7mm RM... Marginally or significantly more capable then .260?

[Little Yoshi]

Application: Banging steel and running competitions out to 1400yds.
Additional info: Recoil sensitive due to neck and back problems. Trying to stay away from the mighty .300WM.

I have a 260 and have successfully engaged targets out to 1260yds. She seems to be running out of steam at that point so I want something thats going to bring me up to the next level without a significant increase in powder.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

7RM is significantly more capable than 260. It will sling bullets with an easy 60 points more BC (.675 vs .615), ~200fps (3000 vs 2800) faster.

It also has much more recoil and burns barrels quite a bit faster.

If you are looking for more juice than the 260 can provide without a lot more recoil, the 6.5 SAUM might be a good fit. I'm in the same boat. I want more effective range, but am concerned about recoil. I'm still trying to decide between the 6.5 SAUM, 7 SAUM and 7-270WSM.

The 7RM will definitely help for the 1000+ yard shots, but you'll have consequences.

 

[fdkay]

6.5x55 AI

 

[idahoorion]

Hodgdon has it about right. I shoot one for hunting and do bang some steel with it for practice, the bulk of my loads for steel are not really 7rm loads. which leads me to say that his recommend of a 6.5 saum or a 284/280 ai would likely be a better choice for extended range and more moderate recoil, less powder burn etc.

good luck!
Idahoorion

 

[hewlett260]

For same barrel life why not 6.5-284 Norma? Bit more juice than the 260. Or 284. The Rem Mag 7 still has noticeable recoil and wouldn't be much fun with a neck or back injury. I'm right handed and when my left rotator cuff went out, my 308 made any shooting not fun. You will still feel it.

 

[stockdoc]

There are a lot of very effective muzzle breaks in the market right now. Im sure there is one out there suitable to your application wether 7 or 300 mag. Recoil will not be an issue

 

[Little Yoshi]

There are a lot of very effective muzzle breaks in the market right now. Im sure there is one out there suitable to your application wether 7 or 300 mag. Recoil will not be an issue

Any recommendations? I shoot prone most of the time with "positional" situations thrown in.

 

[mountainman308]

JP recoil eliminator. It looks a little silly, but works like a champ. It had my very recoil sensitive girlfriend was shooting a 338 Lapua just fine. The only cons are that it throws gas back at you, which can make your eyes water, and the aesthetics.

 

[1shot2kill]

IMO the 7 mag has a snappy kick and would be at the bottom of my list if I had back problems
A 243 running 107 or 115 dtacs would be my first choice to fit your needs

 

[1shot2kill]

Even better 6.5 saum

 

[buffybuster]

IMO you should give consideration to staying with a Short Action cartridge. The 7RM is more capable than the 260Rem, but, at least for me, you can't run the LA bolt without moving your face out of the way. That alone is a deal breaker for me, in a competition gun. Maintaining head position will save you precious seconds.

So, with those parameters, the 6.5RSAUM will get you to the next performance level. The 6.5-284 or straight 284Win might do it, but those bullets are going to be DEEP seated.

 

[Little Yoshi]

OK - How much better is the 6.5 SAUM over the .260?

 

[BoilerUP]

OK - How much better is the 6.5 SAUM over the .260?

At *least* 200fps faster.

 

[Wannashootit]

We all know the "trade-offs", and there are many, in the long-range game- and we also know there's no free lunch.
It's a matter of priority. Seems to me that if you shoot comps (I don't), it's all about winning- and throat erosion and re-barreling costs would take a back seat. I would pick the most effective cartridge for the task at hand.

If that's the .300 WM, then I'd go with the suggestion above about adding a brake- or even a can (which can also reduce felt recoil) if funds and the stamp aren't an obstacle.

Regardless of what you select, a brake/can is advantageous for you due to your injury. A quality one will not affect accuracy (but may shift POI). Make it a more comfortable experience...and shoot more.

If you haven't shot a rifle with a brake, suggest you do so- I was amazed at the reduction in felt recoil on my 7-08 (which isn't substantial to begin with) down to about 5.56 levels- and no problem keeping the target in the sight picture to spot my own hits without needing a spotter.

 

[wapiti16b]

Check out precision rifle blog .com ( Bartlein Barrels )- (Bug Holes ) and you will see that the 6.5 Creedmore has become more popular with competitive shooters and has edged out the 260 .
Lots of information on this site about everything shooting .

 

[LRShooter101]

Check out precision rifle blog .com ( Bartlein Barrels )- (Bug Holes ) and you will see that the 6.5 Creedmore has become more popular with competitive shooters and has edged out the 260.
Lots of information on this site about everything shooting .

Not sure what data you are looking at? but according to the PRS Data:
Best Rifle Caliber ? What the Pros Use | PrecisionRifleBlog.com

In 2012 the the 6.5 CM had 8 shooters, and the 260 Rem had 12 Shooters

In 2013 they were both tied at 10 shooters for each.

IMHO, all depends on what crowd/circle you shoot with as to whether you will find more of one or the other?

Personally, I run a 260 Rem because of the multiple brass sources, and I shoot handloads. Others, prefer the 6.5 CM because of the Hornday factory ammo offerings.

