Gunsmithing 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

[jetmd]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Chad, first let me say I really enjoy your threads and the text and photo's contained in them.

But my question is: would it have been more cost effective to dismiss the old stock and start with a new piece?

I know new stocks also require proper attention, but could/would this have been an option?

Respectfully,

Chet

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is likely that the spots around the weld are hardened rather than annealed. I doubt it will do any harm since there is no stress in that spot.</div></div>

This analysis would seem to support your conclusion:

http://www.varmintal.com/abat85.htm

As Chad said, people weld on a lot of things. I wouldn't use that as a reason to take a lackadaisical attitude about highly-stressed mission-critical parts, but panic isn't appropriate, either.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHOLLY $%^& wait till you guys see the other side!</div></div>

If you ever happen to mention the vendor you use for epoxy, I'm buying stock in that company. I thought I was pretty bad-ass for having a 25lb bucket of Devcon putty in the barn, but heck - it looks like you'd blow through that before the day's first coffee break.

Damn cool work here. It'd be real easy to throw all this stuff away and start anew, but that wouldn't be nearly as entertaining for the rest of us

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jetmd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad, first let me say I really enjoy your threads and the text and photo's contained in them.

But my question is: would it have been more cost effective to dismiss the old stock and start with a new piece?

I know new stocks also require proper attention, but could/would this have been an option?

Respectfully,

Chet </div></div>



Chet,

McMillan's lead time these days is easily 12+ weeks. At most I used about $40.00 worth of material. Bear in mind its not solid resin as that would essentially be like rock candy. Hard with no structure. This is a blend of stuff to keep the strength.

I've filled/rebuilt so many stocks over the years it's a no brainer/std practice for us now. Just a little machine work and some "cookin".

In a perfect world its always better to have virgin components, but with the resources we have here it's not always a necessity. Pays to have good tools and skilled hands.

In this case this gun is over 20 years old. I was corrected today by the owner. That being said I think he got his $ worth out of it. Spending a little at this point isn't nearly so tough compared to just having a gun built and having to tear through it six months later.

Consider this just a facelift/tummy tuck. If we get it right it may even qualify as a boob job...

We'll blast through this bugger in the AM.

C.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is likely that the spots around the weld are hardened rather than annealed. I doubt it will do any harm since there is no stress in that spot.</div></div>

This analysis would seem to support your conclusion:

http://www.varmintal.com/abat85.htm

</div></div>

I'm not surprised.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Stock's been inletted and were prepping for bedding. Since we had to do so much work to the action it only made sense to just give the whole thing a once over with the "snappy shine" to get the nicks/dings out of it from 20 years of service. (I've been mistakenly stating this gun is 10 years old. The owner corrected me last week, its over 20 years old!)

We took some video of the stock inletting process. Soon as I get a free moment I'll edit it and post it up too.

Going well!

Last, I opened the tang screw hole up to 1/4-28. The little hole is a bit goofy me thinks.

 

[Bernarde]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Chad, with each one of your threads I am all the more impressed with your attention to detail! Keep up the good work, It looks like Garret will be a very big asset to Long Rifles.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Oky doke, back onto this bugger.

Here's the stock after pulling the action. So far the only thing I've done thus far is spotting the pillar bores and finish reaming the holes. Now it's onto cleaning her up a bit.

We'll start with the trigger well. Back to the mill and getting setup. Had a irritating hole in the bedding, but luckily it was in the mag well so we'll be chewing all that out here shortly.

Making progress.

 

[DMann]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Thank God this is back up. Waiting for the next installment is like watching "24" - the week just seems longer.

We appreciate the graduate level education you are providing.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

1st op:

Trigger pin clearance, safety lever inlet, and a cleanup of the finish profile on top.

2nd op:

2nd tool comes in and starts hogging out the well. I use a different style cutter for 1st op as it'll ensure there's no chipping/splitting of the bedding at the edges. Everything stays nice and clean/sharp.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank God this is back up. Waiting for the next installment is like watching "24" - the week just seems longer.

We appreciate the graduate level education you are providing. </div></div>


Thanks! Yesterday we planned on getting to this but got sidetracked a bit. Lots of walk in traffic yesterday and Garrett and I worked like the devil to get our Ceracoating oven up and running. We were pretty pleased on how it came out.

This means were going to be doing it in house from now on. The materials should be here either today or tomorrow. WOO HOO no more shipping stuff all over!

More to come.

