6.5X284

[huntermanpaul]

I currently shoot a Remington 700 PSS. I have been seeing more about more mention about the 6.5X284 recently for a long range hunting rifle. Any thoughts about switching? What are the pros and cons? How do they compare ballistically?

 

[Bone318]

Re: 6.5X284

ballistically there is no comparison. The 6.5x284 is way beyond a .308. that said, the barrel life is about 2,000 rounds + or - 800 rounds, depending on how hot you run it. .308's can go for thousands of rounds, but loose steam past 600 yds pretty fast. Depending on how much you hunt, a rebarrel may not be an issue for you.

I shot a .308 PSS out to 1k for years with 175 SMK's going 2700 with some success. Don't know if I would have hunted with it past 6 or 7 hundred though.

 

[huntermanpaul]

Re: 6.5X284

Thanks for the help! Pardon my ignorance but can I use my current action and convert it or do I need to get a new action? I am looking at doing it for long range hunting. I originally went with the .308 and it I have a very accurate load, sub moa out to 1000, but the more I shoot it, the more I question it's performance on animals at that kind of range... Also, my wife is a small framed shooter who is just starting to shoot. She likes the .308 for the light recoil. How would they compare in the recoil dept?

 

[tylerw02]

Re: 6.5X284

The 6.5-284 is crippled in a short action. So if you want to mag-feed, you're not going to have much luck. Go with a .260 Rem or 6.5 Creed and get almost the same trajectory and it will mag-feed.

Right now, I've got a .260 running about 2850 fps with 140s. My 6.5-284 would run them 2940. The real difference in the field is not noticeable.

 

[steve123]

Re: 6.5X284

Pro's

140's at 2950-3000 fps.
Lapua brass

Con's

Poor throat and barrel life at those velocities. Groups on mine opened up at 800 rounds.

Comparing to 308, they are polar opposites.

For hunting I'd rather go with a 7mm, 284 Win would be a good choice. Higher BC's with 162 to 180 grain bullets, more thwack, better barrel life.

 

[roggom]

Re: 6.5X284

Paul, the 308 pushing 178 Amax or 175 VLD's has an effective range of approx 700 yards on deer sized game. Over here in CO at 4850ft, a 178 amax has about 1550 fps and 1015 ft lbs at 700Y.

You could easily re-barrel the 308 to 260 or 6.5 creed, the ballistics at 700 are about the same for energy(140's), the 6.5 has approx 300 more fps and less wind deflection. Also a 260 pushing 140's has approx 11.9 lbs of recoil compared to 17.5 of the 308. If you try one of those carbon wrap bbl's might make a lighter rifle to take out in the prairie, but still able to push rounds at the range without heat worries.

You could always put a brake on the 308, I have one on my SPS-tac and my 13yo twin daughters use it for speed goats. Really helps to keep to keep the animal in the scope after the shot.

If you really want to push your terminal ballistics look at some of the 7's. The Davidson Brothers up in Wyo have some really nice shooting systems. They are very pricey though, but something to benchmark a build. They have the 7-LRM which is a 375 Ruger wildcat that can push a 180 VLD to 3100 FPS. The 7mm mag has an effective range of about 850 with 168's, Im sure further with some of the new Berger offerings. OF course these are all long action mag face, so must be a long action.

http://www.gunwerks.com/Shooting-Systems/LR-1000

 

[huntermanpaul]

Re: 6.5X284

Thanks for all the helpful info! I know the Davidson's and you are right. They have some nice stuff but you cry when you buy.

 

[turbo54]

Re: 6.5X284

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">The 6.5-284 is crippled in a short action.</span> So if you want to mag-feed, you're not going to have much luck. Go with a .260 Rem or 6.5 Creed and get almost the same trajectory and it will mag-feed.

Right now, I've got a .260 running about 2850 fps with 140s. My 6.5-284 would run them 2940. The real difference in the field is not noticeable. </div></div>

Is that a fact, or just common thought?

Reason I ask is because I heard the same thing about running a "straight" 284 in a short action - that it would be neutered. After building it, I can absolutely say it gives up little (if anything) to a long action.

The 6.5 bullets are shorter than the high-BC 7's, so I would expect it to fit the short action even better.

 

[Bone318]

Re: 6.5X284

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">The 6.5-284 is crippled in a short action.</span> So if you want to mag-feed, you're not going to have much luck. Go with a .260 Rem or 6.5 Creed and get almost the same trajectory and it will mag-feed.

Right now, I've got a .260 running about 2850 fps with 140s. My 6.5-284 would run them 2940. The real difference in the field is not noticeable. </div></div>

Is that a fact, or just common thought?

Reason I ask is because I heard the same thing about running a "straight" 284 in a short action - that it would be neutered. After building it, I can absolutely say it gives up little (if anything) to a long action.

The 6.5 bullets are shorter than the high-BC 7's, so I would expect it to fit the short action even better. </div></div>

It's a fact. Generally, it might not matter in a hunting rig if you single feed, but the case is just too long to manage well in a short action.

