diameter as my .270?

 

[spife7980]

Got it thanks. With this I've decided I'm going for 6.5-284 as I have shot it before and heard a lot of good about it as well. So the 6.5-284 is the same exact .473" boltface diameter as my .270?

Yeah, a 6.5x284 barrel should screw in and shoot just fine.

One thing to note is that the x284 case has a rebated case rim, it it grows in diameter ahead of the case rim. Read up on potential feeding issues. If the mag lips dont allow the case up high enough for the bolt to catch the rim it could just catch the case wall and slide over it instead of pushing it.

 

[zog]

OK next stupid question, and I realize I should probably do a new information search for this question . . .

assuming that the feeding is not an issue, I could buy a new barrel from somebody like Lilja or Proof or Christensen that is (of course) chambered correctly, and I can change my caliber.

Is screwing in a new barrel like doing a switch that a reasonably handy guy could do in my garage, or something that needs to be left to a gunsmith?

 

[zog]

If the mag lips dont allow the case up high enough for the bolt to catch the rim it could just catch the case wall and slide over it instead of pushing it.

Is this something I could test ahead of time by trying out a 6.5-284 cartridge up from my mag into the bolt face, being careful not to slide the bolt all the way home?

 

[XLR308]

With an action that is precise enough to have shouldered pre fits made for it then yes it would be that simple.
In your case a Remage set up would be your option.
That is unless you had the action blueprinted and had the same Smith do the barrel work.

 

[zog]

OK - I looked up Remage and I can see what's going on.

This has now wandered into an entirely different topic for which I'm sure there are many threads and sticky's, so I will head there.

 

[spife7980]

Is this something I could test ahead of time by trying out a 6.5-284 cartridge up from my mag into the bolt face, being careful not to slide the bolt all the way home?

Yeah, that should be helpful. It’s probably just a matter of adjusting the feedlips to properly present the case inside the action but you know how Murphy’s law goes, if there is a rule I’m going to be the exception and get fucked over. But that’s just my luck lol

I think the magnums vs the standard long actions may actually have slightly different feedrails for a bdl (bottom door latch) to correctly touch the respective cartridge sizes but in a dbm (drop box magazine) that’s not really an issue as they are usually fed from the mag center instead of off set to each side and touching the action. I’ve never investigated it but I have read something to that effect before.

And yeah, remage just uses a jam nut to correctly hold the barrel in position rather than having that point of contact precisely cut into the barrel itself. The remage allows the manufacturer to create a bunch of identical barrels which the end user can then position with the help of a depth gauge (go gauge).
I really like my remages.

 

[zog]

Yeah, that should be helpful. It’s probably just a matter of adjusting the feedlips to properly present the case inside the action but you know how Murphy’s law goes, if there is a rule I’m going to be the exception and get fucked over. But that’s just my luck lol

I think the magnums vs the standard long actions may actually have slightly different feedrails for a bdl (bottom door latch) to correctly touch the respective cartridge sizes but in a dbm (drop box magazine) that’s not really an issue as they are usually fed from the mag center instead of off set to each side and touching the action. I’ve never investigated it but I have read something to that effect before.

And yeah, remage just uses a jam nut to correctly hold the barrel in position rather than having that point of contact precisely cut into the barrel itself. The remage allows the manufacturer to create a bunch of identical barrels which the end user can then position with the help of a depth gauge (go gauge).
I really like my remages.

Thanks man - I may be wandering into an unknown cave here and should probably leave breadcrumbs or string behind me. How would an amateur get things like headspace, etc precise enough?

 

[spife7980]

A go gauge is a little chunk of metal that’s cut to mirror the vital points of contact between the bolt face and the chamber shoulders.

Once you have the barrel started in the action threads you will insert this in the chamber and then thread the barrel in until you can feel it bottom out against the bolt face. You are then at proper headspace. Tighten the nut down against the action to lock the barrel in place and you are good to go. If you add a layer or two of scotch tape to the back of the go gauge you create a nogo gauge which is .004 longer to ensure you don’t have it too deep.
The bolt should close on a go and be prevented from going down on a nogo.

