Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

[chris240]

Long story short...I found a great public range here in Iowa that has 10 benches at the 200 yard line....covered, cement floor and trees on both sides so wind is negligible. I brought two targets with 5 six inch circles on each one. Out of fifty rounds I had three outside the black(five shots on each circle) 2 .25 outside and one .5 outside. I had the forearm sandbagged and shoulder supported the rear while sitting down. Best 5 shot group was about 2.75

This is the equipment I'm using:

Rock river upper and lower with a free floated Wilson Combat 1:9 mid profile mid gas stainless fluted barrel chambered in 5.56. Surefire muzzle brake and Geissele SSA trigger. Scope is a Trijicon Accupoint 1-4 with Green triangle. The load I'm shooting is 25 grains of H335 with a Montana Gold 55 grain FMJBT bullet that is crimped with a Lee die and mostly LC brass.

My question is where do I go next? I do not want to change the scope or barrel. The trigger is good but not great. What bullet and powder should I try to get a little more out of it. I'm thinking a trigger upgrade would help quite a bit but then I should be tapped out on my current load. I'm just trying to get some feedback.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

Unless your rifle is broken and/or ammunition is defective, you should expect a better result. The sort of result you got with your equipment suggests you might want to work on marksmanship.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

Personally, I don't think you're doin' so bad for 200yd. Charles is right about working on your marksmanship, that's a good idea under any circumstances.

Rather than insisting you beat the horse, I'll answer your question. Getting a Varmint-type upper with at least a 20", better with a 24", barrel and some magnifying optics in the 6-24 range, you'll likely see significant improvement.

Meanwhile, I would still keep the service rifle-type upper for service rifle-type applications. I think that's compatible with your stipulation about not replacing the barrel or sight.

For the service-type rifle, you've already got at least what you need. I think that what you're looking for may be beyond that sort of rifle's capcity, and suggest you add the other upper to satisfy the more demanding accuracy goal. Sorta like a cakeaneatit solution.

Greg

 

[daveog]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

That trigger you have is very good. Perhaps your manipulation of it is where the problem lies. A good trigger doesn't make a rifle shoot better, it makes it easier to shoot better; you still have to do your part. You should be lining up your crosshairs on the target, focusing on the crosshairs (not the target), and steadily pressing the trigger until the shot breaks. If you are trying to set up the perfect sight picture then make the rifle shoot, you will never have good groups. Have a friend load some dummy rounds into your magazines and observe how much the rifle moves when it goes "click."

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daveog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That trigger you have is very good. Perhaps your manipulation of it is where the problem lies. A good trigger doesn't make a rifle shoot better, it makes it easier to shoot better; you still have to do your part. You should be lining up your crosshairs on the target, focusing on the crosshairs (not the target), and steadily pressing the trigger until the shot breaks. If you are trying to set up the perfect sight picture then make the rifle shoot, you will never have good groups. Have a friend load some dummy rounds into your magazines and observe how much the rifle moves when it goes "click."</div></div>

You do indeed attempt to dress up the sight picture (hold) through adjustment of NPA. And, you keep the trigger depressed until recoil has subsided, not just until the trigger breaks. Shooting successive bullets into the target hole vacated by the first bullet requires perfection to a molecular level in all that's important to good shooting.

 

[223Rem]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

If those groups are at 200 yards, you are shooting a tad more than MOA which is not bad at all considering you are using a low magnification optic.

Maybe try using a heavier bullet such as a 69 gr SMK. You were not shooting bullets known for their accuracy.