As for the .260, I'm +3 on that

I have built 3 260's, 2 GAPS and a Spartan, and they perform really well out to 1k. It would be an easy way to get better ballistics out of your current rig.

 

[huntermanpaul]

Re: 6.5X284

Single loading them isnt a huge problem because I am currently shooting Berger VLD'S and they are long enough they do not feed well in a mag any ways. I wish I knew that before I bought the $300 mag conversion. haha

 

[turbo54]

Re: 6.5X284

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">The 6.5-284 is crippled in a short action.</span> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that a fact, or just common thought? </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bone318</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a fact. Generally, it might not matter in a hunting rig if you single feed, but the case is just too long to manage well in a short action.

As for the .260, I'm +3 on that

I have built 3 260's, 2 GAPS and a Spartan, and they perform really well out to 1k. It would be an easy way to get better ballistics out of your current rig.

</div></div>

So given the typical 140-142gr bullet used in a 6.5-284, what kinds of charge weights give what kind of velocities in short vs long actions (with equal barrel length)?

With straight 284s, most folks with 28-30" barrels report ~2800-2900 using 53-54gr H4831sc with 175-180gr bullets. My short action 284 gets ~2825 or so from 54gr H4831sc in a 28" bbl.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 6.5X284

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">The 6.5-284 is crippled in a short action.</span> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that a fact, or just common thought? </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bone318</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a fact. Generally, it might not matter in a hunting rig if you single feed, but the case is just too long to manage well in a short action.

As for the .260, I'm +3 on that

I have built 3 260's, 2 GAPS and a Spartan, and they perform really well out to 1k. It would be an easy way to get better ballistics out of your current rig.

</div></div>

So given the typical 140-142gr bullet used in a 6.5-284, what kinds of charge weights give what kind of velocities in short vs long actions (with equal barrel length)?

With straight 284s, most folks with 28-30" barrels report ~2800-2900 using 53-54gr H4831sc with 175-180gr bullets. My short action 284 gets ~2825 or so from 54gr H4831sc in a 28" bbl. </div></div>

The advantage of loading the bullets long is that it frees up a lot of the space that the bullet would take up in a short action, so you can load much more. Your 54gr. load would be running pretty close to max, while in a long action, with the same load you can expect slightly less velocity, more room in the chamber of the round equals less pressure, which equals less velocity. However, they can load a bit more powder in their rifle as opposed to yours because theirs is in a long action, what this means is that the round will be capable of achieving higher velocities than a if it is loaded in a short action. Also keep in mind, a lot of the benchrest guys like to load light to moderate to preserve brass and barrels, a 54gr. load in a long action 284 I would consider to be a moderate load, with the max probably being somewhere around 56-57gr, maybe higher.

 

[TGagnon]

Re: 6.5X284

Most of the gyes I know of shooting 6.5-284's are shooting them because they want the velocity. None of them are loading down by any stretch of the word. I like the cartridge because I get paid to ream the barrels and they already have all the tools but the lathe which keeps me from having to get any other tools.

 

[Guymudrat]

I shoot a 6.5x284 at 600 yds and 800 yds. When my gunsmith (Baity's Custom Gun Works) built this rifle for me---he built in on a long action, 28 inch barrel,
with quick detach mag. The main thing that HE said was to keep the rifle clean---especially the carbon ring that forms in the barrel. You can find this by using a tight fitting nylon brush, feel the resistence with the brush. When you feel a noticeable change in the stroke of the brush --you have found the glazed carbon ring. This needs to be carefully cleaned. If necessary---give it a gentle scrup with JB paste. This carbon ring is said to actually shorten barrel life more than high velocity or copper fouling. But GRANTED--the 6.5x284 does wear barrels. Expect about 1,000-1,500 rounds from any given barrel. The .308 will go many thousand rounds past this count. A consideration is---if you have a rifle built--choose a longer barrel than you would normally shoot. Then after 1,000-1,200 rounds, you can send it to a gunsmith and have 1" cut off both ends of the barrel. Then rechamber and recrown the barrel, because you will have some throat wear and some fish mouthing of the terminal end of the barrel. This rifle will consistently shoot 3/8 MOA--if I do my job. I shoot H4831SC and double weigh each powder charge, with CCI primers, Norma brass, and 142 HPBT grain Sierra's for matches. I have loaded some 140 Ballistic tips for hunting but have not had the opportunity to prove the caliber on game yet. I used the CCI primers because at the time---that was all I could get. I am currently playing with Overall length, to the extent that the magazines will allow. Also I am using Redding type S, bushing dies. Currently I am putting only about 1/1000" tension on the neck--just enough that you can't pull the bullet out with your fingers (For matches). Then for my hunting load, I changed the bushing and have 3/1000" neck tension---
but with that hunting load, I also backed off the lands about 2-3/1,000's. I have also shoot some 139 gr secars and the Berger VLD bullets. Not much difference,
for me in group size---although the Bergers, definately have less drop and shoot a little faster with the same powder charge. Hope some of this is helpful.

