Accuracy on a SBR at distance??

[PlinkIt]

How accurate are you guys getting with the shorter barrel ARs?

how short of a barrel, and degree of accuracy at what distance?

thinking of taking the current project somewhere I haven't been.. and short barrel is a new world to me.. I know the short barrels main purpose is not distance.. but I am curious can you have both?

 

[ajwcotton]

I have an 11.5 that I have an eotech on and it is pretty easy to hit a 66% IPSC at 300 and pretty doable at 400. That is without a magnifier, with it is easier still. Like you said not the best tool for the job, but it can be done. As far as mechanical accuracy, with that upper on my nice lower with the geissle trigger and ubr stock with my 1-6 vortex I am getting about 1.5-2 MOA. I coule probably do a little better with a scope with more mag and a finer reticle, but that is plenty good from that upper.

 

[Cobracutter]

Short barrels are just as accurate (and arguably more accurate) as a longer barrel. The issues you run into are velocity and range due to the much lower velocities. If you can dope it, there are people that make hits on man size steel targets at 600 yards with their sbr. Be ready to dial some elevation.

 

[redirt78]

Here is hide member Trident82 with his 10.5 MRP at 700+

MRP CQB 10.5" on Steel @ 773yds - YouTube

 

[PlinkIt]

Here is hide member Trident82 with his 10.5 MRP at 700+

ok.. that was unexpected!!

Short barrels are just as accurate (and arguably more accurate) as a longer barrel. The issues you run into are velocity and range due to the much lower velocities. If you can dope it, there are people that make hits on man size steel targets at 600 yards with their sbr. Be ready to dial some elevation.

more accurate?... I understand the velocity, and most of my shooting with the AR is 400 and under so that would really be ideal for my normal use then?...

I have an 11.5 that I have an eotech on and it is pretty easy to hit a 66% IPSC at 300 and pretty doable at 400. That is without a magnifier, with it is easier still. Like you said not the best tool for the job, but it can be done. As far as mechanical accuracy, with that upper on my nice lower with the geissle trigger and ubr stock with my 1-6 vortex I am getting about 1.5-2 MOA. I coule probably do a little better with a scope with more mag and a finer reticle, but that is plenty good from that upper.

all of this is actually a lot better than I was expecting..


I think I need to start doing some paper work.. and some reading up on short barrels.. anyone got a good info pool on where to get at some things like twist rates velocities gas system issues etc etc? short barrel will be a whole new world for me so I need to study

 

[MSTN]

From a 10.5" C/L LMT barrel with 5.56MM NATO chamber:

M193 2755 fps

M855 2639 fps

Mk 262 2363 fps

Using a brand new Noveske 10.5" N4, an M16A1 lower with a really good KAC trigger, and a NF scope bigger than the gun, I was able to shoot at 100 yards a five shot 0.83" group, followed by a five-shot 0.70" group. I was using BH Red Box VMAX - don't recall the bullet weight.

If velocity is what you're after, you may find this interesting. A SS barrel with a Wylde type chamber, e.g. Noveske Match Mod 0 chamber, will typically give higher velocities than a C/L barrel of the same length with a NATO chamber. I do not have any 10.5" SS numbers, but …. a 12.5" Noveske SS barrel gave comparable velocities to a new LMT 14.5" barrel.

 

[Cobracutter]

ok.. that was unexpected!!



more accurate?... I understand the velocity, and most of my shooting with the AR is 400 and under so that would really be ideal for my normal use then?...



all of this is actually a lot better than I was expecting..


I think I need to start doing some paper work.. and some reading up on short barrels.. anyone got a good info pool on where to get at some things like twist rates velocities gas system issues etc etc? short barrel will be a whole new world for me so I need to study

Depends what you want to do with it. For shooting people its fine. Just keep in mind your going to have zero frag at distance and either are going to get pass through with the small fmjs or little expansion with the heavies. For a pure all around rifle, its hard to beat a 11.5 (or 12.5 if you don't mind the length). You gain a good deal of reliability, cut down on wear, and substantial velocity increases over a 10.5 , and are able to run a longer rail system. Kind of makes the 14.5 and 16 obsolete if all your running is a CL CMV barrel.

