A must read book....

[pmclaine]

I came into the pit to make a post about a book Im into the first 20 pages of.

Im finding its a damning of our current culture and the symptoms of our ills are the topic of the other Pit post "WTF"....

The Book...

Last Stands "Why Men Fight When all Is Lost"

Author - Michael Walsh

I was expecting a series of historical pieces regarding the greatest "Last Stand" battles through time but the first section is an accounting of what is happening in our society and the danger we are in.....basically Cody from the "WTF" post is not going to save our nation, our enemies see it, and if we dont unfuck ourselves the base natures of humanity that have functioned since the earliest times will bring about those outcomes that have resulted since the earliest times.

I think many here know the problems he writes about....its just nice to see it in print outside the confines of our usual echo chambers.

I was first exposed to the book in an Epoch Times article discussing whether or not we would have "Heroes" step up today and perform those impossible tasks we ask ourselves "How did they do it, how did they endure it and function to the point of succeeding?"

I think the answer is no we wont have those Great Heroes if we continue on the trajectory we are on.

The author understands there is no PC in war and he writes as if he is battle......not for the inclusive proponent, as the reality of war is the ultimate in exclusion......you are excluding your enemy to death.

Last Stands

"A philosophical and spiritual defense of the premodern world, of the tragic view, of physical courage, and of masculinity and self-sacri...

www.goodreads.com

 

[Maggot]

Where are Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Henry, Adams, Franklin, et.al. when wen need them. Or Kennedy, Eisenhower and the rest of the (second) greatest generation. That said with no disrespect I just hold the founders to be the greastest we have produced. They founded it. The second defended it.

Maybe its up to us but honestly I dont even know where to start. Per the thread on it, I fasted and prayed today, that's all I know to do at this point.

 

[Maggot]

From Herodotus The Histories a book everyone should read.

To Athens and Sparta Xerxes sent no heralds to demand earth, and this he did for the following reason. When Darius had previously sent men with this same purpose, those who made the request were cast at the one city into the Pit62 and at the other into a well, and bidden to obtain their earth and water for the king from these locations. [2] What calamity befell the Athenians for dealing in this way with the heralds I cannot say, save that their land and their city were laid waste. I think, however, that there was another reason for this, and not the aforesaid.63 134.

Be that as it may, the anger of Talthybius, Agamemnon's herald, fell upon the Lacedaemonians. At Sparta there is a shrine of Talthybius and descendants of Talthybius called Talthybiadae, who have the special privilege of conducting all embassies from Sparta. [2] Now there was a long period after the incident I have mentioned above during which the Spartans were unable to obtain good omens from sacrifice. The Lacedaemonians were grieved and dismayed by this and frequently called assemblies, making a proclamation inviting some Lacedaemonian to give his life for Sparta. Then two Spartans of noble birth and great wealth, Sperthias son of Aneristus and Bulis son of Nicolaus, undertook of their own free will to make atonement to Xerxes for Darius' heralds who had been killed at Sparta. [3] Thereupon the Spartans sent these men to Media for execution. 135.

Worthy of admiration was these men's deed of daring, and so also were their sayings. On their way to Susa, they came to Hydarnes, a Persian, who was general of the coast of Asia. He entertained and feasted them as his guests, and as they sat at his board, he asked: [2] “Lacedaemonians, why do you shun the king's friendship? You can judge from what you see of me and my condition how well the king can honor men of worth. So might it be with you if you would but put yourselves in the king's hands, being as you are of proven worth in his eyes, and every one of you might by his commission be a ruler of Hellas.” [3] To this the Spartans answered: “Your advice to us, Hydarnes, is not completely sound; one half of it rests on knowledge, but the other on ignorance. You know well how to be a slave, but you, who have never tasted freedom, do not know whether it is sweet or not. Were you to taste of it, not with spears you would counsel us to fight for it, no, but with axes.” 136.

This was their answer to Hydarnes. From there they came to Susa, into the king's presence, and when the guards commanded and would have compelled them to fall down and bow to the king, they said they would never do that. This they would refuse even if they were thrust down headlong, for it was not their custom, said they, to bow to mortal men, nor was that the purpose of their coming. Having averted that, they next said, [2] “The Lacedaemonians have sent us, O king of the Medes, in requital for the slaying of your heralds at Sparta, to make atonement for their death,” and more to that effect. To this Xerxes, with great magnanimity, replied that he would not imitate the Lacedaemonians. “You,” said he, “made havoc of all human law by slaying heralds, but I will not do that for which I censure you, nor by putting you in turn to death will I set the Lacedaemonians free from this guilt.” 137.

 

[ZiaHunter]

Thanks for the recommendation and ordered a copy

 

[DuneBoer]

Just ordered a copy....

 

[DuneBoer]

 

[GTOJOSH]

Thomas Paine nailed it many times.

