A custom rifle starts with a custom barrel

[JAS-SH]

I'm going deep into building a big budget custom .22 LR rifle. I want to compete in .22 LR venues. My philosophy is always to build the rifle around the barrel, then the action, then everything else.

Disclaimer: I own a .22 magnum with a Lilja "match" barrel. It shoot's lights out at 50 yards. That makes me somewhat biased but not so much to stop looking for the best of the best.

So, I started looking at Olympic rifle data in .22 LR. If anyone knows about .22 LR barrels it's the Olympic guys. We're talking about bragging rights, not just for an individual, but for a whole freaking country...

So, I went looking for the most recent data I could find for barrels used in the Olympics. There were only three rifle manufacturers in the last Olympics. Anschutz was kind of a distant 3rd, and one rifle stood out.

Here are the links:

Shooting-Zhang sets rifle 3P world record, Quiquampoix wins rapid gold​

China won the 3P in 2021. Zhang broke a record for the 3P (Positions) 50 meter event. But, he did this with a Swiss made rifle made by Bleiker, a $10,000 rifle. Look at the brand name on the rifle's action here:
https://www.reuters.com/world/china...tle-defence-25m-rapid-fire-pistol-2021-08-02/

And the barrel? "All Bleiker rifles use Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels that are made in Montana": - go down the article to the Bleiker Challenger II heading
https://gundigest.com/article/oddball-rimfire-rifles

I'm definitely letting that sink in a bit...

 

[acudaowner]

i started mine on a chassis wanted to start it on a pillow , then a trigger later I decided to keep it simple and the chassis won . it is a really nice
pillow

 

[krw]

Do a little research and look at what the top IR50/50 barrels were. I hav 2 Lilja. Both better than Me!!

 

[King_beardsly]

I’d choose a rifle starting with discipline and action choose, because a bench rest build is worlds different then a PRS/NRL rig.

 

[Alabusa]

My NRL/PRS rifle is a CZ457 with a Lilja barrel. It will shoot much better than I am capable.

 

[JAS-SH]

I’d choose a rifle starting with discipline and action choose, because a bench rest build is worlds different then a PRS/NRL rig.

I already have PRS and a NRL rifles. I want a bench rest rimfire and maybe a rimfire f-class as well

Although I'm also looking at Stiller action, this one below could be an option as well, but probably only the action. No reason to ship a Lilja barrel to Bleiker to have it shipped back to me:

 

[King_beardsly]

I already have PRS and a NRL rifles. I want a bench rest rimfire and maybe a rimfire f-class as well

Although I'm also looking at Stiller action, this one below could be an option as well, but probably only the action. No reason to ship a Lilja barrel to Bleiker to have it shipped back to me:

View attachment 8117251

Gotcha, I’ll though about dabbling in building bench rest rig but it’s definitely a whole other level of precision and pricing.

 

[Hoser]

I have seen more Lilja barrels in parts bins/lockers/ect at the Olympic Training Center than I have in rifles.

Lilja makes a good barrel and I have one good one. But I went through a few to find that good one. It is a hammer, but it is finicky as hell.

Short bolt actions like the Bleiker are not aimed at benchrest, PRS or even F-Class type shooting. They are for coat and sling shooters that dont want to break position to load another round. Unless you have long arms, that short bolt is a huge advantage.

 

[whatsupdoc]

If you look at rimfire bench rest equipment Mullerworks and Shilen barrels seem to dominate.

 

[littlesister]

If you look at rimfire bench rest equipment Mullerworks and Shilen barrels seem to dominate.

Yes, along with 2500x and Turbo actions. If there was a more accurate combination it would dominate UL benchrest. No one is more serious about 22 accuracy than these guys. Bleiker actions don't cut it in UL benchrest.

 

[Csafisher]

Krieger, shilen, mullerworks.

2500x/turbo or vudoo single shot with flavio trigger

Stock of choice

 

[todde]

If your new to RFBR choose you parts from performance and support. Who will be there to answer questions?
Todd

 

[whatsupdoc]

Krieger, shilen, mullerworks.

2500x/turbo or vudoo single shot with flavio trigger

Stock of choice

Going to have to look hard to find a Krieger barrel in there.

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[Csafisher]

Doesn’t mean they don’t make a good barrel. I’d start with a krieger over a hart, broughton, or benchmark.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Yes it seems crazy that cut rifled barrels dont dominate rimfire benchrest, Muller barrels are pretty much impossible to
get. Just got a Vudoo with a Shilen barrel and from the initial tests it appears to be a very good barrel.

And yes @Csafisher Krieger makes superb barrels.

 

[deadly0311]

I already have PRS and a NRL rifles. I want a bench rest rimfire and maybe a rimfire f-class as well

Although I'm also looking at Stiller action, this one below could be an option as well, but probably only the action. No reason to ship a Lilja barrel to Bleiker to have it shipped back to me:

View attachment 8117251

Having imported a few Bleikers for some Olympic shooters and hearing some feed back, they’re not magical. The last 3 we brought in, the customer ordered I believe 6 total barrels so they could find the best one.

Of all the aftermarket barrels we’ve installed on rifles, performance wise they go in this order: Benchmark 2 groove, Benchmark 3 groove, Kreiger, Shilen, and finally Lilja. I have a Bartlein gain twist to install for a guy but haven’t gotten it installed yet.

