7mm Rem Mag Precision Build

[jlfar0311]

Alright, I've acquired a new Winchester Model 70, 7mm Rem Mag. It came stock. My objective is to slowly convert it over to a precision rifle to be able to shoot at a grand and a little over. I've been scouring the interweb trying to find options and answers and I've come up with some questions for all of you guru's out there. Let's break this down into sections.

Optic - I'm looking at going with a SWFA SS fixed 10x Mil Dot (a 16x is still on the table though)

Stock - This is where I'm having the most trouble. I could go with a McMillian A-series but I'll need to save a ton of money to do that. I've looked at some Choate Ultimate Sniper's and have seen some promising stuff. I've also looked at some Hogues which are along the same price. Here's where my questions are driving me crazy. Both the McMillian and Choate's do not have a floor plate for possibly installing a detachable magazine, and with only a 3+1 capacity, I would definitely like to pursue that option. Some of the Hogue's come with the floor plate, but do I have to buy a separate magazine well/trigger guard to accomodate the acceptance of magazines? If so, what brand do I need to look at? Also, do I need to get a stock with a "full bed block" for increased accuracy? And will getting a stock with a larger barrel channel be ok in case I want to add a thicker barrel in the future?

Barrel - comes with a 26" sporter barrel. I need to shoot a good bit to break it in, and will keep the current barrel if it performs well. If not, or when it wears out, I plan on installing a thicker Broughton.

Trigger - Trigger is easily adjustable and is pretty damn nice already.

Bipod - I'm a Harris guy so that's probably what will be going on.

Thanks for any and all help.

 

[Sonic Crack]

Save your pennies for a McM, Manners or a chassis. If you wana throw money away on a choke (Choate) or B&C or the likes then just send that money to me and Ill spend it for you

 

[mwroseberry]

I run a 7mm rem mag myself. Look at my older posts for my setup. What is the barrel twist on your stock barrel. One thing on a noodle your first two shots will be fine if you shoot fast but your third will be all over the place. Highly suggest a bull barrel for matches. Also I would go with the 12x SS nice compromise between the 10x and 16x.

Jmo

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[Longshot38]

I ran a Winchester 70 in 7mm Rem Mag for years. It was a good rifle, but it now sits in my shop collecting dust. Anyway about your question:

Optics:
What is your budget? Are you going to be using this rifle strictly of punching paper and steel or are you looking for a dual purpose rifle?

Stock:
My rifle sat in a Choate USS stock. It is an OK system but certainly not to the standard of my Manners. Those stocks are designed to be run with no floor plate at all. However they can be modified to utilize DBM or floorplate. But if that is a goal then you are better off getting a better stock from the get go. The bedding block design works but any smith who knows his way around a rifle will tell you that while Almunim bedding blocks are good a bedding job is better. With all that said just spend the money and get a McMillian or Manners stock from the start it will save you money in the long run.

Barrel:
What twist is on your current barrel? Mine shot well right out of the box but a good custom barrel is always better. As for break-in, don't waste your time. Take it out shoot it, come home and give it a good cleaning, and your done. There is no reason to use a lengthy, time consuming, and ammunition consuming break-in process.

Trigger:
Keep that Winchester trigger. Winchester have some the best factory trigger around. They are simple and easy to tune.

Bipod:
Harris is good. An Atlas is best. And there are other good ones out there. I'm a versa pod guy myself.

 

[jlfar0311]

I run a 7mm rem mag myself. Look at my older posts for my setup. What is the barrel twist on your stock barrel. One thing on a noodle your first two shots will be fine if you shoot fast but your third will be all over the place. Highly suggest a bull barrel for matches. Also I would go with the 12x SS nice compromise between the 10x and 16x.

Jmo

Good luck,
Merritt

Pretty sure the twist rate is 1:9.5, and yeah I was worried about the expansion rate on a thin barrel. As far as the 12x, it seems they only offer it in mil only, and at this point I'm a lot more comfortable with measurements in minutes. Maybe I should drop back and try the mil system, I've had a lot of people try to convince me of that.

 

[jlfar0311]

I ran a Winchester 70 in 7mm Rem Mag for years. It was a good rifle, but it now sits in my shop collecting dust. Anyway about your question

Optics:
What is your budget? Are you going to be using this rifle strictly of punching paper and steel or are you looking for a dual purpose rifle?