"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly:  It is
dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows
how to set a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange
indeed, if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be
highly rated."

For too long we've taken for granted everything those who came before us struggled to make it so for us. In consequence we have slipped much too far back into opression one way or another- at times unwittingly. Turning nearly all our independent thought process, hardships, and securities over to others or devices.
Where can the people turn when they feel they've lost their voice? -Have more things you're for than things that you're against. Believe in, fight for, and defend those things at all cost, because they are your convictions. Your truths. Your genuine and heartfelt inner working that make up who you are. If they are not- decide which ones are and make them so.
Where are the heroes today? I hope they are among us, and that God has prepared the next waive of the best he has to offer to stand resolute and rally the silent majority back into the rightful place of power, as the Sovereign of our nation. It looks most bleak now, but I'm in hopes the trials we are about to face sheds light on those are being shaped and who will shine as our next leaders. But I hope he sends them soon, for as Paine also stated- if there is to be a fight, let it be so in my day. That my children will not have to suffer it in my place.
Stand strong, my brothers. God speed.

 

[pmclaine]

Im thinking he wrote the book based on his observations he is seeing in comparison to his childhood growing up the son of an Inchon/Chosin Reservoir, 5th Marines, vet.

Born on the 4th of July was a crap movie but you follow childhood Ron Kovic "playing" war to being in war.

My childhood was playing guns, shooting BB guns, watching WWII movies. I wouldnt want a world of people having the same experience but we need a Country that has people familiar enough with a variety of "arts" that they can function and be an asset when the Country is in duress.

Up until relatively recently some sort of military service was the norm.

If you are over 50 you probably had a Dad that did two years or went in the Guard, or you had Grandparents/uncles that had been in some shitty places.

Under 50 you could be the product of a family that hasnt seen military service in a generation or two. This despite two decades of constant war, problem being only less than 1% and their families have signed up for that and the other 99% go about their lives blissfully ignorant of them.

For boys this may mean no emphasis on needing to be a jack of all trades with an emphasis on doing your best at everything. Maybe they are specialists now and they are good at the one thing they do. They have been comfortable and nurtured in a stability and comfort that is in their mind unshakeable.

Ill be the first to admit the childhood the author probably experienced, and that of my kids, is probably "toxic" at times. Fuck they hate when Im around and help them make their beds. They cant understand why Id require them to take all the wrinkles out of the sheet before laying the blanket - My intent is not "Hey I want hospital corners" - its Why would you do a shitty job when its so easy, so little effort required, and will be a better experience to just do it right?

Doing it right shouldnt be an option but a duty. Too many willing to "let it slide" and thats okay to an extent but you have to do it right where it matters and I dont think peeps today can make that distinction of when it matters and when it doesnt.

My kids are not young Audie Murphys or Ron Kovics. They have .22s but little interest in getting proficient - they will fire a box and be happy to see the can fall once or twice - whatever they have fun. They would rather get lost in electronics. When I played guns with my friends Id line up the sights and yell "Bang!" thinking I got a clean kill but I also sucked because my frenemy would always shoot back and let me know my imaginary bullet "....only hit me in the shoulder!".

I never went to a war but Im guessing the USMC is still an ominous presence in the house. Had bullets coming in my direction when I wasnt in the pits as well got a letter telling me I was going to a war, packed my bag and went. I wasnt the kid that wanted to renounce his citizenship as I worked at the US Embassy in Ottawa. My wife will acknowledge it by every once in a while saying "We dont need the drill instructor shit". To my kids its some kind of thing they dont understand and I dont think any of their friends have experience with. Veterans are just old guys like my recently passed friend Mario, ancient history, they march in parades and wear black hats with rainbow colored ribbons on the front.

Best I can do with them is get them to learn to shit in the woods and learn to brush teeth/take a bath outdoors while camping. They still wont eat whatever is put in front of them whether they like it or not with an understanding that there may not be another meal after this one. They still expect a perfect world, same as yesterday, same as today, why wouldnt it continue tomorrow, next week, next month......I guess that is an ideal parents want to provide their kids but this generation carries that optimism with no plan B should things not be status quo.

 

[Jim Out]

From Herodotus The Histories a book everyone should read.

To Athens and Sparta Xerxes sent no heralds to demand earth, and this he did for the following reason. When Darius had previously sent men with this same purpose, those who made the request were cast at the one city into the Pit62 and at the other into a well, and bidden to obtain their earth and water for the king from these locations. [2] What calamity befell the Athenians for dealing in this way with the heralds I cannot say, save that their land and their city were laid waste. I think, however, that there was another reason for this, and not the aforesaid.63 134.

