I’ve been wanting to learn to build bolt action and ar15 style rifles as a side business. While I’ve already assembled several of both styles I’m aware there’s a few tools that I need for attaching and head spacing barrels to actions and things like that. I’m not going have a lathe for a WHILE so I guess I need to choose my actions wisely on the bolt action side? If someone with experience on the ins and outs of barreling and head spacing bolt actions and ar15 upper receivers I’d much appreciate a run down on the process and tool list required for the job? I’d like to gather the tools and as much experience as I can before I dive in to an FFL and all that jazz. (Side note: Should I just get a type 1 or should I go ahead and get a type 7 in case I do some “manufacturing” on accident?)
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A Rifle Builders Tool Box
- Thread starter OkieGunner21
- Start date
So you’re going to start a business building rifles, but you need to be spoon fed what tools to buy that has been covered hundreds of times… LOL
I’d venture to say you probably aren’t cut out to be a gun plumber, even one slapping parts together in their garage.
You might want to look into business licensing and insurance first… If you can’t figure out what tools you need to bolt prefab parts together you are definitely going to want good insurance and its probably going to cost you close to a decent lathe per year.
I’d venture to say you probably aren’t cut out to be a gun plumber, even one slapping parts together in their garage.
You might want to look into business licensing and insurance first… If you can’t figure out what tools you need to bolt prefab parts together you are definitely going to want good insurance and its probably going to cost you close to a decent lathe per year.
I can definitely figure it out myself but I thought the purpose of these forums was for washed up grumpy old men like yall to help new inexperienced people like me. But you just go ahead a keep complaining that the industry isn’t growing the way you want it to and keep cutting people down… LOL. I was just wanting to know brands and what might be recommended and where you can be cheaper and where you can’t. (Maybe a “If I could do it over” type conversation) There’s new technology out everyday and I’m just trying to gather intel along with my own research. I thought being vague would help. For instance I’ve heard about gauges that you close the bolt on to head space with but instead of letting the AI portion of google or an outdated book tell me what I need I figured I’d try to put myself in contact with people who knew. If starting a thread is a demand for spoon feeding then I’ll see myself out. Gatekeepers
What can you do besides slap prefits on actions and bolt them into chassis without a lathe and a mill?
If you are assembling 100% finished parts with hand tools, what exactly are you providing your customer they can't do themselves with hand tools?
You will need an FFL07 for assembling too. ATF considers pretty much anything "manufacturing" to include cerakoting.
Just some things to think about before diving in with high expectations.
Ern
You will need an FFL07 for assembling too. ATF considers pretty much anything "manufacturing" to include cerakoting.
Just some things to think about before diving in with high expectations.
Ern
You don't know enough to be "gate kept". Yes you need head space guages for every caliber you plan to barrel. Both go and no-go if you want to be able to prove no liability if something goes wrong. You will need action wrenches for every differnt action you plan to barrel. The SAC barrel vice is pretty nice.
The fact is maybe you should read a little more than you have. When you have a list of things a little more detailed people will be willing to help more.
All you can do with out a lathe, at minimum, if put things together. What makes you special that people would pay a significant amount to put things together for them? Are you willing to spend a couple hundred bucks on every new caliber for go guages? Can you measure actual headspace? Have you talked to a lawyer about how to protect yourself in a lawsuit? A FFL?
These are real questions that you need to know the answers to before thinking about tools.
Well that’s what I’m trying to find out you know? Just seeing what the options are
I’m just trying to gain experience. If there’s two things you’ll always be able to make money from its ignorance and laziness. If they don’t know hope or if they don’t want to they’ll pay for it. Not that I’m in it to make money it’s just the facts. I happen to enjoy assembling rifles and would love to build them one day
I recommend going down the rabbit hole of HOBBY as you learn and gather tools for your own projects. I found that when my skills and tools were ready, the simple work just came by word of mouth. Most of those jobs were simple cleaning and light parts repair. Basically the things gunowners should be able to do themselves.......much like light maintenance on your car/truck.
Ern
Ern
If you really wanted to get into gun stuff and you have no money/ skill for a lathe id seriously reconsider your plan and learn to cerakote/duracoat instead. Not only will you be able to build up the money for all the tools and machinery you will need to actually build rifles but the painting will draw business from outside the gun community as well. Bows, car parts, general metal parts, refurbished metal furniture, rims, etc etc etc.