They both work, to each their own, and yes this topic has been discussed here a couple of thousand of times!

 

[psinclair]

At *least* 200fps faster.

What he said....

I'm playing around with some 140gr JLK's in my 6.5 SAUM and getting 3175-3200fps through a 24" barrel.

 

[LRShooter101]

Per above,

Bullet is your call,
6.5mm can be pushed to beyond 260 Rem performance levels with a larger round like a 6.5-284 or a Magnum like a 6.5 SAUM.
7mm can be pushed to beyond 260 Rem performance levels with a larger round like a .284 or a Magnum like a 7mm Mag or WSM.

Not sure about a 6.5 SAUM, but I have a 21-22 pound .284 rifle that I can shoot without a Brake and the recoil is not beating me up.

Per above if you are going the 7mm Mag route, only option is going to be run an aggressive Brake.

If you go the Brake route, the real issues will then become:
-Barrel Life
-Ammo Issues, Factory Offerings, Component Availability, Costs, etc

Plenty of options, comes down to what matters to the shooter the most?

 

[LRShooter101]

What he said....

I'm playing around with some 140gr JLK's in my 6.5 SAUM and getting 3175-3200fps through a 24" barrel.

Anyone have any good data on what barrel life is on a round like this?

Is this going to eat barrels like a 6.5-284, or is the SAUM case design going to help lessen the pressure and blow torching of the throat?

 

[psinclair]

My barrel has 2700+ rounds through it, and still shoots very good.

 

[Wannashootit]

From what I understand, throat erosion is mostly a function of volume of powder burned, as relates to the bore diameter. Forcing the same volume of combustion gases through a smaller bore creates more erosion than a larger one...the hotter the load, the greater the erosion. No free lunch.

Usually pretty simple to make a rough comparison. While case shoulder angles might result in more efficient combustion and pressure curve, my thinking is that would be a minor, if at all relevant, factor in throat life.

 

[MoBoost]

Unfortunately, 260 is in the efficiency node. Like someone already said, there is no free lunch - even 6.5 SAUM will kick 40-50% harder than 260.

If 260 is inadequate - invest in good brake and start loping some some real heavies, otherwise you'll be splitting ballistic hairs while getting noticeable jump in recoil.

 

[stockdoc]

I have used the surefire two baffle short brake and it works really well. The jp brake also works, but as previously mentioned, it isnt very aesthetically pleasing.

 

[BoilerUP]

Unfortunately, 260 is in the efficiency node. Like someone already said, there is no free lunch - even 6.5 SAUM will kick 40-50% harder than 260.

If 260 is inadequate - invest in good brake and start loping some some real heavies, otherwise you'll be splitting ballistic hairs while getting noticeable jump in recoil.

There is definitely no free lunch.

Running numbers in a recoil calculator, the 6.5 SAUM running 140s @ 3100fps will recoil about the same as a 308 shooting 185s; throw a brake on the end and you're back to a very mild level.

 

[jakelly]

Anyone have any good data on what barrel life is on a round like this?

Is this going to eat barrels like a 6.5-284, or is the SAUM case design going to help lessen the pressure and blow torching of the throat?

No. The barrel life is very impressive using this case. The case allows for the use of slower powders in low pressure loads. It's in a internal/external ballistic supernode that the shooting community hasn't really seen before, but that's just my opinion��

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I'd like to suggest the .280 Rem. Probably 1400yd capable with a 165/168gr bullets, less recoil than the .30-'06, not much more throat erosion. Just rebarrel a .30-'06 with the .280, and the job is done. Brake? Maybe, but I'm medically recoil limited and I don't feel a need for one.

Greg

 

[MoBoost]

No. The barrel life is very impressive using this case. The case allows for the use of slower powders in low pressure loads. It's in a internal/external ballistic supernode that the shooting community hasn't really seen before, but that's just my opinion��

It really depends on what you would call "end of life" - some call it at dramatic velocity drop, some at accuracy drop below optimal - and you can't compare the two!
Still no free lunch - compared to 260 you'll be burning $300 EXTRA in just powder per barrel; not that big of a deal over 3000 rounds, unless you take in consideration that that's how much a barrel costs ....

 

[cblackwell]

Just a quick thought for you. Have your smith run a AI reamer in it and there you have more performance. Many advantages to consider, burn up what you have then move on to the next build, you already have everything you need to make it happen. However a new build is certainly fun.

 

[ahhshoot]

I guess that depends on how often you would be shooting past 1200. Imo the 6.5cm and 260 both fall off around 1300 as far as accuracy goes, in general. You would definitely have better BC options with the 175 and 180 gr pills with the 7mm, and with a brake the 7mm can be tamed down to a pussycat. If you're only rarely shooting past 1300 I would just stick with the 260...if you're already setup to reload that caliber and have all the components and such... If you were hunting there is a significant difference in the amount of energy brought to the target after 500/600 yards and I would suggest 7mm.. But for banging steel...you can't do much better than the 260 or other 6.5 class cartridge..

