Rifle Scopes Accuracy with quick detach rings

[Southwind]

Have a savage 12 .223 with a Bushnell Elite 10x Mil/Mil mounted in Weaver quick detach rings. The rings have never come loose, the POI has never shifted, but the gun does not group well at all.

I have used my pet load that has shot well out of every other .223 I own as well as other loads that I have tried out. This is the only scope I have had on the gun and the only set of rings. I had it in a B&C Duramaxx stock and when I could not get decent groups I swapped it out with a Choate stock. With as big of a channel as the Choate has, I know it is not a free-float issue, but the groups still have not tightened up. May be my other Savages have spoiled me, but this one consistently shoots 1-1.5" groups at 100yds.

Is there any chance that the rings have just enough play in them to skew the groups? My next thought would be to take a SS 16x I have sitting in the closet and mount it with Leupold rings and see if it will shoot any better.

Any advise please

 

[Chiller]

Have you confirmed the torque values on all your bolts (action, scope, etc)?

would go through step by step and try and solve it on a point by point basis. How do you mount your rings? If you take the time there are numerous threads that deal with this.

 

[ORD]

Have you confirmed the torque values on all your bolts (action, scope, etc)?

would go through step by step and try and solve it on a point by point basis. How do you mount your rings? If you take the time there are numerous threads that deal with this.

^^ What the man said!! ^^

Step by step...item by item...walk through the rifle from buttplate to muzzle and confirm that everything is properly torqued down, installed correctly, etc. Also, inspect the barrel for any issues that are obvious to the naked eye such as a damaged muzzle/crown, etc.

In addition, generally speaking, your average Weaver brand rings are crap in my past experiences with them. They aren't held to the best tolerances out there and can be the source of accuracy woes, etc. I wasn't even aware that Weaver made QD rings (unless you mean the garbage thumb-screw models...you know...the "Wally World" specials found in the big-box store "huntin'" sections).

With all of the above checked out/confirmed, etc., then I'd turn to ammo issues. Just because you have had excellent accuracy from the particular ammo in question in other rifles doesn't mean it will perform well in the rifle in question. i.e. - is the twist on your current savage's barrel fast enough to properly stabilize and accurately shoot the ammo in question? Have you tried other, well-known and proven ammo in the rifle from a commercial source such as FGMM, BH, Cor-bon, etc.?

Last but not least...bedding the rifle may prove useful if you eliminate all other possibilities, but it could just be as simple as a crap barrel. It happens sometimes and there's not a whole lot to be done about it aside from rebarreling or scraping the rifle for a new one if you don't want to deal with the expense/time/etc. of a rebarreling job.

 

[BigJimFish]

Is there any chance that the rings have just enough play in them to skew the groups?

This is at least possible with some products. I have noticed this to be the case when the locking levers are not adjusted tight enough on Larue mounts. I have not seen the Weaver design of which you speak however so I cannot help you assess the likelihood with this particular product.

 

[Eric B.]

Have you lapped the rings to make them aligned and concentric? This is STEP #1 in mounting a scope unless you have a ONE_PIECE mount from a top tier manufacturer like SPHUR. Ring lapping kits are not that expensive but the process takes some time.

-> Check the scope on another rifle. Maybe the adjustments are bad (doubtful on an Elite scope).

-> Use Loc-Tite on all scope mount screws and torque all screws to the same spec.

-> Check the action bedding and free float of the barrel

-> Check the muzzle for damage

-> Buy a Neil Jones rimfire rim thickness guage and sort ammo by thickness groups. Rimfire rim thickness determines headspace! Headspace derermines grouping within the same rim thickness.

-> Try different ammo brands and bullet weights.

-> Sell the damn rifle and get a Kimber.

 

[z71rat]

I can't stand quick-detach anything anymore. I have had various problems out of them, and I won't use them anymore. Get yourself some Seekins, torque to specs, and forget about it. You will be good to go then... just sayin.

DK

 

[gstprecision]

Allright, just throwing this out there.

You say you shoot your "Pet Load" and it does not shoot well. Did it ever shot well with that gun or you just reload to the same specs as before with other guns? If so, chances are your gun does not like that load.

My pet load for 223 shoots well in my Savages, but not in other brands. Savage seems to have longer throat and be more finnicky. Each guns like different loads and Cartridge OAL will be different from gun to gun to achieve accuracy.

I'd say, try some differents loads and then reassess if it is your scope and rings combo. You could mount a different scope see if the groupings are tighters, but I doubt it.

Just my $0.02
GST

 

[xring11]

For setting torque, I use Borka Tools. Although there are many other torque drivers/wrenches than can do the job, Borka works great for my clumsy fingers.

 

[scudzuki]

Have you lapped the rings to make them aligned and concentric? This is STEP #1 in mounting a scope unless you have a ONE_PIECE mount from a top tier manufacturer like SPHUR. Ring lapping kits are not that expensive but the process takes some time.

-> Check the scope on another rifle. Maybe the adjustments are bad (doubtful on an Elite scope).

-> Use Loc-Tite on all scope mount screws and torque all screws to the same spec.

-> Check the action bedding and free float of the barrel

-> Check the muzzle for damage

-> Buy a Neil Jones rimfire rim thickness guage and sort ammo by thickness groups. Rimfire rim thickness determines headspace! Headspace derermines grouping within the same rim thickness.

-> Try different ammo brands and bullet weights.

-> Sell the damn rifle and get a Kimber.

Ring lapping is unnecessary if your rail started out flat and was bedded properly and you use good rings.

Joe

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