The upfront cost is much lower too. Good compressor and dryer, a few paint guns/ airbrushes and a home made oven will get you going well.
Edit: you might also want to find a machine shop and see if they need a hand or you can volunteer time for knowledge. It doesn't matter is not gun related it's all more valuable than what is needed to put together a gun.
The upfront cost is much lower too. Good compressor and dryer, a few paint guns/ airbrushes and a home made oven will get you going well.
Edit: you might also want to find a machine shop and see if they need a hand or you can volunteer time for knowledge. It doesn't matter is not gun related it's all more valuable than what is needed to put together a gun.
I would suggest you make your money with some other line of work and do the gun building on the side. If the gun building takes off then you can do it full time.
I would also add learning to weld is a solid skill to have as well. If you can, tig welding is preferred. Pin and welds plus repairing damaged parts that aren’t produced any longer can be easy money to add towards your other tooling (lathe, Bridgeport, etc). Just my .2 cents.
Here’s what I recommend. If building rifles is going to be your thing, “kind a” doing them is not the plan.
Get yourself into a good gunsmithing school. Don’t play these games with the knowledge you have displayed.
Oh, if don’t like my thoughts or think I am an asshole, you’re probably right on both counts. Learn the trade properly or go do something else.
(Rebuilding junk bicycles and giving them to families who can’t afford to purchase one for their child is a great hobby, doable and learnable by anyone who is willing to do a bit of studying. Yep, you’ll have to collect some specialized tools, but not like building a rifle)
Get yourself into a good gunsmithing school. Don’t play these games with the knowledge you have displayed.
Oh, if don’t like my thoughts or think I am an asshole, you’re probably right on both counts. Learn the trade properly or go do something else.
(Rebuilding junk bicycles and giving them to families who can’t afford to purchase one for their child is a great hobby, doable and learnable by anyone who is willing to do a bit of studying. Yep, you’ll have to collect some specialized tools, but not like building a rifle)
oh, the irony
This acknowledgement by you should be your first clue that you should not be starting this business and taking people’s money for you to learn on.
Do what Dead Eye said and get into a gunsmithing school, and not one of those correspondence schools either. You will be taught how to use the tools and equipment you need. Then go to work for someone already in the biz, for no salary if need be, for experience and to gain useful knowledge you won't get in school. I doubt you'll find very many shortcuts.
the only tools you need is an action wrench and a barrel vice.
the fact you think people will pay you to do the fun part of the hobby blows my mind.
of course you enjoy it, we all enjoy it.
If you want to make money, save up for a lathe. even I'm thinking about doing that just so I can rebarrel my actions. everyone around me is staying so busy the last year or two.
the fact you think people will pay you to do the fun part of the hobby blows my mind.
of course you enjoy it, we all enjoy it.
If you want to make money, save up for a lathe. even I'm thinking about doing that just so I can rebarrel my actions. everyone around me is staying so busy the last year or two.
There’s a kid in my town that does the whole Nerf gun dress up thing. All the cool kids love it, they look sooo rad. I can’t imagine his tool kit has much more than a mismatched set of worn screwdrivers and a ball peen hammer. Maybe start with that @OkieGunner21
Yes this has been helpful. I am not under the understanding that I’m special for sure. I just have buddies ask me to put things together for them and every piece of FFL advice I’ve heard included the fact that they
Oh, the assumptions
Man you’ve already put it all out there, we’re not making assumptions here
Edit - you’re not going to like any of the advice you get
You can pretty much throw AR15 parts in a bag and shake it & they’ll come out assembled. Doing that for a few friends isn’t the same thing as doing it for customers.
1) get a part time/weekend job in a gun store. Given how you’re taking advice, you’re going to hate customers. Also you’re Gen Z, you have the time, you’re not above this step.
2) read books. If you don’t have the interest to get an apprenticeship, go to school, or read books, you have absolutely zero business assembling weapons for others
JOHN HINNANT THE COMPLETE ILLUSTRATED GUIDE TO PRECISION RIFLE BARREL FITTING | Brownells
Check out the JOHN HINNANT available Online at Brownells Today and many more Books products are available in our Gear Department.