It’s the same as how savage barrels work.

 

[zog]

How much torque am I likely to encounter when I first try to loosen the barrel in a 12 year old stainless rifle? (Well kept but still was out in the weather during the hunt)

 

[spife7980]

How much torque am I likely to encounter when I first try to loosen the barrel in a 12 year old stainless rifle? (Well kept but still was out in the weather during the hunt)

No clue, it caries. I put a big breaker pipe on my action wrench and it was nothing. Some say it was still tough for them. Soak it in penetrating oil, put it muzzle down and squirt some inside the action so it can soak down into them.

 

[zog]

No clue, it caries. I put a big breaker pipe on my action wrench and it was nothing. Some say it was still tough for them. Soak it in penetrating oil, put it muzzle down and squirt some inside the action so it can soak down into them.
View attachment 7183889

Yep, that's what I figure I would be up against. I can see I need proper clamping tools, not pieces of tire padding in a bench vise and in a big pipe wrench on the action.

 

[Another Casual]

Side question on the caliber side, do you reload? I'd factor that into your choice of caliber and then chamber when ordering.

 

[zog]

Side question on the caliber side, do you reload? I'd factor that into your choice of caliber and then chamber when ordering.

No I do not. Would that change your mind if you were me? If so what calibers would you recommend to upgrade the ballistics on this action with little to no machining re-work?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Side question on the caliber side, do you reload? I'd factor that into your choice of caliber and then chamber when ordering.

Valid point, there is approximately zero factory 6.5-284 ammunition.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

No I do not. Would that change your mind if you were me? If so what calibers would you recommend to upgrade the ballistics on this action with little to no machining re-work?

I would sell you action and buy something else.

 

[spife7980]

Oh shit, yeah, the normal non reloading long action cartridges are kind of barren of anything but hunting ammo. I mean, there are options but they are expensive.
I might not sell it, 270 is great for hunting, but a fresh start for something you can shoot a lot of for a fair price (6.5 creed) would be a much more appealing option to me.

Or better yet hop in and start reloading.

 

[zog]

Valid point, there is approximately zero factory 6.5-284 ammunition.

Oh shit, yeah, the normal non reloading long action cartridges are kind of barren of anything but hunting ammo. I mean, there are options but they are expensive.
I might not sell it, 270 is great for hunting, but a fresh start for something you can shoot a lot of for a fair price (6.5 creed) would be a much more appealing option to me.

Or better yet hop in and start reloading.

Yes I would prefer to start reloading but right now I move around too much to burden myself with a setup and supplies to move with me. I have helped friends and family reload many times and really like it. Hey - maybe friends or family would be a good way to go. Or maybe find a reloader on Craigs or Arms (never occurred to me before).

Would 6.5 Creedmoor be an easy build from .270?

My question all started with me wanting to upgrade the trigger and barrel on my old friend, the .270. Then I ask "why upgrade and leave it at that old cartridge when everybody seems to be saying how great some of the new cartridges are?" I mean, I don't think I would buy a rifle just to change from .270 to 6.5 crd; it's deciding if a new caliber would make an upgrade more appealing (and fun).

 

[zog]

Valid point, there is approximately zero factory 6.5-284 ammunition.

Roughly, give or take zero.

I just did a quick search for 6.5-284 on Lucky Gunner ("your search turned up no results"), and Brownells (3 brands at $3.55/round, all "out of stock").
THANKS for the tip.

 

[Another Casual]

280ai if you want to keep hunting with some long range target shooting. Factory ammo from Hornady, federal, and nosler. It takes full advantage of the long action. Save your brass and you will be ready when you start to load. Also hard to beat the old 30-06. the 270 itself is fine, but as a reloader the modern bullet selection is so-so. If you just want a 6.5 creedmoor, then I'd keep the 270 as is and start saving for something else or a used build from here. Easier than trying to make the best of both worlds for the .270 reborn

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Why do you want to switch calibers?

6.5x55? Ammo is readily available.