C.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Here's the "finished" trigger well.

Normally the clearance for the bolt stop is done here too. Being this is a M7 and I've not done one before I'm holding off just to ensure things are the same. We'll be writing this code and adding it to the existing program just to ensure things come out the way we like it.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

I can't wait to see the final product. This is like watching 24.

 

[m1k3]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Chad, I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind.

I've been using a dremel and too many hours doing the clean up by hand and now that I've nearly completed my mill-to-cnc conversion, I'm looking for some guidance on the stock setup.

What's the purpose of the different colored epoxy? Is a density thing? Or a bond issue with the original stock material?

How do you index the stock in the CNC? It looks like from the pic a few posts back that you have a barreled action template. Do you use that as your level and centering index?

Once you have the stock in the CNC machine, how do you square it up? I've setup a digital probe that can get down too .001" resolution and figured that would be plenty for just cleaning up the excess epoxy in the stock. Should be good enough for barrel clearancing too. What are your acceptable margins for stock clean up and shaping?

A few stocks that I have testing on I use the original action holes to index from. But that's only assuming they are correct. I've already seen one that was clearly not centered which is making me rethink how I center the stock in the machine.



Thank you sir.

Mike

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Mike,

While I do encourage anyone/everyone to explore the power CNC manufacturing can bring to custom gunmaking, my build threads have a customer service/force multiplyer/advertising motive behind them. I own a business with the intention of making a product that satisfies our client's desires on all points while also being profitable.

That being said I'm going to respectfully/politely decline to answer your question. I operate a business. It's not a school.

The processes here are the result of 10+ years of effort, tears, sweat, etc.

Thanks for understanding.

What I will share with you is that just as with any other setup the work piece needs to be rigid and qualified in all three axis's. Probes are great, but for this I've not seen where they are beneficial to the cause.

As for the different color resins. The brand I use to fill up a stock is just different from what the stock manufacturer uses. They all get painted externally/internally when finished so its of little consequence. 90% of the fill comes back out so there's so little left that issues like strength aren't really too big a deal either.



C.

 

[m1k3]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Interesting.

I understand and respect your decision. Needless to say I admire your work and just wanted to learn a little more.

Thanks for keeping us posted on your builds.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Appreciate the kind words.

Hope I didn't sound like a dick.

C.

 

[m1k3]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Not too much but I work at an technically advanced hospital as the IT guy so by the end of the day, everyone kinda sounds the same.

No sir, I understand and you didn't come off as a dick. Everyone has to learn and I'm not one to shy away from asking questions. If I lived closer to you I'd pay to sit in the corner and watch. I appreciate the builds posted on here from you, Roscoe, 300sniper, and others and look forward to learning more. Thanks again and sorry for derailing the thread a little.

Mike

 

[RFutch]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

I might not know what I'm talking about here but I have a question. Why would the customer want you to go through so much rebuilding of that stock when they are so easy to replace? Seems like a lot of labor to me. Just curious...

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

We start all of our builds on stocks with no inletting. In order to deliver the finished look were after it has to happen that way.

Buying a new stock really wouldn't of saved us much as id of still needed to do the same kind of work to get it right.

In this particular case the owner has had this rifle over 20 years. I imagine its probably much like a favorite old coffee cup or pair of shoes. I like to think the sentimental value probably runs pretty deep.

We identify with that.

C.

 

[RFutch]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Ah sentimental value, I hadn't thought of that.

I'm really enjoying this thread. I love getting a glimpse of all the hard work you guys put in behind the scenes.

Thanks.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Standby for video as soon as it gets loaded. 128mb file so its taking a bit.

I need to talk to my ISP about my bandwidth!

C.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

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[krisp]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Thats awesome, cool video.

Kris

 

[Nocalphoenix]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Chad what bottom metal are you going to run? I have a M7 and have looked at opening the rear screw up many times but it looks like if it is opened to 1/4 there would not be enough metal left on the sides of the screw holes.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

We used a bar stock machined version from PTG.

Screw hole punched to .265" w/no problem. Worked great! Had to modify it slightly for the box as the corners were fighting each other a bit. Other than that its a no brainer upgrade.

 

[nzgrip]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

love ya work

 

[nashlaw]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Too sweet!

No sandpaper and wooden dowels for Mr. Dixon. I feel primitive.

That is very nice, Chad. I appreciate the time you take for these videos and posts.

david

 

[Thud]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Back to the welded recoil lug. Its a practice of Kenny Jarret of Jarrett rifles he has done that in a lot of his first rifles.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

We know nothing. . .