 

[6Dasher]

Old thread, but still..

We were running the 6.5-284 at 3050-3100fps using 139 scenars and N165. No pressure signs. Barrel goes out at 1500-2000 rounds, but we shoot 2 man details, no strings.

Now running the 7mm-270WSM with 180's at 3050-3075 also with N165. 1000-1250 rounds average, sometimes more, sometimes less.

Next up is the 300 Yogi using 230s at 3250fps. Barrel lasts shorter than this post

 

[hessian]

I had a 700 in 308 switched to 6.5x284 in '98. had to resize the 284 ww to 6.5. I shoot about 1k rounds per year.Used to shoot >1k but my spine did not like the prone so now its all at 650 or less.I shoot clay pigeons. it's not especially hard to hit 5 or 6 in a row.The guys saying that the barrel is shot after 1k or so rounds are the guys replacing tires and clutches after burning out at every stop sign. If you can shoot, you do not need a magazine.

 

[Guymudrat]

Excuse me Hessian but there are time in F class when the wind lays down and conditions are just right to shoot. I guarantee that I can shoot 9 rounds ( one in the barrel and the two pre-loaded mags quicker than you can load and five nine single feed round UNLESS you are shooting a custom rifle with a left port for loading and a right port for extraction. The magazine has very little to do with the mechanics of shooting. You know, breath control and breathing, relaxed and gentle trigger squeeze, with the scope properly and accurately sighted in and aligned with the target. The magazine has nothing to do with developing an accurate load such as weighting each load, making the flash holes uniforn, turning the cartridge cases, shooting a round robin ladder test for vertical dispersion, setting the neck tension, measuring bearing surfaces, weighting each bullet and each cartridge case. But you are right anyone can shoot----without a magazine----but can they hit the 10 ring or X ring at 600, 800, or 1,000 yards. Any reputable gunsmith or web site that fairly publishes data on a 6.5x284 will advise you that after 1,000 to 1,500 rounds, the groups will start to open up at longer distances. Anyone can still shoot 100 or 200 yards, with
a throat that has been burnt and a muzzle end of a barrel that has fish mouthed. They can even hit deer, moose, or elk sized targets----but they will not
shoot a clean match at 800/1,000 yards. If this was not true, why does every major competitor that shoots the 6.5x284, every gunsmith that honestly know
6.5x284 barrel life, and every published article on the 6.5x284 state that bthis caliber is a barrel burner and barrels need to be replaced when the groups at long range start to open up. that also does not have anything to do with a magazine. Now the overall cartridge length is determined by the magazine. Also
certain very low drag bullets and custom bullets are much longer than run of the mill out of the box bullets. So magazines can limit this-----but most
knowledgeable 6.5x284 shooters have their rifle build on a long action, and can use a longer magazine whick permits longer overall cartridge length and the longer custom bullets. Also since I drive a hybrid Durango, I don't burn clutches and my tires wear just fine. For your shooting I wish you good luck and great shooting. As for MY rifle---I will keep it in tip top shape and remain competitive, as long as, the Good Lord permits me to do so.

 

[6Dasher]

F-Class (at least under ICFRA as per F2.11) does not allow feeding rounds from a magazine. Don't know about your local rules though, maybe they allow it.

No use machine gunning as you have to wait for the target to pop up and down anyway, so plenty of time to load with even a single shot rifle.

Machisimo on who's "magazine" is longer or who can "shoot" the fastest are moot points. :-D


When the barrel will not shoot anymore, it's time to replace it, 50 rounds or 5000. My experience is that it will still shoot nice groups at short range, but they tend to open up on long range when the barrel goes out. And since F-Class is only long range, you will notice soon enough that a barrel is not up to the task anymore. Still good for 100-200y shooting though, just not for 800+ anymore.

The 6.5-284 is overbore and thus a barrel burner. No discussion on that point. It's just what your expectations are. If 2moa is OK, then it will definitely last longer than 2000 rounds. If you want 0.5moa at 1000, expect 1000-2000 depending on your method of shooting (string or pairs) and plain luck with the barrel.

 

[cecchino76]

Tag for reference

 

[Rust]

Been running a 6.5 X 284 for years. To me the only drawback is barrel life. I have two barrels chambered up at a time, when the first barrel goes and the second one gets mounted I order a couple more. The replacement barrels have all been accurate, but then I have my own custom reamer with a fair amount of freebore so the bullets can be seated long and are not in the engine room leaving room for a bit more powder if needed.

H4831 and RL-22 worked well, but H4350 gave single digit ES and SDs.

It's built on an old Nesika long action, 28" barrel and runs a 139 at 2945 with a surprisingly light charge. Accuracy is superb.

One thing I might mention is that I ordered a bunch of Lapua brass and had the reamer made to match for a no turn neck. As far as 6.5 X 284 brass goes, there is Lapua, period.