Long actions with a bolt face .DIA of .470 +/-
220 Swift
6mm Remington
240 Weatherby Mag
257 Roberts
25-06 Remington
6.5x55 Swedish
270 Winchester
7x57 Mauser
7x64 Brenneke
280 Remington
30/06 Springfield
8mm Mauser
338/06 A Square
35 Whelen

 

[zog]

Why do you want to switch calibers?

Not sure I do anymore. I was set to upgrade the rifle and seeing if a caliber change would be good to do as long as I am.

But from your list (very helpful, thanks) I am not sure any of those would be worth changing from .270 which I already am used to. I think a few here are trying to tell me that.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Not sure I do anymore. I was set to upgrade the rifle and seeing if a caliber change would be good to do as long as I am.

But from your list (very helpful, thanks) I am not sure any would be better then what I already shoot.

Depends on what you plan on doing with it.

You could buy another bolt for your action if you really wanted to change calibers.They're around $300 and are usually better than the OEM plus a threaded bolt knob.

And to answer your original question just about any short action caliber will shoot in a long action. Some requiring mag modifications, nothing that should scare you.

 

[Squibbler]

I think you were given many good recommendations. But sounds like you are still looking for more horsepower with readily available factory ammo. In that case I'd personally stick to your original thoughts -- 6.5PRC and/or 300 PRC. I built the exact thing awhile back. I won a .30-06 Rem off a raffle and used it as a donor long action to the project. Picked up a PTG bolt with .540 bolt face, also went with larger OD to tighten tolerances (from .696 to .700--if my memory serves me right). Used it with AICS long action mag. Ran and cycled flawlessly with Hornady 6.5 PRC ammo (2.950 COAL). Extremely impressed the quality factory ammo Hornady is putting out. If you ever get into reloading you could then be able to start seating bullets longer and wouldn't experience the limitations of 6.5 PRC in a short action. Another possibility is to add in a WTO switch lug. You could then have a switch barrel between 6.5 PRC and 300 PRC. Both with quality factory ammo available.

Attached pic is long action 6.5 PRC

 

[zog]

Wow this forum has been a lot of help! I decided to go for another entire action or rifle and will just keep the .270 as a back up. A new trigger is a must but anything else is just playing around as a hobby, which I will do with another action. I sure learned a lot in one weekend, hope I can pay you all back.

 

[zog]

So while I was being schooled on this thread, I was also shopping on several classifieds for a different action. Found a Rem 700 .300 wsm barreled short action and jumped on it. I won't be looking to change this caliber even if I goof around with some upgrades.

I will be curious to read up as to the difference between 300 WSM and 300 PRC but hopefully not curious enough to wander into an expensive cave.

 

[zog]

Also, expanding on 2aBaCa's list, I found the following on the Long Range Hunting Forum from 2010. Before PRC came out.

Probably got answers above, but where would 6.5 CM, 6.5 PRC, and 300 PRC or any of the new high fashion cartridges fall?:

"Sometimes when considering a re-barrel and chamber or cartridge change you need to
know what round will work without bolt face and extractor work.

I have a cheat sheet/ready reference and thought I would share it with every anyone
that is interested.

All of these groups of cartridges should interchange without bolt face and extractor
work.( some work on receiver rails may be needed to improve feeding ).

As far as wild cats, whatever the parent case was it should work in the action listed.

I know this list is not complete but it's close.

Short action bolt face dia .384 +/-
17 Rem
204 Ruger
222 Rem
223 Rem.

Short action bolt face dia .470 +/-
225 Win
22/250 Rem
6mm Norma BR
243 Win
250 Savage
260 Rem
6.5/284 Norma
7/08 Rem
284 Win
300 Savage
308 Win
338 Federal
35 Rem
358 Win

Short action bolt face dia .540+/-
223 WSSM
243 WSSM
25 WSSM
7mm Rem SAUM
7mm WSM
300 Rem SAUM
300 WSM
35 WSM
350 Rem Mag.

