75 at 50 10/22 challenge….help me diagnose my groups!

[ker2222]

Decided to give the 10/22 an actual workout today. Fired 10 five round groups at 50 yards. Prone, bipod and rear triad wedge bag. wolf/sk standard ammo.

I am pretty happy. Been working on things on and off the this summer and I think this isn't too bad for a standard 10/22 action and old A&B barrel…Only real modification is a kidd trigger. Single stage, set at about 2.5 lbs. All groups are 5 rounds. First 5 were on the snipers hide group target and then the next ten were on a standard target I had laying around. Some of the groups would have been real impressive (at least to me) if I could discount a few "flyers"

What I learned:
Shooting consecutive groups is tough. It took me about 45 mins to do. It is amazing how much all of your bad habits show up as you get fatigued and how quickly you can get fatigued when you're trying to maintain one position. I know guys talk about "flyers", especially with rimfire. But, I am not good enough to notice. All of my shots went pretty much where I figured they would when I broke the shot.

Here's the pics. If anyone sees anything that might help me get better, I'd appreciate it…..

 

[jbell]

That's really not bad at all for a lightly modified 10/22! The only things I would try different if it were me is:
#1 - lower your position You are too high off the ground with the bipod and extra bags in the rear. This will do several things but a few are it will make you use more muscle to hold the position and less bone support. It will cause you to reach with your head and neck and also put your back in an unnatural position. Having your back arched a lot will make it harder to breath and make your breathing be more labored. All of these things will greatly increase the fatigue you are talking about both mental and physical. That high position is also less stable when you start stacking bags up, there is just more chance for one to rock a little or slip some.

#2 - (you may have already done this and just not mentioned it) I see you are shooting Wolf and that is good ammo, some guns love it. But try several different brands of ammo and different days. Keep the targets shot with them and label them, don't just remember the group sizes or an average. I find that looking at targets side by side is much easier to determine what ammo I need to shoot.

#3 - I see you have Leupold QRW rings on, just make sure they are tight. I have seen these get caught on a bag during transportation and slightly loosen.

#4 - I see your Harris has the notches (which I like) but it don't have the leg lock screws. So on a hard surface like you are shooting on it is hard to load the bipod because the feet roll. Get a heavy sand bag and put in front of the bipod or some leg lock screws like these: https://www.triadtactical.com/Phoenix-Tactical-Leg-Lock-Screws.html Then you can try loading the bipod and see if that helps calm the flyers down some.

#5 - If not already have your action bedded (or do it yourself) it is not too hard to do and can really help. Also make sure the barrel is floated, which I am sure it already is. For some good instruction on bedding and modifying the 10/22 look here: http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9


Like I said good shooting, its going to be hard to improve with a 10/22 and Wolf ammo. However if it were me I would check your position first thing and see if a lower one feels better...

 

[yoteman]

Mr. Bell has said it all
but i will add, we see wolf ammo, does indeed shoot good in a few rifle's
but even then it has flyer's;
try sifferent match ammo, if you would like to cut down flyers
but thats pretty damm good groups, for that rig,
dont know how much better, higher $ ammo will do

 

[justin amateur]

Get those rubber bipod feet off the deck.
I've found shooting with a folded towel under the bipod
eliminated recoil bounce and let it slide back instead.
No pre-loading the bipod needed, no forcing the grip.
Made a big difference for me.

 

[RicosRevenge]

I agree with almost everything jbell stated... except... ;-)

Many 10/22(s), especially v-block versions don't like to be free-floated. They like to have a pressure point somewhere near the end of the stock. This is why I ALWAYS steer people clear of the Hogue OM stocks because they flex. Sometimes bedding the action and the first couple inches of the barrel will eliminate that need... sometimes not. Try the pressure point first by placing a section of rubber band under the fore-end near the tip and play with the positioning a little bit.

When I shot groups with my 10/22 I actually found that after the initial shot, I would continue to stay in position and send the follow up shots fairly rapidly.

You're groups are definitely not bad and it doesn't look like you are "chasing the bull" based on the consistent POI. Try some different ammo just for the heck of it. One thing that helped me immensely with the 10/22 was a rim thickness gauge. More than any other type of sorting; the rim-thickness really helped with "fliers."

Oh, and the towel will work or you can slide the feet of the bipod back onto the shooting mat.

 

[ker2222]

thanks for all the awesome advice! I really appreciate it!

I am going to work on the positioning stuff that Jbell mentioned. I could tell as the shooting wore on that my position wasn't as stable as it should be and especially as I got tired. Its not even that the muscles themselves fatigue its that my mental discipline sort of tired and I would catch myself AFTER i broke a shot with something not right.

I am pretty committed to the wolf ammo….lol. It shoots decent in all of my rim fires and I have many, many bricks of it socked away. I think I'd have to punch myself in the nuts if I bought different rimfire ammo. At least until I get the positioning stuff worked on more.

And, as to free floated, ricosrevenge and I share similar rifles. Mine is not only not free floated it is torqued into the stock with about as much pressure as possible. I tried multiple stocks and multiple times to float all or some of the barrel. It just won't shoot that way. Someday I'd like to get one of the kidd actions with the screw in barrel and two action screws….but again, none of that will matter until I get the positioning right.

Thanks again guys!!!! I do appreciate the feedback

 

[Kiba]

Mr. Bell has said it all
but i will add, we see wolf ammo, does indeed shoot good in a few rifle's
but even then it has flyer's;

100% agreed.

Over the years I've found that while Wolf Match Target shoots pretty damn good for the price you can expect about 2-5 fliers out of every box of 50. I initially suspected it was my technique or the rifle causing the fliers until I shot several hundred rounds of Wolf MT over a chronograph one day and found that every time I saw a flier on target that particular round was about 25fps high or low.

So don't beat yourself up if a few shots out of every box of Wolf MT are high are low... there's a very good chance it isn't your rifle or your technique. Only way to minimize or eliminate the fliers is to buy the really high dollar ammo.

For a nearly stock 10/22 your targets look quite good!