A New Leaner Marine Corps?

Slapchop

Slapchop

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 1, 2009
674
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46
New York
#1
Been a lot of talk lately about the reorganization of the finest fighting force the world has yet to see. While I totally agree with the notion of focusing on expeditionary roles, the USMC is known for adapting and overcoming anything but reducing the numbers might not be such a good idea.

USMC Downsizing
 
#3
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

They are downsizing all branches! It sucks.. less dwell time means even more hardships for families. I think I saw something like getting rid of 140,000 in the Army!

High Binder, that is the issue.. we will not stop doing what we are doing we will just do it with less people sot he individuals who do stay in are going to be even more used and abused.
 
#4
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say downsize them all, less people means less of our people sent out to pointlessly police the world and get killed all to line some prick's pocket. </div></div>

Aye.
 
#5
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

The Marines are too small already. They need at least the 9th Marines back. They deactivated them in 94, supposedly to make room on the TOO for the LAV bns, but the LAV bns already existed and were in Panama and Desert Storm. It was just part of the RIF after the first Gulf War.
The Marines have responsibilities all the time, regardless of what is going on in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, whatever. There are always MEUswhich are Infantry Bns with all attachments like a Plt of tanks, TOWs, Tracks, a battery of Arty, a composite Helo sqn, some harriers, support and supply detachments, a Recon plt, and more. For every one out, one has just come back and one is getting ready to go out and replace them. When they exchange responsiblity they do it "on station" out in the Med or the Pacific, or farther, so at time 2 units are deployed at sea instead of one.
Then you got the training required for the myriad responsibilities of the marines. Did you know Scandinavia is the responsibility of the Marines? Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Iceland? Yes, the marines are considered the US military's Cold weather fighters, as well as the only force that can effectively deliver a sufficiently powerful force to hot zones on short notice. The capability of the Airborne isn't even close. And the Marines had the good sense to have a Maritime Prepositioning Force with all the vehicles, heavy weapons, and ammo and supplies to get troops into action without having to bring the heavy stuff to the theater.
The Army doesn't have the ability anymore to do that without hiring lots of civilian ocean transport, likely flagged in Liberia or Panama. The US navy will be busy moving Marines with the limited amount of shipping they have ready and available. Don't count on anything mothballed, because there are no crews and most of those old ships are not anywhere near ready to go in less than 3 months anyway, with alll that time in the limited yard space still left.
The marines needs to be bigger. the deployment schedule to Afghanistan, as well as the other deployments, are stretching already, especially the Infantry units.
The 4th Marine Div (Reserve) helps, but they can't be counted on the same way as a AD unit and can't deploy near as often, maybe once in 4 years of so if that.
But Ron paul fanboys join forces with the Commie Left to ignore reality of the world, which is it is a dangerous, dangerous place and everybody hates us because they are jealous.
And Ron paul has a long legacy of anti-semitism in his history, so siding with the Muslims to wipe out Israel is right down his alley.
Bring back the 9th Marine Regiment, and take the Atlantic coastline between Jacksonville Fla. and Sea World for a new base for them and the unit kicked out of Okinawa by the Japs.
Or reopen the bases in Puerto Rico and station them there. They can shell and bomb Vieques like they used to.
Amos is talking about eliminating another Regiment of Marines, as well as a disproprtionate amount of their limited aromor as well as a couple air Groups. He is a idiot, which is why Obama apponointed him. To me, he is traitor to the Corps, and not dealing in the real world. His youthful experiences in Hawaii, Okinawa, and California in peace didn't teach him that you go to war with what you had yesterday, and when you go in you stay until the job is done, not a "pop up" force. The Army, as small as it is now, is incapable of doing the jobs alone. That's established.
 
#6
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

I haven't been impressed with "Airwing Amos" since he took over. I think everyone was hoping General Mattis would become the Commandant, but no such luck.

The Marine Corps was asked to do a job in Iraq/A-stan and that meant gaining a little fat (MRAPS, increased recruiting numbers, heavier armor, etc). Shit's gone down hill and none of the branches have a choice; the troop numbers need to be brought down with these smaller budgets. I'm not a cool-aid drinker when it comes to all the fantasy responsibilities that the Marine Corps has but something has got to give if the unholy trinity of budgets, manpower, and responsibilities are going to come together.
 
#7
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

if you think the marines are going to clear the pirates out of Somalia, like they eventually will, or reopen the Suez Canal, like they may have to do, or take the iranian side of the Straights of Hormuz, like we have been planning to do since 1981 and likely will have to, and help defend taiwan, cause the ChiComs want it, Okinawa, and a bunch of little rock islands all the way down to Indonesia, and you think we can do it and everything else we have to do, and do it with only 8 Regiments, not all the battallions being near a deployable state, and less armor, air, and arty that ever, you are wrong.
We barely could get a Brigade together when Korea broke out, and Chosin was fought by a large precentage who made the mistake of staying Reserve after WW II.
The last thing to do is cut the Corps. They are always the first to be called, and the first to be put in harms way. That's the job. If you want to try and fight Iran with 2 BLTs, good luck. I would rather do it with 9 Brigades.
Amos is the kinda guy who they invented Fragging for. He has no clue. They need to pull Charlie Krulak off the retired list and listen to him. Or J.J. Sheehan.
A real Marine, and not a political one, would tell Congress and the never served POTUS they are risking the Defense of the Nation and the lives of those who will still be serving by continuing to cut defense like they have been for almost 20 years.
These days, if Belgium went to war with us I doubt we could find the men and equipment to even put up a decent fight. Venezuela could run roughshod and we wouldn't be able to stop them after these cuts.
There are no "Fantasy Responsibilities" for the Corps. They never expected to be on the Yalu, or in afghanistan, or in Beruit, or in Panama City. But they were.
They never expected to be fighting in Hue or Fallujah, but shit happens. Marines always get jobs they didn't expect, in places they didn't expect.
 