Long action bolt face dia .470 +/-
220 Swift
6mm Rem
240 Wby Mag
257 Roberts
25-06 Rem
6.5x55 Swedish
270 Win
7x57 Mauser
7x64 Brenneke
280 Rem
30/06 Springfield
8mm Mauser
338/06 A Square
35 Whelen

Long action bolt face dia .540 +/-
257 Wby
264 Win Mag
270 Wby Mag,
7mm Rem Mag
7mm Wby Mag
7 STW
7mm Rem Ultra Mag
300 H & H
300 Win Mag
300 Wby Mag
338/378 Wby
378 Wby Mag
416 Rigby
416 Wby Mag
300 RUM
303 Brit
8mm Rem Mag
338 Win Mag
340 Wby Mag
338 RUM
375 H & H
375 Wby
375 RUM
416 Rem Mag
458 Win Mag
458 Lott.

Long action bolt face dia .585 +/-
30/378 Wby
338 Lapua
460 Wby Mag
470 Nitro Express.

I hope this information helps in deciding what your next build will be and minimize some
of the cost.

J E CUSTOM"

 

[squib-load]

sorry... late to the party and I understand that the op went in another direction.. but just for future reference and to add to the thread about 6.5 PRC vs 6.5-284 conversion I will add my experience .. experiment

I took possession of a "assumed" shot out 6.5-284 hunting rifle that a guy was selling.. and I don't think he knew what he had... he told me he bought it just for the night force that was sitting on it.. and was selling the rifle..

get this.. for 600 bucks.. I got a remington 700 that started life off as a 30-06 (per the '80s serial number check) ... sitting in a MANNERS elite carbon hunting stock WITH MINI CHASSIS ... a 26" CBI Remage hunting profile barrel .. and ~150 new Lapua brass, some previously fired brass ~40 .. some looking rough, and some reloder 17 ..

I think that the seller had no idea what he was doing with reloading since some of the brass showed pressure and some of the loaded rounds that were included, some would have been squibs since he forget to throw powder and the ones that had powder were way on the hot side (NEVER SHOOT ANYONE ELSES HAND LOADS... PERIOD)

so I did some testing with the reloder 17 and was not happy with the powder 140 bullet performance.. velocities that I wanted from this using 17 were on the hot side and pressure spiky ... and groupings sucked..

I used some (apr ~54) grains of reloder 26 and the magic was happening .. 3050 fps and 1/4 inch groups at 100...
damn .. this barrel shoots.. now its a lightweight hunting profile barrel... so not to be used for string fire .. especially in a overbore "magnum - ish" 6.5x284... but one hell of a hunting rig.. and 3000+ fps with a mild load and no pressure signs past 55 grains and 3100fps.. (thats where I stopped) never got pressure.. 140g bullets and r-26 are magic in this caliber..

so -- remage works for 6.5-284 for a conversion 700 long action (30-06 in this case) .. and it shoots...

so , ordered a varmint profile remage from CBI (melonited) and dropped the whole rig into a XLR envy
still load testing but 54 is still a node and with this new barrel velocity is a little lower 2980 or so during the first 10 shots (still working it up) but accuracy is under .5MOA so far and I believe the lower velocity is due to the melanite treating.. slicker, not building as much pressure.. but accuracy is great and r26 is really easy on the brass

yes .. 6.5-284 feeding great out of magpul long action magnum AICS mags . no modifications to action or magazines and they hold 5 rounds...

further.. with a little sanding on the magpul bottom 'plastic' I dropped that into the manners stock with mini-chassis and it works fine there too ... so I can go BDL internal mag or AICS drop mag with it now... awesome..

so to finalize... took old 30-06 long action 700 and turned it into a match / hunting caliber swapping multi chassis one action does it all rig....

and it shoots...

 

[Maggot]

A go gauge is a little chunk of metal that’s cut to mirror the vital points of contact between the bolt face and the chamber shoulders.
View attachment 7183875
Once you have the barrel started in the action threads you will insert this in the chamber and then thread the barrel in until you can feel it bottom out against the bolt face. You are then at proper headspace. Tighten the nut down against the action to lock the barrel in place and you are good to go. If you add a layer or two of scotch tape to the back of the go gauge you create a nogo gauge which is .004 longer to ensure you don’t have it too deep.
The bolt should close on a go and be prevented from going down on a nogo.

It’s the same as how savage barrels work.

Thats so simple I could fubar it without really trying.