A few questions on a 16.5" 6.5CM

[Gorf]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and new to precision shooting so excuse me if this has been asked before. I did a quick search but did not find what I was looking for.

I'm sure everyone has seen this article: https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-...el-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/

It seems that you lose, depending on ammo, ~100fps going from a 24" to a 16.5" how significant is this at lets say 800 or 1000m?

I think I'm looking to get a short, scout-like rifle with a short bolt throw in a lightweight chassis with handguard with foldable stock. Very similar to the Fix by Q. I just don't want the Fix.

I won't be shooting at 1km alot, I just want to be able to. this will be more for hunting/plinking and and "medium" range target shooting for fun at around 600ish I'm guessing.

What are your guys's opinion on this? Is there factory ammo available that like shorter barrels or would I have to reload? is the FPS drop not worth it?

Thanks. I will give more info if requested

 

[jpspeeddemon]

short barreled 6.5's can go pretty far

i think most are favoring the lighter 120 to 130 grain bullets for the short barreled 6.5cm

 

[Supersubes]

My experience is that you’ll lose a little more than that, but even if it’s 200 FPS, it isn’t significant. It’s packing a lot of performance. My 16.5” Fix was pushing 140’s at 2550 or thereabouts. I’m shooting 123’s at 2675 now, as a 6.5x47 though.


Look into the Sig Cross. It comes in a short Creedmoor.

 

[Aaros143]

I have a 16.5 6.5 tikka, Shoots the same as my 24" 308. Love that rifle.

Shooting factory Hornady 140grn

 

[Gorf]

Thanks for the replies and info.

I dont want to get into reloading as of now, so having factory loads available is nice. The Sig cross looks great, hopefully it isnt a flop.

Are there other options similar? or a gun + chassis recommendation that I can put together?

EDIT: Any scope recommendations? is 4-12 too low of a magnification? Id be adding an offset red dot aswell. Was looking at lower magnifications because of weight. I would like to keep the weight down.

 

[Supersubes]

There’s lots you can put together, but your budget is going to matter. As far as the scope, I’d look at the new Vortex 3-15 LHT. Really nice scope, and only a shade over 19 ounces.

 

[Aaros143]

I started with a Tikka T3X CTR 20". Shot that for awhile and then got it chopped and put a KRG bravo on it.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

I started with a Tikka T3X CTR 20". Shot that for awhile and then got it chopped and put a KRG bravo on it.

OP, i think this would be a really good base for a scout setup. maybe chop the 20" if you want

 

[Gorf]

I was looking at the Tikka CTR for a while, they are readily available here in Canada as a special edition that comes with a muzzle break and a set trigger. the 6.5 CTRs are 24" barrels though. I was going to get that rifle and put it in a green KRG bravo but then I couldn't decide on whether I wanted AI mags or Tikka mags. Eventually decided that I would probably get a 6.5 AR10 and was doing all the research on how to get them accurate as I am very familiar with the AR15 but because the AR10 isn't standardized it is more complicated.

This all changed with the ban a few days ago, shooting an AR10 outdoors will be too complicated until this illegally implemented ban is reversed so until then its bolt action.

So long story short, the ban plus me not necessarily wanting a long, heavy gun has led me away from the Tikka.

I don't mind spending upwards of 2000 CAD on an optic, I don't want garbage. I want a FFP MIL scope with a good reticle.

 

[chrome]

I kind of tripped into this setup below, 16.5in 6.5cm, never really intended on the parts falling the way they did, but it is SUPER fun to shoot at 100 and 1000yds, and everything inbetween:

Ammo	Manufacturer	16in BBL - Avg FPS	16in BBL - SD	16in BBL ES
140gr BTHP	Hornaday (American Gunner) (cold barrel)	2483	15.1	48
130gr HPBT	Prime (warm/hot barrel)	2626	19.6	58
130gr HPBT	Prime (warm/hot barrel)	2601	14.6	48
120gr Lapua Scenar	Berger (hot barrel)	2747	22.5	78
120gr Lapua Scenar	Berger (cold/warm barrel)	2725	15.4	50
120gr	Hornaday ELD (hot barrel)	2679	9	18
		2643.5	16.0	50

 

[B_w.]

I was looking at the Tikka CTR for a while, they are readily available here in Canada as a special edition that comes with a muzzle break and a set trigger. the 6.5 CTRs are 24" barrels though. I was going to get that rifle and put it in a green KRG bravo but then I couldn't decide on whether I wanted AI mags or Tikka mags. Eventually decided that I would probably get a 6.5 AR10 and was doing all the research on how to get them accurate as I am very familiar with the AR15 but because the AR10 isn't standardized it is more complicated.

