6.5 SAUM Help

[blackfoot]

Posted this in the Care and Feeding thread but thought maybe somebody might see it here easier. I'm loading in 7mm SAUM Norma brass, .2962" chamber, 26" stainless Kreiger 5R 1:8.5 barrel on a trued Remington using a PTG bolt and bolted in a Manners T4 with BDL Mini Chassis. Most of the loads I've seen posted for the 140 Hybrid are in the 60-61 grains range (mostly with Remington brass I assume) of H1000. I started at 59 grains today and there are signs of increasing pressure all the way from 59 to 61 grains. When I seat the bullets to jam, there is LESS pressure, all the way to 61 grains the primers are not completely flat although there is some flow into the firing pin hole. With .030" jump, 60.5 grains has the primers completely flat and looks close to piercing a primer. Also get case head flow into the ejector/extractor slot. I'm using Fed 215M primers.

If anybody is using 7mm SAUM Norma brass and has loaded the Hybrids, please share your load. I'm a little dumbfounded at the pressure signs and lack of accuracy. Headspace is OK, neck clearance is OK, neck tension is .002".

 

[bunsen27]

I run .300 SAUM Norma brass and my load is 59.2gr H1000 under a 140gr Berger Hybrid @3125fps (27" 1 in 8.5). I fairly certain the Norma brass has less case capacity than the Remington brass George and others are using. I did and OCW test starting down at 57.5gr up to 60 in 0.3gr increments. When I found my node and confirmed velocity I only went up to 59.5gr (scatter node) What is your case trim length out of curiosity? The old reamer IIRC was 2.025in while the new reamer trim is 2.015in.

 

[blackfoot]

I run .300 SAUM Norma brass and my load is 59.2gr H1000 under a 140gr Berger Hybrid @3125fps (27" 1 in 8.5). I fairly certain the Norma brass has less case capacity than the Remington brass George and others are using. I did and OCW test starting down at 57.5gr up to 60 in 0.3gr increments. When I found my node and confirmed velocity I only went up to 59.5gr (scatter node) What is your case trim length out of curiosity? The old reamer IIRC was 2.025in while the new reamer trim is 2.015in.

I didn't read anywhere that the trim to length changed, just the FB. I do trim to 2.015 though.

 

[MTETM]

I have a fiend who ran into huge pressure spikes with the Norma brass..due to trim length. The brass was stretching and getting too long. When he trimmed it, pressure went away and the rifle went to shooting. IIRC, he is around 61gr H1000 with 140 hybrids.
FYI, I shoot Hybrids in Remington brass at 59.5 gr. for 3085...
Good Luck...

 

[bunsen27]

I didn't read anywhere that the trim to length changed, just the FB. I do trim to 2.015 though.

In the first post of the Care and Feeding thread Pat list 2.025in as trim. About page 5 George indicates 2.020in. The actual post I'm thinking of is probably in the Extreme Hunter thread but that too much to go back through. If you are at 2.015in you are good.

 

[blackfoot]

In the first post of the Care and Feeding thread Pat list 2.025in as trim. About page 5 George indicates 2.020in. The actual post I'm thinking of is probably in the Extreme Hunter thread but that too much to go back through. If you are at 2.015in you are good.

If brass was too long I don't see how it would even chamber? If it did it would feel like you are crimping when you closed the bolt, correct? Either way, I think I'm OK on the trim length. I loaded some starting at 58 grains up to 60 and hope to go to the range today and see what happens.

 

[Raufoss]

2.015 is perfetcly correct

In my case the really maximum i can go is 63.5 grain of H1000
My sweet spot is 61gr in my remington brass trimmed to 2.015 , .015 neck tickness and headspaced at .001 under my go gauge spec.

I jump .020

I use federal 210M for my load.

I assume you know that norma brass have less case capacity. Did you measured your H2O capacity?

Do you have quickload?
I am curious to run some data with you specs if you can give me the H2O, and overall lenght of the loaded round(tell me what is the jump)
You use the hybrids and 215m?

 

[blackfoot]

Remington brass, 73.5 grains of H20, OAL is 2.875 (.030" jump). Berger 140 Hybrids, Krieger 1:8.5 twist 5R barrel @ 26". 215M primers. Toasted the brass with two firings each with less than 60 grains of H1000. Won't hold a primer any longer. I was getting 3212fps with 59 grains H1000

 

[trailrider121]

Blackfoot,

Bummer to hear all your problems with your 6.5 SAUM. I'm curious about your H1000, and wondering if it really is H1000 powder. Something just doesn't add up. I understand every rifle is different, but it shouldn't be giving you all these problems.

 

[Kevin9934]

Cartridge : 6.5 mm RSAUM
Bullet : .264, 140, Berger V
Useable Case Capaci: 66.593 grain H2O = 4.324 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.875 inch = 73.03 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H1000

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 47.20 2272 1604 25042 8999 87.5 1.854
-18.0 80 48.38 2331 1689 26666 9330 89.0 1.809
-16.0 82 49.56 2391 1777 28400 9653 90.5 1.765
-14.0 84 50.74 2451 1867 30251 9966 91.9 1.722
-12.0 86 51.92 2511 1961 32228 10266 93.2 1.681
-10.0 87 53.10 2572 2057 34343 10553 94.4 1.639
-08.0 89 54.28 2633 2155 36605 10824 95.5 1.599
-06.0 91 55.46 2694 2256 39025 11078 96.4 1.550
-04.0 93 56.64 2755 2360 41619 11313 97.3 1.503
-02.0 95 57.82 2816 2466 44399 11527 98.1 1.458
+00.0 97 59.00 2877 2574 47382 11720 98.7 1.414
+02.0 99 60.18 2938 2684 50588 11890 99.2 1.371
+04.0 101 61.36 2999 2796 54035 12036 99.6 1.330
+06.0 103 62.54 3059 2909 57747 12156 99.9 1.290 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 105 63.72 3119 3025 61745 12249 100.0 1.252 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 107 64.90 3179 3141 66067 12317 100.0 1.215 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!​