I don't have a budget, per se. Just the normal working man's allotment to sit aside a chunk at a time and buy quality items as I can afford to do so.

 

[jtrax]

It is not hard to learn Mil. Much easier than MOA. Once your brain gets used to it, you never have to think inches again. I was MOA only for years and since I switched I have never looked back.

Spend the money and buy yourself a heavier contour quality barrel from any of the aftermarket barrel makers. I would suggest to you to call Greg @ bugholes and order at least a Med Palma or one of the Varmint contours. Like the post above says, two shots and the skinny barrel will begin shooting inconsistent. Also, consider getting a McMillan and having a good gunsmith bed it as well as chamber your new heavier contour match grade barrel.

 

[jlfar0311]

It is not hard to learn Mil. Much easier than MOA. Once your brain gets used to it, you never have to think inches again. I was MOA only for years and since I switched I have never looked back.

Spend the money and buy yourself a heavier contour quality barrel from any of the aftermarket barrel makers. I would suggest to you to call Greg @ bugholes and order at least a Med Palma or one of the Varmint contours. Like the post above says, two shots and the skinny barrel will begin shooting inconsistent. Also, consider getting a McMillan and having a good gunsmith bed it as well as chamber your new heavier contour match grade barrel.

Good to go, thank you for the information

 

[Longshot38]

I don't have a budget, per se. Just the normal working man's allotment to sit aside a chunk at a time and buy quality items as I can afford to do so.

Alright given that I can only assume that your working "working man's allotment" is about the same as mine. As such I will assume money really is not much of an issue. With that being said what is you purpose for the rifle? Is it going to be a range rifle, a hunting rifle, a dual purpose rifle, or something else? Your intended purpose has a lot to do with selection. For a hunting rifle weight can be a major consideration but for a range rifle it really isn't much of one. Also reticle selection is a very personal thing. Everybody has their own perferences. I like the Gen II XR design, others like the Horus designs, while others prefer a more traditional configuration. So that is something everyone has to decide for themselves. And it is something that really drives scope selection when speaking of high end optics.

 

[Graham]

7mm Rem Mag Precision Build

If you want an accurate belted magnum rifle, do first things first: Get it headspaced at the shoulder.

 

[Longshot38]

If you want an accurate belted magnum rifle, do first things first: Get it headspaced at the shoulder.

Could be helpful, but I never did with any of mine and they all shot fine. However if the OP is having a new barrel installed then why not.

 

[jlfar0311]

Longshot38, trying to use the quote option but something seems to be wrong with it at the moment. Anyway, I'm going to use the rifle to hone my skills at long range, maybe shoot at some local matches, and basically just continue to be a rifleman. As far as glass; I'm really liking the reviews and feedback I'm getting about SWFA SS items. If I go with MOA it'll be Mil Dot and if I go with the 12x it'll be Mil-Mil. Those are really the only two measurements and reticles that I would like to use. Thank you for your input.

As far as shoulder headspacing, I plan on replacing the barrel and probably won't do that until that time. Thanks guys.

 

[Longshot38]

The SS line of optics is good stuff, espeically for the money. But why the fixed power stuff? There is nothing wrong with it and it works. But the 3-15 and 5-20 models are out now and by all accounts are pretty good stuff. I know I like my 5-20. Also whatever route you take, do not mix your units of measure. If your scope has a mil based reticle make sure the turrets match. And the same goes for MOA based stuff. At this point in the ball game there really is no reason one should have mismatched reticles and turrets.

Now for my suggestions on optics. If money isn't a concern there is always Hensoldt, Premier, and Schmidt&Bender. For the more budget minded buyer things like a Nightforce F1, Vortex Razor 5-20, and Leupold Mk6 exist. And if one wants to keep thing under the $1500 mark then the SWFA SS, Vortex Viper PST, and Bushnell Elites are good options.

 

[jlfar0311]

The SS line of optics is good stuff, espeically for the money. But why the fixed power stuff? There is nothing wrong with it and it works. But the 3-15 and 5-20 models are out now and by all accounts are pretty good stuff. I know I like my 5-20. Also whatever route you take, do not mix your units of measure. If your scope has a mil based reticle make sure the turrets match. And the same goes for MOA based stuff. At this point in the ball game there really is no reason one should have mismatched reticles and turrets.