This all changed with the ban a few days ago, shooting an AR10 outdoors will be too complicated until this illegally implemented ban is reversed so until then its bolt action.

So long story short, the ban plus me not necessarily wanting a long, heavy gun has led me away from the Tikka.

I don't mind spending upwards of 2000 CAD on an optic, I don't want garbage. I want a FFP MIL scope with a good reticle.

I have the CTR with 24 inch barrel in an MDT chassis to run AICS mags. Unless you are getting below 20 inches how much is the 24 inch barrel going to bother you? Tikka barrels run a bit slow so the extra few inches is good. I dont notice much difference between my 24 and 20 inchers. The 16 is noticeably ...shorter. F%%K Trudeau.

 

[dgheriani]

I have the CTR with 24 inch barrel in an MDT chassis to run AICS mags. Unless you are getting below 20 inches how much is the 24 inch barrel going to bother you? Tikka barrels run a bit slow so the extra few inches is good. I dont notice much difference between my 24 and 20 inchers. The 16 is noticeably ...shorter. F%%K Trudeau.

Fuck that turd is right!

I've got a 700 with 26" .308 and 6 Creed barrels (done up by Insite Arms) in a MDT ESS with the folder. The 6 Creed will be burnt out pretty soon and I have my actual match guns with a bunch of 6 Creed barrels so was thinking of doing a 6.5 for it. I'm really liking the idea of a shorter (16"ish) lighter contour (Med palma?). Would have a very small form factor with the folder and still be very capable. My 19" barrelled 6.5 AR-10 was great for inside 1000 before I sold it.

 

[Whiplash6.5]

I’ve got an 18” 6.5 Creedmoor I just chopped from 24” it’s a medium Palma Bartlein. I’m going to take her out this weekend my 130 Sierra’s was pushing 2815 out of my 24” behind 42 grains of H4350. I imagine I’ll still be around 2700.

 

[Crews]

Here's what I got when I judy chopped a 21" barrel down to 16.5". All speeds listed were an average of 10 shots with a Magnetospeed, and all the ammo was factory box Hornady. Barrel was a Kreiger Light Palma, and there was a TBAC Ultra 5 on the end. Seems like I remember the can adding ~20fps in most applications. Hope this helps. And for the record, I love the 16" barreled rifles. Still kills animals as far as I'm competent to shoot (under 600 yards)

 

[260284]

I get 2737 with a 18" Bartlein medium palma that I cut down from 23.5", 140 ELDM that were 2815 out of the 23.5". A lot handier to carry with a 9" suppressor, and still faster than my 20" factory CTR barrel that I had on it. The Norma/RUAG Prime does 2756 out of the 18" barrel. I am sure I can get the 130s faster with handloads.

 

[Gorf]

Nice guns! Seems like from the info you guys posted, I should be looking at ~2500 fps on at 16" with factory 140gr Hornady. Lowlight in the vid posted was getting 2600ish from his 18". Not bad I guess

I know you can get faster but I really dont want to handload at the moment.

 

[dgheriani]

Thanks for the replies and info.

I dont want to get into reloading as of now, so having factory loads available is nice. The Sig cross looks great, hopefully it isnt a flop.

Are there other options similar? or a gun + chassis recommendation that I can put together?

EDIT: Any scope recommendations? is 4-12 too low of a magnification? Id be adding an offset red dot aswell. Was looking at lower magnifications because of weight. I would like to keep the weight down.

Depending on budget I'd suggest either a Bushnell LRTSi 3-12, they can be found cheap with the recent 30% deal and are a great, super tough scope but aren't super light at 28oz. I have a few of them and have used them on various platforms out to 1000 yards with no problem. They make for an awesome gas gun (if they're ever legal again) optic with an offset rds as well. With a bit more budget I'd go for a Leupy Mk5 3.6-18 or a NF NX8 2.5-20, similar weight to the LRTSi but a lot more mag.

 

[Gorf]

My experience is that you’ll lose a little more than that, but even if it’s 200 FPS, it isn’t significant. It’s packing a lot of performance. My 16.5” Fix was pushing 140’s at 2550 or thereabouts. I’m shooting 123’s at 2675 now, as a 6.5x47 though.


Look into the Sig Cross. It comes in a short Creedmoor.

The Cross looks like it can be exactly what I am looking for, if it actually ends up being a good rifle. Not the biggest fan of Sig at the moment but if it ends up being a good rifle I would get one unless there are better options.