As far as the accuracy with a shorter barrel, its theoretical and all things being equal type deal. Depends on quality of barrel, material, and stabilization, but a shorter barrel should be stiffer and impose less forces (the negative kind) on the bullet. Many people have cut down various length guns over the years to find out they get a small increase in accuracy at the expense of velocity (which is barrel and round dependent). It kind of funny, 10 years ago around here, everyone was running pretty much 24-26" .308 bolt guns. Then people started to cut them to 22". Everyone said that was needed to stay supersonic @ 1K. Then people started to cut to 20, and then 18 and eventually down to 16 with good results. It's interesting to see how the institutional knowledge and peoples opinions change over the years. ARMS QD were also the shit back then this idea of putting rails on everything was unheard of.

 

[Cobracutter]

From a 10.5" C/L LMT barrel with 5.56MM NATO chamber:

M193 2755 fps

M855 2639 fps

Mk 262 2363 fps

Using a brand new Noveske 10.5" N4, an M16A1 lower with a really good KAC trigger, and a NF scope bigger than the gun, I was able to shoot at 100 yards a five shot 0.83" group, followed by a five-shot 0.70" group. I was using BH Red Box VMAX - don't recall the bullet weight.

If velocity is what you're after, you may find this interesting. A SS barrel with a Wylde type chamber, e.g. Noveske Match Mod 0 chamber, will typically give higher velocities than a C/L barrel of the same length with a NATO chamber. I do not have any 10.5" SS numbers, but …. a 12.5" Noveske SS barrel gave comparable velocities to a new LMT 14.5" barrel.

Wes,

Do you find that the noveske barrels are a little faster than the non poly or regular CL 1/7's?

Thanks

 

[trident1982]

Here is a little better video @ 600yds. My 10.5" was much more successful at 600yds over the 773yds from the video above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuQoOc9So5A

 

[Huckleberry75]

Here is a little better video @ 600yds. My 10.5" was much more successful at 600yds over the 773yds from the video above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuQoOc9So5A

Trident, were you shooting factory or handloads? If landlords, what sort of combo are you running? If you prefer to not post th recipe in the open forum, feel free to drop me a PM. I have a 10.5" LMT that needs some fodder. Thx.

 

[MSTN]

Wes,

Do you find that the noveske barrels are a little faster than the non poly or regular CL 1/7's?

Thanks

Noveske N4 barrels, the HFCL ones, are no faster than any other similar barrel with a NATO chamber and long throat. The N4 is a pretty standard barrel, but quite well turned out with a great profile that is a good combo of light weight and accuracy potential.

I've never done any chrono work comparing a Noveske SS barrel having poly rifling with a Noveske SS barrel having conventional rifling. My guess is the velocity advantage offered by the Noveske SS barrels over conventional CL barrels of the same length is more due to the tight chamber and short throat in the SS barrel than anything else.

 

[MSTN]

Here is a little better video @ 600yds. My 10.5" was much more successful at 600yds over the 773yds from the video above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuQoOc9So5A

I really enjoy shooting steel. LOVE that sound! I'm no expert, but I've done enough of it to know it's not anywhere near as easy as you made it look. That's some of the most entertaining video footage I've ever seen. It looks like you found an ideal no-wind environment. I was quite surprised with the accuracy of the tracers, too.

 

[PlinkIt]

Here is a little better video @ 600yds. My 10.5" was much more successful at 600yds over the 773yds from the video above.

That is just down right getting it done right there my friend!!.. You making me feel bad about how I shoot the old hbar LOL

Depends what you want to do with it. For shooting people its fine. Just keep in mind your going to have zero frag at distance and either are going to get pass through with the small fmjs or little expansion with the heavies. For a pure all around rifle, its hard to beat a 11.5 (or 12.5 if you don't mind the length)...

My major use will be shooting steel and running drills I set up for practice sake mainly.. But taking the lost of energy into account how would stepping up to a 300 aac round work out in the short?.. That would give it back some pure mass to help with energy.. Might bring max yardage mark down due to weight?.. But also could open up the door to a nice short rifle to place a suppressor on?.. Whispers should still work in this configuration wouldn't they?.. Gas system issues arise though?...

From a 10.5" C/L LMT barrel with 5.56MM NATO chamber:

M193 2755 fps

M855 2639 fps

Mk 262 2363 fps

...I was able to shoot at 100 yards a five shot 0.83" group, followed by a five-shot 0.70" group...

Ok so doing a little math with that basically things start getting weak somewhere around the 400 yard area? And I would never have imagined shorts would shoot that good.. I have always overlooked them.. I guess I am one of the people who hasn't changed their way of thinking like cobracutter said.. But I am listening now and I'm going to turn the project I was building that direction in a hard way.. But is just such an unknown area to me..

 

[PlinkIt]

BTW guys thanks for all the info!!! It's nice to have folks willing to share the knowledge!