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Tapatalk

 

[Ljutic SS]

I am shooting a 260Ai using 123 smk's with a velocity of 3,000+ from a 27" Shilen barrel. Using 260 Lapua brass, the shell on the left in the photo is a 260 ready for fire forming, and you can see the OAL is much longer the form Ackley shell on the right.

 

[cblackwell]

I am shooting a 260Ai using 123 smk's with a velocity of 3,000+ from a 27" Shilen barrel. Using 260 Lapua brass, the shell on the left in the photo is a 260 ready for fire forming, and you can see the OAL is much longer the form Ackley shell on the right.

I really like the AI version of this cartridge and think it really shines this way. Good luck to the OP, and have fun with whatever you decide.

 

[Little Yoshi]

Not sure what direction I am heading in just yet as y'all have given me some good info... Thanks! Need to mull this one over.

 

[Dirty D]

I am shooting a 260Ai using 123 smk's with a velocity of 3,000+ from a 27" Shilen barrel. Using 260 Lapua brass, the shell on the left in the photo is a 260 ready for fire forming, and you can see the OAL is much longer the form Ackley shell on the right.

How do the Ackley's feed from a magazine? Is that sharper shoulder an issue?

 

[Ljutic SS]

My receiver is a based on the Rem. 700 that I made and have no issues with feeding.

 

[Little Yoshi]

I really like the AI version of this cartridge and think it really shines this way. Good luck to the OP, and have fun with whatever you decide.

But isnt the increase of the AI marginal? 5% increase?

 

[cblackwell]

But isnt the increase of the AI marginal? 5% increase?

Yep you should see a 5-7ish% increase. I think you should see a 150fps gain over what you have now. That's a lot of performance IMO. I was made a believer in this combo with a 140gr berger hybrid and H4831 sc. It impressed me anyhow. Best of luck to you. Keep us posted.

 

[Ljutic SS]

The gain is closer to 7% in case capacity and velocity gains. 260 Rem. has 53.5 grains of water, the Ackley has 57.4 grains.

 

[LRShooter101]

My barrel has 2700+ rounds through it, and still shoots very good.

Sorry if this was posted elsewhere, but do you care to share the details?

Barrel Details - Manufacturer, Material, Finish, Anything Special, etc?

Load Details - Case, Powder, Bullet, etc?

Performance and numbers like that are amazing, but I am sure that the Devil is in the details?

 

[FTC]

It's in the gap extreme hunter 6.5 saum thread

 

[Little Yoshi]

I wouldn't mind trying out the 6.5 SAUM, but just don't feel like doing all the brass prep... So, my next question: Is the 7WSM a good alternative?

 

[banditbump]

I have had back problems for a long time so i can understand the op's pain and delima. I got more pain lugging a heavy rifle around versus recoil but then again I mostly hunt not compete. So I focus on building light rifles over heavy.

The 6.5s are great out to 1200. How important is the last 200 yards from your op? If they are vital you need a big 6.5 (284 or short mag) or a 7mm. Best of luck with your back problems and shooting.

 

[BoilerUP]

I wouldn't mind trying out the 6.5 SAUM, but just don't feel like doing all the brass prep...

Then buy ammo and/or prepped brass from Copper Creek. Not cheap, but done for you.

The issue I see with a 7mm bore right now is the unavailability of optimal bullets compared to 6.5mm.

 

[jakelly]

I wouldn't mind trying out the 6.5 SAUM, but just don't feel like doing all the brass prep... So, my next question: Is the 7WSM a good alternative?

Brass prep won't be an issue with a 7wsm cause there isn't any

 

[Little Yoshi]

Brass prep won't be an issue with a 7wsm cause there isn't any

Go figure!

 

[LRShooter101]

Then buy ammo and/or prepped brass from Copper Creek. Not cheap, but done for you.

The issue I see with a 7mm bore right now is the unavailability of optimal bullets compared to 6.5mm.

When you say "unavailability", are you referring to inventory on shelves, or options to choose from?

 

[LRShooter101]

Thanks to psinclair for sharing the info on the 6.5 SAUM, and to FTC for pointing me to the gap extreme hunter 6.5 saum thread. I had been ignoring it because I have no interest in hunting or lightweight rifles, guess I need to broaden my horizons!

 

[jakelly]

How many rounds is George up to now? Must be 4500+ did it ever get rebarreled?

 

[BoilerUP]

When you say "unavailability", are you referring to inventory on shelves, or options to choose from?

A number of options (168/180 Bergers, 175/180 SMK, 162 Hornady)...nothing in stock.

 

[LRShooter101]

A number of options (168/180 Bergers, 175/180 SMK, 162 Hornady)...nothing in stock.

I was afraid that was the case! They have been on the shelves around here, but they have all disappeared over the last couple of weeks. Looking around now, it appears they may be gone for a while.

I have a stash that will cover me for a couple of months worth of matches, but nothing will be left for practice. I still can't get over how freaking crazy the market is. I can understand the "prepper fodder" being hard to find, but the fact that you can't find precision reloading components still blows my mind. I can remember when a box of Berger Bullets would sit on the shelf for months, but not anymore.

Apologies for the sidetrack.