The 18" is actually useful because of our laws here, a gun has to be over 26" to be considered non restricted. The Cross in 308 and 277 Fury have 16" barrels putting them at 25" collapsed while the 6.5 CM ends up being 27". The gun can shoot while folded so it has to be over 26" long or else you have more restrictions on where it can be shot ( basically only at shooting ranges) and it has to get registered.

So if I dont get a cross, and get a rifle with a chassis that folds, depending on the receiver length, I may have to go with an 18" barrel over a 16.5" barrel. I'm fine with an 18" though. Aren't these laws fun??

I'm sure there's more 18" barrels than 16.5" out there so maybe theres more rifles to choose from now.

What do you guys think? Build or buy?

 

[Gorf]

Depending on budget I'd suggest either a Bushnell LRTSi 3-12, they can be found cheap with the recent 30% deal and are a great, super tough scope but aren't super light at 28oz. I have a few of them and have used them on various platforms out to 1000 yards with no problem. They make for an awesome gas gun (if they're ever legal again) optic with an offset rds as well. With a bit more budget I'd go for a Leupy Mk5 3.6-18 or a NF NX8 2.5-20, similar weight to the LRTSi but a lot more mag.

Been looking at NF for a while, I like them. I hear good things about the MK5 too. I don't want junk, gotta be a full featured scope. That adds weight though.

 

[dgheriani]

Been looking at NF for a while, I like them. I hear good things about the MK5 too. I don't want junk, gotta be a full featured scope. That adds weight though.

Both the NX8 (28oz) and the Mk5 (26oz) are quite light for what they are. I don't have any experience with the NX8 but I have 2 of the 5-25 MK5s and they've seen thousands of rounds with no hiccups. I also have 3 of the 3-12 LRTSis and they're super solid and a great value for what you can find them for now (as are most of the current Bushy Elite Tac lineup). I have one of the 4.5-18 LRTSs as well but haven't played with it yet.

 

[260284]

4.5-18 LRSTi on the Tikka above. Have taken it to 1400 yards. Have a 4.5-18 LRHS on my 18" AR15 for coyotes. Always wanted to try a 3-12 of either flavor, but these work. The LRHS has a better hunting reticle.

 

[Gorf]

4.5-18 LRSTi on the Tikka above. Have taken it to 1400 yards. Have a 4.5-18 LRHS on my 18" AR15 for coyotes. Always wanted to try a 3-12 of either flavor, but these work. The LRHS has a better hunting reticle.

I'll look into them, the 2.5-20 NF really has my attention at the moment though.

The tikka pictured has the 18" on it?

 

[260284]

I'll look into them, the 2.5-20 NF really has my attention at the moment though.

The tikka pictured has the 18" on it?

18" medium palma Bartlein and TBAC 30P-1.

 

[Gorf]

Both the NX8 (28oz) and the Mk5 (26oz) are quite light for what they are. I don't have any experience with the NX8 but I have 2 of the 5-25 MK5s and they've seen thousands of rounds with no hiccups. I also have 3 of the 3-12 LRTSis and they're super solid and a great value for what you can find them for now (as are most of the current Bushy Elite Tac lineup). I have one of the 4.5-18 LRTSs as well but haven't played with it yet.

I haven't payed much attention to precision shooting until recently, has Bushnell only recently come into favor with their elite scopes? I remember a few years back people talking negatively of them. I rarely ever hear negative things about the Leupold MKs, Nightforce or S&B

 

[B_w.]

The Cross looks like it can be exactly what I am looking for, if it actually ends up being a good rifle. Not the biggest fan of Sig at the moment but if it ends up being a good rifle I would get one unless there are better options.

The 18" is actually useful because of our laws here, a gun has to be over 26" to be considered non restricted. The Cross in 308 and 277 Fury have 16" barrels putting them at 25" collapsed while the 6.5 CM ends up being 27". The gun can shoot while folded so it has to be over 26" long or else you have more restrictions on where it can be shot ( basically only at shooting ranges) and it has to get registered.

So if I dont get a cross, and get a rifle with a chassis that folds, depending on the receiver length, I may have to go with an 18" barrel over a 16.5" barrel. I'm fine with an 18" though. Aren't these laws fun??

I'm sure there's more 18" barrels than 16.5" out there so maybe theres more rifles to choose from now.

What do you guys think? Build or buy?

IBI can spin you up a 16 inch barrel in any profile you want. Shorter the better...just dont put a folder on it.

 

[Gorf]

IBI can spin you up a 16 inch barrel in any profile you want. Shorter the better...just don't put a folder on it.