#10
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

They are cutting all branches whether we like it or not it is going to happen. It sucks but oh well they have to save money and that is the way it will happen.

They said something about cutting like 140,000 out of the Army! The Air Force numbers are about 1/2 of what they were when I joined... its going to keep going like this.

Do more with less.
 
#11
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

Too bad they can't drop all the useless parts of the "tail" & keep the "teeth" of the military but getting rid of paperpushers & civie DOD is next to impossible.

Hmmm ... maybe we should suggest that POTUS take a pay cut & curtail all those vacations. Oh yeah, & have Congress cut their pay & bennies !! Whoa ... did I take the wrong meds this AM ???
 
#12
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

The Corps has faced such times befrore, as have the other services. It's all on the wheel, and right now the wheel says 'cut'.

Does anybody here remember the 'Peace Dividend'?
 
#13
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too bad they can't drop all the useless parts of the "tail" & keep the "teeth" of the military but getting rid of paperpushers & civie DOD is next to impossible.

Hmmm ... maybe we should suggest that POTUS take a pay cut & curtail all those vacations. Oh yeah, & have Congress cut their pay & bennies !! Whoa ... did I take the wrong meds this AM ??? </div></div>

As much as everyone hates the paper pushers the guys on the ground depend on them! Think about making sure your SGLI is on point so your family gets money or your pay is correct.. they are already gutting just about every paper pusher and moving to computer systems which to me is kind of scary... where is the QC?

My hope is that they don't cut a lot of funding for R&D on future assets!
 
#14
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say downsize them all, less people means less of our people sent out to pointlessly police the world and get killed all to line some prick's pocket. </div></div>

But this is a time where America's weak political figures have really put us in a bad place for getting our asses handed to us, so really we need a strong military right now.
 
#16
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say downsize them all, less people means less of our people sent out to pointlessly police the world and get killed all to line some prick's pocket. </div></div>

But this is a time where America's weak political figures have really put us in a bad place for getting our asses handed to us, so really we need a strong military right now. </div></div>

The military is controlled by those "weak political figures". The only way your argument would hold water is if the the military operated beyond their control. Thus, a smaller military means less of our boys being controlled by these "weak political figures" who are not weak at all, rather they simply don't respect for our boy's lives and are willing to waste them on pointless policing actions...
 
#18
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

I was in the Army in the 90's when the "Peace Dividend" was the word of the day. We went from 768,000 to 495,000 with a loss of seven divisions. We are at the end of the spending spree of the last 10 years as the government has spent like drunken sailors on shore leave. This is a down cycle and all the services will take a nasty cut. We are at 15 trillion dollars in debt - not much room to go up anytime soon. This down turn will take years (probably at least 20-50) to right itself if it ever does.
 
#21
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DonniePD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cut the handouts off and make the Military BIGGER!!!! </div></div>

I agree.

The world is becoming more dangerous, rather than less so. The maxim of "Doing more with less" is all good and fine but when one considers the main reasons we are supposedly forced to make these absurdly deep and sudden cuts in military spending, in spite of the varied and numerous threats facing our nation, my belief is that the budgetary relief should not be precisely where our enemies want them.

The main reasons we are faced with these cuts are also varied: Resentment toward the previous administration for the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, (Which of course all of them demanded, (on TV!) prior to our operations...) our increasing subsidy for the defense of all of western Europe, Japan, the Phillipines, etc, while their own expenditure for their military defense has consistently dwindled as a proportion of their GDP, and the obscene exemption of 47% of working Americans paying no income taxes, among many other.

Most of these real reasons for this "Necessary Austerity" can't be stated while the <span style="font-weight: bold">nonsense</span> must be publicly agreed with by those who's careers would be threatened if they spoke honestly.

In the mean time, to placate us, we are being fed the shop worn nonsense that our technological advantage will protect our people, nation, economy, interests, etc., while the largest nation in the world states publicly that they are at war with us...And then there is Iran, Russia, Venezuela,...

Review expenditures and investments of the military? Hell yes. Cut wasteful or unnecessary programs, systems, spending? Absolutely. Reduce the numbers of war fighters? No

I have never served in our nation's military. But my reading of history, and the threats facing our nation, informs me that larger, rather than fewer, numbers of highly trained men and women with rifles (And/or other combat skills) will be necessary for the security of the United States going forward.

 
#22
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rdsii64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never Happen, General Mattis has to much common sense.</div></div>

Common sense is still around but it is now considered a super power.
 
#23
Re: A New Leaner Marine Corps?

Any Officer who openly speaks out about this, like happened in the late 40's when they were talking about not needing a navy anymore, or a MC, and they could all be replaced with B-36 bombers and H-Bombs some spoke out openly. They were shitcanned. Then Korea happened.
It was a very close thing then, as now.
Cutting the Military always is attractive, especially to the Leftists who hate America anyway, and have absolutely no respect for Servicemen or the mission. Clinton and his crew, and his wife and her's, and Obama and his are all prime examples. they will sabotage the military for spite, so they can give more welfare and foodstamps and buy more votes for themselves. They don't consider the Military respectable or productive work. Just a hideout for Psuchopaths and those unabel to find "real jobs", like Ethic Studies or Community Organizing majors. Or Affirmative Action Law School grads.
 
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