 

[JeffinTX]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

+1 on what 223rem said. Can't expect match grade results when you're loading 55FMJBT of any brade with Lee dies. That's a 2-3 MOA combo, which should be mostly inside that 6" target at 200yds. The 1:9 barrel will do 69 but may or maynot do the 75/77 bullets. The sierra 60hp varmint bullet would be a big step up from the FMJ if you can't get the 69 SMK. Your setup should do 1-1.5 moa easy with the 69's and Varget/RL15/H4895, and probably much better...good luck

 

[M8541Reaper]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

Grouping sounds good for the average shooter, I personally do not like to shoot from the sitting (in fact I hate it)and prefer prone (as I'm sure we all do). Definitely try to rock some snap caps in with your magazine and have a friend load it. If you have someone with you have them observe you as you shoot, watching for trigger control, trigger reset/follow through, breathing, eye relief, your position, and any anticipation. eventually ur weapon will go click on the snap cap and you will more than likely anticipate the round and there is (one of) your problem(s). If you have no friends (with you at the range) then set up a camera and record yourself.

This may sound weird, but it works wonders. Once the dope behind the gun is set, then you should play around with the dope in the gun. Try different rounds as some of the members recommended as well as keep in mind about your cold bore shot and how it will be different than your follow on shots.

Everyday proof of AR accuracy with ARs that dont have a guaranteed MOA being combined with ammo that is DEFINITELY NOT of MOA quality reaching out to 500yds can be found in the Marine Corps. We qualify with iron sights on both the m4 and m16a4 weapon systems to 500 and hit all day long (some better than others) so this is where the dope behind the gun comes into play.

Good luck.

-Mitch
3/2 SSP

 

[sinister]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

What exactly do you want to do with and expect from the rifle? Match bullets will shrink your groups some.

It's more than good for shooting bad guys this big out to 500 yards:

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

I'm gonna take a different read on this.

If I read you right, you are shooting 2.75 in. groups at 200 yards. That's 1.375 MOA if my Sunday Morning Pre-Coffee Math is right.

With a 16 inch barrel, using 55 grn FMJ bullets, I think that is pretty good. I'm not sure about your scope (I shoot my ARs with irons).

Lets look at Sinster's targets. They, if I remember right, are 19 inches wide. In a vacuum, no wind, etc etc, that 1.375 group should be able to hit that 19X40 target past 1200 yards.

Of course that's in a perfect world. You're goal is to create that perfect world to the best of your abilities, Meaning, pay attention to the standard Marksmanship Fundamentals, get some good match bullets that mate up with the twist of your rifle, tweak them until they work.

Remember the X-10 ring on HP 600-1000 yard targets are about 2 MOA. If your gun can shoot 1.375 MOA, then its the shooter keeping you from Clean Targets.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

All,

The OP's question is based on a "just getting into it" perspective; and thus, it is difficult to address. I'd just simply tell him the bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed. From this basis of understanding, it will become clear, with any firearm, the only thing necessary for good hits is to come to an understanding for where the barrel is pointed. With an understanding for how to properly point the rifle with consistent sight alignment and pull the trigger without disturbing aim, the poster should be able to hit exactly where aimed when the rifle is supported properly and the effects of external ballistics have been correctly countered. With the OP's equipment zero dispersion is possible, although not probable unless picture and motor memory has been mastered to a molecular level.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

good shooting, try 69's over h4895. good medecine

 

[Sapper524]

Re: Accuracy potential from AR with 16in barrel

+1 on the Varmint upper. I have a 24 inch CAR-3 Colt w/ 5-20 glass on it and thats a MOA or better system with 77g SMK match bullets. My 16 inch 1/7 twist mid length floated AR with 1-4 glass is a solid 1-2 MOA system. Go to a standard non-floated 16 inch carbine that generally are 1/9 twist and with you bulk 55 grain ammo you get 2-4 MOA perfomrance.

A 1/8 or 1/7 twist upper in the 20 inch range with a medium to heavy barrel ... with some match ammo (69g SMK / 75g AMAX / 77g SMK) and you will see MOA perfomrance out to 600 yards.

with the rifle you are using, as perviously mentioned, get some 69g match ammo and some 10x magnification and you will prolly be able to shoot 1.5 inch groups if your doing your part.