Cartridge : 6.5 mm RSAUM
Bullet : .264, 140, Berger V
Useable Case Capaci: 66.729 grain H2O = 4.333 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.885 inch = 73.28 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H1000

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 47.20 2269 1601 24966 8998 87.4 1.856
-18.0 80 48.38 2329 1686 26582 9330 89.0 1.811
-16.0 81 49.56 2388 1773 28308 9654 90.5 1.768
-14.0 83 50.74 2448 1863 30150 9967 91.8 1.725
-12.0 85 51.92 2509 1956 32112 10268 93.1 1.683
-10.0 87 53.10 2569 2052 34221 10555 94.3 1.642
-08.0 89 54.28 2630 2150 36468 10827 95.4 1.601
-06.0 91 55.46 2691 2251 38877 11082 96.4 1.553
-04.0 93 56.64 2752 2355 41455 11318 97.3 1.506
-02.0 95 57.82 2813 2460 44218 11534 98.0 1.461
+00.0 97 59.00 2874 2568 47184 11728 98.7 1.417
+02.0 99 60.18 2935 2678 50368 11899 99.2 1.374
+04.0 101 61.36 2995 2789 53789 12046 99.6 1.333
+06.0 103 62.54 3056 2903 57477 12168 99.8 1.293 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 105 63.72 3116 3017 61448 12263 100.0 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 107 64.90 3175 3134 65736 12332 100.0 1.218 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!​

 

[blackfoot]

Lot 1013014 5256

I have 2 lbs of another lot, and some Retumbo I just picked up today. If the Retumbo gives me fits at least it will narrow it down to..............who knows!!!!

 

[blackfoot]

Can you run the Retumbo?

 

[Kevin9934]

This is just data but you can see estimation. You have the data of a charge of 64 gr but with 59/60 gr if you use the data of quickload.

For my personal load i have good correlation with quickload.

 

[Kevin9934]

Cartridge : 6.5 mm RSAUM
Bullet : .264, 140, Berger V
Useable Case Capaci: 66.593 grain H2O = 4.324 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.875 inch = 73.03 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon Retumbo

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 79 48.80 2275 1609 23752 9615 90.4 1.896
-18.0 81 50.02 2336 1696 25285 9971 92.1 1.851
-16.0 83 51.24 2397 1786 26922 10312 93.6 1.806
-14.0 85 52.46 2459 1879 28674 10634 94.9 1.763
-12.0 87 53.68 2521 1975 30545 10936 96.1 1.721
-10.0 89 54.90 2583 2074 32544 11214 97.2 1.679
-08.0 91 56.12 2645 2175 34684 11468 98.1 1.639
-06.0 93 57.34 2707 2278 36976 11695 98.8 1.599
-04.0 95 58.56 2769 2383 39432 11892 99.4 1.549
-02.0 97 59.78 2830 2490 42064 12059 99.7 1.502
+00.0 99 61.00 2891 2598 44888 12193 100.0 1.456
+02.0 101 62.22 2951 2708 47922 12296 100.0 1.412
+04.0 103 63.44 3011 2818 51184 12387 100.0 1.370
+06.0 105 64.66 3070 2930 54694 12475 100.0 1.329
+08.0 107 65.88 3129 3043 58475 12559 100.0 1.289 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 109 67.10 3187 3156 62555 12640 100.0 1.251 ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 99 61.00 3042 2877 55714 11660 100.0 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:

 

[blackfoot]

So theoretically you can't stuff enough Retumbo in to get pressure. I however am going to run from 55 to 60 in .5 grain increments and see what it does.

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Posted this in the Care and Feeding thread but thought maybe somebody might see it here easier. I'm loading in 7mm SAUM Norma brass, .2962" chamber, 26" stainless Kreiger 5R 1:8.5 barrel on a trued Remington using a PTG bolt and bolted in a Manners T4 with BDL Mini Chassis. Most of the loads I've seen posted for the 140 Hybrid are in the 60-61 grains range (mostly with Remington brass I assume) of H1000. I started at 59 grains today and there are signs of increasing pressure all the way from 59 to 61 grains. When I seat the bullets to jam, there is LESS pressure, all the way to 61 grains the primers are not completely flat although there is some flow into the firing pin hole. With .030" jump, 60.5 grains has the primers completely flat and looks close to piercing a primer. Also get case head flow into the ejector/extractor slot. I'm using Fed 215M primers.

If anybody is using 7mm SAUM Norma brass and has loaded the Hybrids, please share your load. I'm a little dumbfounded at the pressure signs and lack of accuracy. Headspace is OK, neck clearance is OK, neck tension is .002".

Is it possible that initially you brass was too short for the chamber & would move forward under firing pin strike ?
When it was jammed that wouldn't happen giving the appearance of less pressure.
Yes you can use Retumbo it gives good velocity.

 

[blackfoot]

55 grains of Retumbo was high pressure and 3100 fps. I'm at a total loss of what to do besides try another barrel.

 

[Fongman]

blackfoot, can you send your gun back to your smith? Something does not seem right. I think I'm about to agree with you about another barrel. It's not cheap shooting that many rounds trying to find a load, I bet your almost to the price of a new barrel.