I'll check them out. Pretty set on a folder, what action do you recommend? I wouldn't want an open top receiver like a Rem700 and it has to be 60 degree throw or less. There's also basically no gunsmiths around so maybe getting a barreled action is better? I have no experience at all in assembling a bolt so I am unsure if you need a smith or special tools for anything.

 

[dgheriani]

I haven't payed much attention to precision shooting until recently, has Bushnell only recently come into favor with their elite scopes? I remember a few years back people talking negatively of them. I rarely ever hear negative things about the Leupold MKs, Nightforce or S&B

I think if you search around on the Hide a bit you'll see not many people have much bad to say about the Bushnell Elite Tac stuff (DMR/HDMR2s, LRTSis, etc) especially at the prices that you can find them. I prefer the glass in my Mk5s but the Bushnell's are tough, can take a hit, have nice turrets, track like surveying instruments and have good reticles.

 

[B_w.]

I'll check them out. Pretty set on a folder, what action do you recommend? I wouldn't want an open top receiver like a Rem700 and it has to be 60 degree throw or less. There's also basically no gunsmiths around so maybe getting a barreled action is better? I have no experience at all in assembling a bolt so I am unsure if you need a smith or special tools for anything.

I put this together recently. It is an Ultimatum Deadline SA in 6.5 with a 16 inch IBI barrel. With the LSS XL chassis and carbine stock it weighs 9.4 lbs. I previously had it in an ESS with folding stock and 29x Athlon Ares ETR and took it out to 800m but it was too heavy so dropped it into the LSS to drop weight. I purchased this as a barreled action so no assembly other than trigger and chassis which are easy. You will read there are some fitment issues with the DL action but it is just a shortened mag catch which MDT will provide and possibly a set screw under the rear tang.

 

[DXT_Shooter]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and new to precision shooting so excuse me if this has been asked before. I did a quick search but did not find what I was looking for.

I'm sure everyone has seen this article: https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-...el-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/

It seems that you lose, depending on ammo, ~100fps going from a 24" to a 16.5" how significant is this at lets say 800 or 1000m?

I think I'm looking to get a short, scout-like rifle with a short bolt throw in a lightweight chassis with handguard with foldable stock. Very similar to the Fix by Q. I just don't want the Fix.

I won't be shooting at 1km alot, I just want to be able to. this will be more for hunting/plinking and and "medium" range target shooting for fun at around 600ish I'm guessing.

What are your guys's opinion on this? Is there factory ammo available that like shorter barrels or would I have to reload? is the FPS drop not worth it?

Thanks. I will give more info if requested

I thought you couldn’t have a barrel length of less than 18.5” in Canada? You might want to check that.

 

[B_w.]

I thought you couldn’t have a barrel length of less than 18.5” in Canada? You might want to check that.

only on semi's.

 

[dgheriani]

only on semi's.

What's the shortest you can go with an ESS with a folder and still be 26" or over? I want to do a shorty.

 

[B_w.]

What's the shortest you can go with an ESS with a folder and still be 26" or over? I want to do a shorty.

Muzzle devices count towards overall length too.

 

[dgheriani]

Muzzle devices count towards overall length too.

Even if not permanently attached?

 

[B_w.]

Even if not permanently attached?

That's right when it comes to overall length. However muzzle devices do not count towards barrel length, even if permanently attached. I will take a picture later with the was folder to get an idea on overall length.

 

[dgheriani]

That's right when it comes to overall length. However muzzle devices do not count towards barrel length, even if permanently attached. I will take a picture later with the was folder to get an idea on overall length.

Cool, thanks, much appreciated. 16" with a folder would be a nice, real small package. 18 or 16, decisions, decisions...

 

[Whiplash6.5]

I’ve got an 18” 6.5 Creedmoor I just chopped from 24” it’s a medium Palma Bartlein. I’m going to take her out this weekend my 130 Sierra’s was pushing 2815 out of my 24” behind 42 grains of H4350. I imagine I’ll still be around 2700. View attachment 7318253

Update I twenty rounds over the chrono today and averaged 2640 with 42 grans of H4350 pushing 130 gr Sierra’s. Grouping were around a dime at 200 yards. Overall I’m pretty happy going from 24” to 18”.

 

[B_w.]

Cool, thanks, much appreciated. 16" with a folder would be a nice, real small package. 18 or 16, decisions, decisions...

Just put the tape measure to it and with the MDT and ESS folding stock you just hit 26 inches with no muzzle device. With the MDT elite brake I have it is long enough you would probably be safe at 15 inches.