 

[Hoser]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7zltmmhCyU </div></div>

Cool video.

Is the song in the background APC Passive or some other Maynard tune?

 

[6.81star]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

When you start the inletting process how do you know where to cut the 1st hole for the action screw?

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

The way you start this is by determining trigger location. Once you know that sorting out the rest is pretty simple. Its just numbers from then on.

In some of the gunsmithing schools I'm told trigger placement is based on LOP. This works but it can bite you too. Trigger placement is properly determined by the relationship of hand and grip. Not the length of pull. You set it first, then figure out where the recoil pad should end up.

With actions that use a remington style triggerl the shoe is almost directly in line with the rear trigger pin hole. Its a conveinient way to line up the receiver.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

We've assembled it and stuck a pad on the back end. It's not the right pad (just dabbed it with CA to hold it enough for shooting)

Soon as the Brownells order comes in we'll stick the right one on it and get it fitted/prepped for paint/coating.

I like testing before hand so that if there's any issues it'll be easier to fix.

This one will get broke in/shot today as well. (Verminator 338 Edge is the other)

Normally I test everything with my NF "shot beater" that's tried and true. I "aquired" one of my bro's Leupolds for this one.

Good way to start the day!

C.

 

[Skyking]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Chad love the builds. I have yet to see how any other these shot. Would love to see how some of your guns shoot. Keep us posted.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

I'm not sure those rings are tall enough.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad love the builds. I have yet to see how any other these shot. Would love to see how some of your guns shoot. Keep us posted. </div></div>

The 7mm-08 is a chooter. We were pressed for time this afternoon as I thought I had Dad duty with picking up the girly from school. I didn't grab the target.

The first 5 were shoot/clean shots. Each cold bore/clean bore shot produced a five shot group that we guessed at around .6" at 100 yards.

Nothing earth shattering but definitely encouraging.

Follow up groups were ok. Around 1/2" inch. For the record I completely suck Suck SUck SUCk SUCK at bench shooting.

I'm betting with the right optics and someone more qualified it'll be a tagger.

Here's a few: (of course no one posts the bad responses. . .

)


Right after moving into the new shop:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...368#Post2539368


One customer who's very, very satisfied. . .

(hysterical IMHO)

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From this build. . .: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2287936&#Post2287936

<span style="font-weight: bold">Sent today:</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">Chief,

Hope all is well...

Been whittling down a few different loads and have finally shot a damn good group for me. You're wise beyond your years, my friend. 168 VLD's. .750 at the outside of a 5 shot string. Reloader 22 at 77.5 grains. COAL is 3.39. Berger says they'd like to see 1800 fps to whack a critter which ends this load at 910 yards by my calc at the conditions I shot this tonight. These were shot out the barrel at about round count 40 or so since last cleaning. No pressure concerns on the cases or primer and the avg. vel. was 3357 fps. Berger says the MAX is 77.6 gr. with their 168's.

I jumped up from 76 grains to 77.5 and didn't shoot a 76.5 or a 77.... I know, Boss, .5 grain increment, but I'm inside of 40 days before an Oryx goes down in NM... The 76 grains at the same COAL shot 3229 avg. and wasn't a terrible group, counting the flyer was right at an inch to inch 1/4.

Safe to assume I'll try 78 and see if the group spreads and I'll check the velocity's and the look for pressure problems.

Love this thing... You've hooked me.

My wife hates my new "hobby"... I may miss her... someday...

Jensen</span>

From Email sent 7.21.11:

. . . I warmed the barrel up and fouled the bore a little with two 190 SMK's at a rock the size of a car hood at 1034 yards before I shot this group. PDA said 24.75 MOA. First warmup hit right below the rock because I only put in 24.25... Gave it three more clicks up to 25.0 and smoked it right in the middle where I held the crosshairs. I waited about 20 minutes, got set up at 100 yards and shot these five with about 5 minutes between shots.

I've got 77 gr. of RE-22 to try next with the 168's. Still below recommended Max Load by Berger. Absolutely no concerns with the gun, scope, etc.

Lovin' this thing...

Thanks, MAN!

GJ

From This thread:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/11/pride-joy-palma-rifle-in-turkish-walnut/

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2287936&#Post2287936

<span style="font-style: italic">Not much wind. Temps. about 75 in the morning 82 by afternoon. Rain storm blew in and out quick during the last string.