Olympic shooters really don’t know much at all about the inner workings of the rifles. They are hard as shit on their stuff and hand it off to someone else when it’s not acting right.

 

[chevy_man]

I think my b14 is getting a benchmark next winter.

They were the top company showing up next to lija, but without the attitude lija has.

So far my center-fire benchmarks are .25" guns, so I'll trust that they can carry that through to the rimfire with as many wins as they have.

 

[JAS-SH]

I think my b14 is getting a benchmark next winter.

They were the top company showing up next to lija, but without the attitude lija has.

So far my center-fire benchmarks are .25" guns, so I'll trust that they can carry that through to the rimfire with as many wins as they have.

I'm curious, what is Lilja's attitude?

 

[BowChamp]

I think my b14 is getting a benchmark next winter.

They were the top company showing up next to lija, but without the attitude lija has.

So far my center-fire benchmarks are .25" guns, so I'll trust that they can carry that through to the rimfire with as many wins as they have.

I'm curious, what is Lilja's attitude?

I too am curious about this attitude.

 

[chevy_man]

I'm curious, what is Lilja's attitude?

There's many complaints over the years. They wouldn't be in business with their customer service. Their barrels are excellent, which is why people keep dealing with them.

There was a thread here a few years ago with a bad review, and many more came forward with the same story.

 

[JAS-SH]

There's many complaints over the years. They wouldn't be in business with their customer service. Their barrels are excellent, which is why people keep dealing with them.

There was a thread here a few years ago with a bad review, and many more came forward with the same story.

Thanks for the info. Personally my experience has been very good. I had light primer strikes (no ignition) with a new barrel. When I reached out to them about this issue, I had an email back from Carlson Lilja within a couple of hours.

Turned out to be a weak firing pin spring, not a barrel issue. Coud not have asked for a better response time from them.

 

[Milo 2.5]

There's many complaints over the years. They wouldn't be in business with their customer service. Their barrels are excellent, which is why people keep dealing with them.

There was a thread here a few years ago with a bad review, and many more came forward with the same story.

Hasn't management changed hands since most of the complaints were leveled?

 

[kthomas]

In my 10+ years of br shooting I've never seen a cut rifled barrel on the top of any standings. When Tony boyer tried rimfire he was using a bartlein barrel with "decent" success not top level success. There is a reason cut rifle barrels don't do well in br. I'd start with shilen or muller right now I have both for my br rig and they are all very good barrels. I most definitely would never ever go with a cut rifling barrel. Sam

Yes it seems crazy that cut rifled barrels dont dominate rimfire benchrest, Muller barrels are pretty much impossible to
get. Just got a Vudoo with a Shilen barrel and from the initial tests it appears to be a very good barrel.

And yes @Csafisher Krieger makes superb barrels.

What makes a cut rifled barrel not optimal for rimfire?

For benefit of learning, I'm also going to tag in @Frank Green for his perspective.

I'm not a rimfire guy (would love to own a top end one, one day), but genuinely curious.

 

[chevy_man]

Hasn't management changed hands since most of the complaints were leveled?

Most of the complaints were about the time the kid was taking over.

He may have pulled his head out since then.

The one time I called, I figured I'd only ever buy one from a smith and never direct.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Most of the complaints were about the time the kid was taking over.

He may have pulled his head out since then.

The one time I called, I figured I'd only ever buy one from a smith and never direct.

You may be correct, when I got into LR shooting, I was told a couple stories. I just ordered a 9tw from them, still in the works, but every aspect so far of the transaction is very positive.

 

[Williwaw]

What makes a cut rifled barrel not optimal for rimfire?

There is a reason cut rifle barrels don't do well in br.

Good question kthomas, when I first saw the above statement I was wondering if Turbo2 could/would tell us the reason if asked.

 

[chevy_man]

What makes a cut rifled barrel not optimal for rimfire?

For benefit of learning, I'm also going to tag in @Frank Green for his perspective.

I'm not a rimfire guy (would love to own a top end one, one day), but genuinely curious.

Historically, button rifled barrels from lija and benchmark have been top of the leaderboards in benchrest.

Now, just because they worked doesn't mean something else can't work better.

It's just that if the benchrest guys try cut and go back to button, the trend follows that buttons tend to do better. Then everyone buys buttons, and they keep winning.

Rimfire doesn't really follow the logic of everything else because the cartridge is tiny, the lead is super soft, and it can't be feasibly handloaded. It's why we lot test ammo, have 20 different reamers to choose from for the same chambering, and myths and black magic live on.

 

[kthomas]

Mullerworks are cut rifled barrels, or at least their center-fire barrels are.

So this is not so much a cut vs buttoned barrel for precision, but more so a difference between brands that appear to make better rimfire barrels than others. Is this correct?

 

[kthomas]

What properties of a button rifled barrel make them more accurate for rimfire than cut rifled?

 

[littlesister]

What properties of a button rifled barrel make them more accurate for rimfire than cut rifled?

Buttons produce a more uniform rifling pattern and a smoother bore.

 

[jsel10]

Anyone run a Hart? They are button rifled and have been in the game forever.