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BROWNELLS BUNDLES GUNSMITH KINKS® 4 VOLUME SET | Brownells
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I've always wondered about the people that come to a forum to ask questions like these. Of the gunsmith buddies I have, they all just started working for manufacturers and eventually branched out to forge their own way. I'm sure they may have asked some mentors they had about a few aspects of setting up their own business but they didn't turn to a forum to ask joe-schmoes. They were a bit more self reliant. More action, less talk. But they were serious about it.
Not even too different, there's a thread on here with a guy asking about chassis "vibes". My buddies and I have run through dozens of chassis over the years. AICS, MPA's, XLR Evo's, Elements, Foundations, ATX's, AI AO...we didn't hop on the forum to ask people to help us make a decision. We just went out on our own and bought a chassis and tried it out for a while. Sold it later, to buy another. We didn't need someone to help us make a decision. I don't think you gain experience by asking questions on forums. I think you gain experience by doing. Share information or opinions? Yes. But you won't have experiences. I'm not saying it's not okay to ask questions. But I think people don't when they aren't real serious about doing and they just want to talk about it more than do it. Or they're trying to shortcut experience which has a narrow margin of success as a course of action.
Not even too different, there's a thread on here with a guy asking about chassis "vibes". My buddies and I have run through dozens of chassis over the years. AICS, MPA's, XLR Evo's, Elements, Foundations, ATX's, AI AO...we didn't hop on the forum to ask people to help us make a decision. We just went out on our own and bought a chassis and tried it out for a while. Sold it later, to buy another. We didn't need someone to help us make a decision. I don't think you gain experience by asking questions on forums. I think you gain experience by doing. Share information or opinions? Yes. But you won't have experiences. I'm not saying it's not okay to ask questions. But I think people don't when they aren't real serious about doing and they just want to talk about it more than do it. Or they're trying to shortcut experience which has a narrow margin of success as a course of action.
This.......!!!
When/if you get a lathe and start chambering rifles are you going to keep asking for reamer spec advice on a forum or are you going to buy the measuring tools/components and figure it out by experimenting on your own.
This niche business only works for the no-shit tinkerer who is ALWAYS looking to build a better mousetrap. If you are not that guy......keep it as a hobby.
Please don't be the "gunsmith" that wrecks someone's parts and leaves it for real rifle builders to try and salvage. We have enough of those already.
If you are serious and dedicated.......nothing said in this thread is going to change your decision.
Ern
All the information you need is already out there. Now if you were asking for machining tip/tricks/tooling etc. I might understand.
I was self taught, learned CAD/CAM myself at night while going to college, taught myself machining basics on a manual machine. There is nothing complicated about building precision rifles, none of the machining is difficult on a manual or CNC lathe if you have 2 brain cells.
Ask the right questions to the right people, find mentors.
I’m also in Oklahoma, if you have specific questions, feel free to reach out. I can provide you with some direction.
I was self taught, learned CAD/CAM myself at night while going to college, taught myself machining basics on a manual machine. There is nothing complicated about building precision rifles, none of the machining is difficult on a manual or CNC lathe if you have 2 brain cells.
Ask the right questions to the right people, find mentors.
I’m also in Oklahoma, if you have specific questions, feel free to reach out. I can provide you with some direction.
This ^^
But, even a ham fisted guy like me can screw a pre-fit barrel onto an appropriate action and bolt it into a chassis and don't need a guy like you to do it for me.
I’m going to go against the grain here… I disagree with the gunsmithing school comment. A certificate from a school does absolutely nothing for you in the precision rifle industry. It’s not like being an engineer and getting your PE which is sometimes useful. Your time and money are better spent on book or a video series. As I stated previously, the machining process and knowledge are already on the internet and not hard to find. I learned this way as well. After learning the basics, I also spent time sweeping floors at one of the more notable smiths shops 3 days a week to pick up some tips and tricks. This was far more useful than any book or video.
For AR's, look at some of the videos from School of the American Rifle. It will give you an idea of what tools you'll need to buy. (School )
Ultimate Reloader has gone through the gun smith schools and is now machining bolt actions for precision as well as Cerakoting. You might learn a thing or two from his videos. (Reloader ) I think he went to Colorado School of Trades for gunsmithing, but he could have just done a blurb there.
Ultimate Reloader has gone through the gun smith schools and is now machining bolt actions for precision as well as Cerakoting. You might learn a thing or two from his videos. (Reloader ) I think he went to Colorado School of Trades for gunsmithing, but he could have just done a blurb there.
Hey man I appreciate the offer I would like to take you up on that one of these days