1st. string: 198-14 Fireform loads Berger 105 VLD

2nd. string 198-10 Fireform loads Berger 105 non VLD. Never had much luck with this bullet but had 25 of them laying around so I used them up.

3rd. string 198-10 Match loads Berger 115 VLD. Wind had come up and the light was very bad .

I took 2nd. place overall. Nice to see 2 guy shooting sling and irons in all 3 matches take first and second. Glass in allowed in two of the three matches at this club. I am going to explore the Berger 105 VLD's a bit more. All in all I am very happy with how the gun shot, all 9's were my fault.

John</span>

From Jay C. here on the Hide:
<span style="font-style: italic">
Hi Chad-

Thought you might like to see your chambering job in action as I finally remembered to take a photo to show you. This was a 10-shot string @ 600 yards this morning. I broke one bad shot (a '10' @ 11 o'clock). This is a 600 yard F-Class target (3" X-ring), turned around for visibility with a 3" target dot over the X-ring. You can see the 10 and 9 rings showing through the backside. In scoring parlance, you could call it a 100-8X I guess... This particular load is holding up very well so far. It's been somewhat difficult zero'ing in on the right load since a 8.5 twist is a bit slow for the 140 Berger VLD and if the velocity drops, it gets pretty wild, but obviously, it still shoots pretty well when your loading practice is sound.

Regards-
Jay Christopherson</span>


Trevor A. Here on the Hide:

Hey Chad, finally got a break in the weather the other day and got out to shoot the .22-250. Seems to shoot everything that I fed it pretty good but settled on a load that grouped fairly small. I included some pics of the 10 shot group at 100 yds that I shot with my final go to load. Thanks again man.

Also I started a thread on SH about the build and the results along with some kind words in regard to you and LRI.

http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2590752#Post2590752

Nevermind the hyperventilating phone call from a guy down in LA that Kalli answered. .916" 5 shot center/center spread at 1k yards.

Honest injun!

Nice to have a good day now and again.

Hope this answers your question.

Have a great night.

C.

 

[mcfred]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Thanks for posting all these neat pictures and build details! What is the rail you're using:?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Its a Murphy precision that I chewed on a bit.

Nice piece. They do good work

 

[jbell]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Chad,

The pic of the crown is just fing beautiful! It just made my wall paper.

 

[2156SMK]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The way you start this is by determining trigger location. Once you know that sorting out the rest is pretty simple. Its just numbers from then on.

In some of the gunsmithing schools I'm told trigger placement is based on LOP. This works but it can bite you too. Trigger placement is properly determined by the relationship of hand and grip. Not the length of pull. You set it first, then figure out where the recoil pad should end up.</div></div>

Ok, here's something that's always made me wonder...
I'm a big/tall guy and I got big hands.
Any factory rifle I pick up and get a good 90 degree finger position on the trigger, I always seem to be floating about 1/4" forward of the natural pistol grip in the stock (McM A5, Manners T4, HS etc...)
If I were to hold the stock most naturally, I would have to move the inlet back about 1/4" in every factory inletted stock I own to move the trigger where it should be for me.

Do you determine proper trigger position with a more proper finger grasp on the pistol grip?
If so, how do you know what's right for the shooter if he's not there to show you where HIS finger ends up with a proper pistol grip grasp?

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Honestly I average it out and over the years I've just sorta found a spot that seems to work for most.

The pad of the finger should contact. Nothing else. It should be at a 90* angle as this isolates the muscle group better. Tough to do sometimes on a sporter stock (why vert grips are so popular these days, it helps isolate the trigger finger muscle group)

The worst is an AR trigger. Way too far back and it encourages a guy to wrap his finger into it.

Hope this helped.

C.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Just finished the final assy.

7.5lbs as it sits. Trying hard to fight the urge to go shoot the snot out of it.

Onto the business end of things:

 

[RFutch]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Looks awesome!

 

[blackblue]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Very nice, what rail is that?

 

[665.0coupe]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blackblue</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice, what rail is that? </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its a Murphy precision that I chewed on a bit.

Nice piece. They do good work </div></div>

From page two.

 

[mdesign]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Very nice work!

After all the chatter about welding at the beginning of this thread didn't think it was salvageable...laffin.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

bump

Sorry, don't normally do this. A cst called asking about this thread so this was the easiest way to get it to where he could see it.

C.

 

[DMann]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Tease.