Now for my suggestions on optics. If money isn't a concern there is always Hensoldt, Premier, and Schmidt&Bender. For the more budget minded buyer things like a Nightforce F1, Vortex Razor 5-20, and Leupold Mk6 exist. And if one wants to keep thing under the $1500 mark then the SWFA SS, Vortex Viper PST, and Bushnell Elites are good options.

Honestly I like a fixed magnification because I like a FFP and if in use in rougher enviroments, there's more that can go wrong with an adjustable magnification. This isn't just a bench project for me. I'm former military, and like most of us, I always think about using my weapon as a tool, no matter what scenario or conditions. I can assure you that I won't be able to drop $1500 and up on optics. Not in my budget, especially when SS's are getting the reviews and field test results that they are. Honestly my biggest concern is finding a good stock, adaptable for bottom metal, and a good barrel. Any ideas?

 

[Longshot38]

Honestly I like a fixed magnification because I like a FFP and if in use in rougher enviroments, there's more that can go wrong with an adjustable magnification. This isn't just a bench project for me. I'm former military, and like most of us, I always think about using my weapon as a tool, no matter what scenario or conditions. I can assure you that I won't be able to drop $1500 and up on optics. Not in my budget, especially when SS's are getting the reviews and field test results that they are. Honestly my biggest concern is finding a good stock, adaptable for bottom metal, and a good barrel. Any ideas?

One last paragraph on optic and then it is all about you. Durablity in variable power optics now is not an issue. Your comment lost relivancy in the early 90s. And fixed power optics do work but they are more of a henderance then a help these days. You can get a durable FFP variable power optic with good glass these days for not to much money. Why do you thing the military optic contracts have been for variable power optics for over a decade now? And finally we are back to the budget question. This is why I asked you about it earlier. To give you a good answer we need to know a budget. Otherwise we will be making one up for you and it will most likely be based upon our budgets. So what is your budget?

Now the rest of it. Manners makes a great stock and it is where I go for stocks these days. DBM is a different issue. Winchester actions don't aftermarket support here. Thus my suggestion is to just run the rifle with a box magazine. However if DBM is a must I think CDI makes a unit for it but you will have to get the stock inleted for this as well have a little machining done to the reciever. As for barrels there are lots of good manufacterers out there. The biggest question is what bullet are you wanting to run. Long range rifles tend to be setup around speicific bullets or classes of bullets. As such the barrels they wear tend to be set up with specific chambers and twist rates. When speaking of barrel contour that really is up to you but I have found the something profiled similar to a varmint contour is a good compromise. And for belted magnums I like to keep the barrels long just so I can take full advantage of the rounds but that is a personal thing as well. I know of some short barreled belted magnums that are real shooters.

 

[jlfar0311]

One last paragraph on optic and then it is all about you. Durablity in variable power optics now is not an issue. Your comment lost relivancy in the early 90s. And fixed power optics do work but they are more of a henderance then a help these days. You can get a durable FFP variable power optic with good glass these days for not to much money. Why do you thing the military optic contracts have been for variable power optics for over a decade now? And finally we are back to the budget question. This is why I asked you about it earlier. To give you a good answer we need to know a budget. Otherwise we will be making one up for you and it will most likely be based upon our budgets. So what is your budget?

Now the rest of it. Manners makes a great stock and it is where I go for stocks these days. DBM is a different issue. Winchester actions don't aftermarket support here. Thus my suggestion is to just run the rifle with a box magazine. However if DBM is a must I think CDI makes a unit for it but you will have to get the stock inleted for this as well have a little machining done to the reciever. As for barrels there are lots of good manufacterers out there. The biggest question is what bullet are you wanting to run. Long range rifles tend to be setup around speicific bullets or classes of bullets. As such the barrels they wear tend to be set up with specific chambers and twist rates. When speaking of barrel contour that really is up to you but I have found the something profiled similar to a varmint contour is a good compromise. And for belted magnums I like to keep the barrels long just so I can take full advantage of the rounds but that is a personal thing as well. I know of some short barreled belted magnums that are real shooters.

I'm gonna skip the optics comments due to opinion versus fact. As far as budget, lets say $3000. What does "Winchester actions don't aftermarket support here" mean? And why would I have to get the stock "inleted" when some stocks come compatible to Wyatt, Badger Ordinance, AI DBM's? As far as "bullets" that I wanna run, that factor can't be ascertained until I run loads and find out what works best in this finished rifle. I appreciate your advice on this matter but I don't think you follow what I'm looking for. I would like to know if there are shooters out there who have built similar projects and what they have used to complete them, not "I think, therefore it must be" scenarios. Thank you for your time though friend.