Be that as it may, the anger of Talthybius, Agamemnon's herald, fell upon the Lacedaemonians. At Sparta there is a shrine of Talthybius and descendants of Talthybius called Talthybiadae, who have the special privilege of conducting all embassies from Sparta. [2] Now there was a long period after the incident I have mentioned above during which the Spartans were unable to obtain good omens from sacrifice. The Lacedaemonians were grieved and dismayed by this and frequently called assemblies, making a proclamation inviting some Lacedaemonian to give his life for Sparta. Then two Spartans of noble birth and great wealth, Sperthias son of Aneristus and Bulis son of Nicolaus, undertook of their own free will to make atonement to Xerxes for Darius' heralds who had been killed at Sparta. [3] Thereupon the Spartans sent these men to Media for execution. 135.

Worthy of admiration was these men's deed of daring, and so also were their sayings. On their way to Susa, they came to Hydarnes, a Persian, who was general of the coast of Asia. He entertained and feasted them as his guests, and as they sat at his board, he asked: [2] “Lacedaemonians, why do you shun the king's friendship? You can judge from what you see of me and my condition how well the king can honor men of worth. So might it be with you if you would but put yourselves in the king's hands, being as you are of proven worth in his eyes, and every one of you might by his commission be a ruler of Hellas.” [3] To this the Spartans answered: “Your advice to us, Hydarnes, is not completely sound; one half of it rests on knowledge, but the other on ignorance. You know well how to be a slave, but you, who have never tasted freedom, do not know whether it is sweet or not. Were you to taste of it, not with spears you would counsel us to fight for it, no, but with axes.” 136.

This was their answer to Hydarnes. From there they came to Susa, into the king's presence, and when the guards commanded and would have compelled them to fall down and bow to the king, they said they would never do that. This they would refuse even if they were thrust down headlong, for it was not their custom, said they, to bow to mortal men, nor was that the purpose of their coming. Having averted that, they next said, [2] “The Lacedaemonians have sent us, O king of the Medes, in requital for the slaying of your heralds at Sparta, to make atonement for their death,” and more to that effect. To this Xerxes, with great magnanimity, replied that he would not imitate the Lacedaemonians. “You,” said he, “made havoc of all human law by slaying heralds, but I will not do that for which I censure you, nor by putting you in turn to death will I set the Lacedaemonians free from this guilt.” 137.

Thomas Paine nailed it many times.

"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly:  It is
dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows
how to set a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange
indeed, if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be
highly rated."

For too long we've taken for granted everything those who came before us struggled to make it so for us. In consequence we have slipped much too far back into opression one way or another- at times unwittingly. Turning nearly all our independent thought process, hardships, and securities over to others or devices.
Where can the people turn when they feel they've lost their voice? -Have more things you're for than things that you're against. Believe in, fight for, and defend those things at all cost, because they are your convictions. Your truths. Your genuine and heartfelt inner working that make up who you are. If they are not- decide which ones are and make them so.
Where are the heroes today? I hope they are among us, and that God has prepared the next waive of the best he has to offer to stand resolute and rally the silent majority back into the rightful place of power, as the Sovereign of our nation. It looks most bleak now, but I'm in hopes the trials we are about to face sheds light on those are being shaped and who will shine as our next leaders. But I hope he sends them soon, for as Paine also stated- if there is to be a fight, let it be so in my day. That my children will not have to suffer it in my place.
Stand strong, my brothers. God speed.

Thank you both for posting.

 

[Maggot]

Thomas Paine nailed it many times.

"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly:  It is
dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows
how to set a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange
indeed, if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be
highly rated."

For too long we've taken for granted everything those who came before us struggled to make it so for us. In consequence we have slipped much too far back into opression one way or another- at times unwittingly. Turning nearly all our independent thought process, hardships, and securities over to others or devices.
Where can the people turn when they feel they've lost their voice? -Have more things you're for than things that you're against. Believe in, fight for, and defend those things at all cost, because they are your convictions. Your truths. Your genuine and heartfelt inner working that make up who you are. If they are not- decide which ones are and make them so.
Where are the heroes today? I hope they are among us, and that God has prepared the next waive of the best he has to offer to stand resolute and rally the silent majority back into the rightful place of power, as the Sovereign of our nation. It looks most bleak now, but I'm in hopes the trials we are about to face sheds light on those are being shaped and who will shine as our next leaders. But I hope he sends them soon, for as Paine also stated- if there is to be a fight, let it be so in my day. That my children will not have to suffer it in my place.
Stand strong, my brothers. God speed.

Perhaps thats part of the problem, we try to make life easy for our kids and in doing eliminate some of the challenges that made us as tough as we are. I never went to war either, but that doesnt mean there werent really hard struggles. Growing up on a farm I learned about hard work and did that for most of my life and loved it. Ive failed many times but always got up and carried on. The failures made me stronger. Do we do our kids a disservice by trying to soften their failures. The ones who crossed the Atlantic, the ones who pioneered west, had no safe space to retreat to, it was struggle or die.