 

[Longshot38]

I'm gonna skip the optics comments due to opinion versus fact. As far as budget, lets say $3000. What does "Winchester actions don't aftermarket support here" mean? And why would I have to get the stock "inleted" when some stocks come compatible to Wyatt, Badger Ordinance, AI DBM's? As far as "bullets" that I wanna run, that factor can't be ascertained until I run loads and find out what works best in this finished rifle. I appreciate your advice on this matter but I don't think you follow what I'm looking for. I would like to know if there are shooters out there who have built similar projects and what they have used to complete them, not "I think, therefore it must be" scenarios. Thank you for your time though friend.

OK one by one here:

1) Optics
There is a HUGE fuctions difference between say my Premier 5-25x56 and my Vortex Viper 1-4x24. Both serve very different roles and do very different things. One is a $3000 optic that was designed for engaging in long range engagment while the other is $500 optic that works well for it's purpose sitting a top my AR15. But if I swapped the optics around they both become more useful as paper weights.

2) DBM
Most DBM systems that are available today are designed for the Remington 700 actions. Some people have developed DBM systems that work with Winchesters but they are not anywhere near as plentiful. As such you really are stuck with a much small pool or products to choose from. As I previously stated CDI is the only manufacterer I know of that has a DBM system that will accomidate a Winchester action. Hints my suggestion to simply stick with a box magazine.

3) Inletting
Some stocks do come with bottom metal included and these stocks will already be inletted for your bottom metal. But CDI doesn't manufacterer stocks as such when you get a stock it will either have to inletted whatever bottom metal you run or CDI will have to do some inlettting a machine work to your stock and action in order to get their product to fit correctly.

4) Bullet selection
When we build long range rifles we typically pick out a bullet that has the right characteristics for what we want to accomplish first and then design our barrels and chambers around that bullet or class of bullet. For example when I had my 338 built I told the smith what bullet I was going to run before he ever made the first cut on the rifle. As such the barrel was rifled with a twist rate appropriate for the bullet I wanted to run and the chamber was cut to the right diminsions for the ammunition as I loaded it. The point is that when getting a custom tube put on a rifle you want to get barrel/chamber setup right from the start so you can run the bullet(s) you want, not the other way around.

Anyway I have told you want I learned from experience with a rifle just like yours. If you don't want to use my advise that is fine. But I given you solid and factual information, take it or leave it.

 

[jlfar0311]

OK one by one here:

1) Optics
There is a HUGE fuctions difference between say my Premier 5-25x56 and my Vortex Viper 1-4x24. Both serve very different roles and do very different things. One is a $3000 optic that was designed for engaging in long range engagment while the other is $500 optic that works well for it's purpose sitting a top my AR15. But if I swapped the optics around they both become more useful as paper weights.

2) DBM
Most DBM systems that are available today are designed for the Remington 700 actions. Some people have developed DBM systems that work with Winchesters but they are not anywhere near as plentiful. As such you really are stuck with a much small pool or products to choose from. As I previously stated CDI is the only manufacterer I know of that has a DBM system that will accomidate a Winchester action. Hints my suggestion to simply stick with a box magazine.

3) Inletting
Some stocks do come with bottom metal included and these stocks will already be inletted for your bottom metal. But CDI doesn't manufacterer stocks as such when you get a stock it will either have to inletted whatever bottom metal you run or CDI will have to do some inlettting a machine work to your stock and action in order to get their product to fit correctly.

4) Bullet selection
When we build long range rifles we typically pick out a bullet that has the right characteristics for what we want to accomplish first and then design our barrels and chambers around that bullet or class of bullet. For example when I had my 338 built I told the smith what bullet I was going to run before he ever made the first cut on the rifle. As such the barrel was rifled with a twist rate appropriate for the bullet I wanted to run and the chamber was cut to the right diminsions for the ammunition as I loaded it. The point is that when getting a custom tube put on a rifle you want to get barrel/chamber setup right from the start so you can run the bullet(s) you want, not the other way around.

Anyway I have told you want I learned from experience with a rifle just like yours. If you don't want to use my advise that is fine. But I given you solid and factual information, take it or leave it.

As my OP states, I'm good on the optics.

As far as magazines; I honestly don't know what use a magazine versus a detachable box magazine means. In my mind, that is the same thing.

So if I go with CDI, I will have to send my stock and receiver to them to make it work?

As far as bullet selection; I'm shooting for approximately an 180 grain for higher BC's. as far as knowing what bullet, what design, or what powder grain, I believe that you are overestimating me. I honestly don't know what load will be perfect for a supposed barrel that will be made in the future. If there is a formula to discern this information, I am more than ready to know it. As far as what I know now, a 26"-28" barrel with a 1:8-1:9.5 are the only selections that I know that will work with this caliber and the size that I am potentially looking to use. Please enlighten me, that's the reason that I came here.

 

[mallrat]

Addressing the magazine issue, going with a detectable box magazine allows you to have extra magazines preloaded to help keep your rate of fire up beyond the first magazine, unlike a fixed box magazine. Higher-than-stock capacities may be available with some systems, check functional reliability before betting your life on it. Depending on where you are located, political issues may figure into the decision as well.

 

[jlfar0311]

Addressing the magazine issue, going with a detectable box magazine allows you to have extra magazines preloaded to help keep your rate of fire up beyond the first magazine, unlike a fixed box magazine. Higher-than-stock capacities may be available with some systems, check functional reliability before betting your life on it. Depending on where you are located, political issues may figure into the decision as well.

By fixed box magazine, do you mean internal magazine with no floor plate? Let me add to that as well. I would like to have a stock that will accept a DBM system. I don't even know if its possible. There are not a lot of options, as well as open information, about doing this with a Model 70. I would definitely like to get that answered so I can at least narrow down my options and move forward. Thank you for post

 

[mallrat]

By fixed box magazine, do you mean internal magazine with no floor plate? Let me add to that as well. I would like to have a stock that will accept a DBM system. I don't even know if its possible. There are not a lot of options, as well as open information, about doing this with a Model 70. I would definitely like to get that answered so I can at least narrow down my options and move forward. Thank you for post

My terminology may be incorrect in some cases, so bear with me Some fixed magazines will have a "hatch" on the bottom to unload the rifle without cycling each round through the action, some won't. I'm not familiar with the Model 70, but it seems relatively few companies produce parts or accessories for them, narrowing your options(Prove me wrong, folks. Prove me wrong. Seriously, I'd welcome links or direction on where to find aftermarket components such as DBM kits.) Hope that makes sense, I had a late night/early morning.

 

[Surffshr]

By fixed box magazine, do you mean internal magazine with no floor plate? Let me add to that as well. I would like to have a stock that will accept a DBM system. I don't even know if its possible. There are not a lot of options, as well as open information, about doing this with a Model 70. I would definitely like to get that answered so I can at least narrow down my options and move forward. Thank you for post

As stated below, there is one option for a DBM system for a M70. CDI makes it and they will inlet most stocks to accept it (contact them for specifics). McM and Manners will inlet any of their stocks to the M70 footprint last I checked, but it is a custom order so expect to wait. The way I had it figured was to get the stock I want from manners, send barreled action and stock to CDI, and have them fix it all up nice and functional. Ended up just going with an internal box mag and standard bottom metal with a manners stock...then ended up moving to m700 pattern actions and getting all kinds of questions answered and aftermarket stuff!

You aren't finding much info on M70 because there isn't much info. Good luck though. M70 is a fine rifle that will dang sure shoot, just not as aftermarket friendly.

 

[jlfar0311]

My terminology may be incorrect in some cases, so bear with me Some fixed magazines will have a "hatch" on the bottom to unload the rifle without cycling each round through the action, some won't. I'm not familiar with the Model 70, but it seems relatively few companies produce parts or accessories for them, narrowing your options(Prove me wrong, folks. Prove me wrong. Seriously, I'd welcome links or direction on where to find aftermarket components such as DBM kits.) Hope that makes sense, I had a late night/early morning.

Ok, yeah that was I was thinking that you meant. I'm pretty sure I can find a stock with a hinged floor plate fairly easily. That being said, I wouldn't want to have my setup like that permanently, I'd still be at a 3+1 capacity. I think I have answered both of our questions though. Did a forum search and came up with this;

Pacific Tool & Gauge, Inc. - Winchester Performance Parts

They make trigger guard/DBM for a great price and it comes for both Model 70 short and long action. Accepts AI magazines, 5 round currently, but this company is in the process of pushing out an 8 rd for 7mm/.300WM. Now I just need to find a stock! Thanks for your time sir