Adding Weight to a Rifle

[AllenOne1]

When do you add weight to a rifle and why? I'm not as concerned about the rifle balance as I am reducing recoil and staying put on the rear bag. This isn't a high recoil rifle it's just a 6.5 Creedmoor. Total weight right now is around 15 lbs. Weight is not a big issue as most of my shooting is from a bench.

I'll be moving to a new setup using a Xylo chassis and need/want to put a bag rider on the rear. It's a custom build so I'm considering if I should build it out of aluminum which would add about 1/2 lb or go to steel which will add about 1 1/2 lbs. I can also add weight to the front channel to balance the rifle system and will be using a heavy contour barrel.

How much is adding weight going to reduce recoil and rifle movement in general? Getting to 15 lbs is easy but what would happen if the rifle was 20 lbs?

 

[spife7980]

My xylo loaded up with all the steel weights- internal, external, rear rider with external- and a 24” creed 1.25” straight weighed in at 26 I believe. It was front heavy and would roll forward off a bag. Wasn’t great for tank traps etc.

A varmint or mtu- I’ve got a 21” heavy mtu 223 now and it weighs 23.5 I think- balances perfectly on a tatertot on a tank trap point.

Adding 10lbs does a fair amount of reducing recoil no doubt but not as much as a brake or can. What it does better is immediately settling down in a bag on a prop much better.

 

[b6graham]

weight is as much about balance for me as it is recoil reduction. i want it to balance about 4-5" in front of the magwell...in the middle of a gamechanger with a very slight front end bias

for a prone/bench gun. add weight based on what you want to spend. a good brake/can is gonna do as much as 10 pounds

from a bench/prone the bag rider and bag/ears below it can have an impact too but more in how it tracks and settles

barrel weight is 'free' (as is speed with a longer barrel)

 

[AllenOne1]

My xylo loaded up with all the steel weights- internal, external, rear rider with external- and a 24” creed 1.25” straight weighed in at 26 I believe. It was front heavy and would roll forward off a bag. Wasn’t great for tank traps etc.

A varmint or mtu- I’ve got a 21” heavy mtu 223 now and it weighs 23.5 I think- balances perfectly on a tatertot on a tank trap point.

Adding 10lbs does a fair amount of reducing recoil no doubt but not as much as a brake or can. What it does better is immediately settling down in a bag on a prop much better.

So in your opinion adding the weight in the rear would be beneficial, then add weights in the front to balance but not over weight the front too much so that it becomes light in the rear.

 

[lash]

My xylo loaded up with all the steel weights- internal, external, rear rider with external- and a 24” creed 1.25” straight weighed in at 26 I believe. It was front heavy and would roll forward off a bag. Wasn’t great for tank traps etc.

A varmint or mtu- I’ve got a 21” heavy mtu 223 now and it weighs 23.5 I think- balances perfectly on a tatertot on a tank trap point.

Adding 10lbs does a fair amount of reducing recoil no doubt but not as much as a brake or can. What it does better is immediately settling down in a bag on a prop much better.

What he said.

The caliber isn’t the issue when it comes to comps. Many many competitors are at 22-28 pounds in 6mm cartridges. Balance is an important factor though.

 

[AllenOne1]

To add, I do run an Area 419 Hellfire brake or and Energetic Arms Vox suppressor at all times. Getting it to track correctly in the rear bag is a major concern. The front is sitting on an Atlas CAL.

 

[b6graham]

So in your opinion adding the weight in the rear would be beneficial, then add weights in the front to balance but not over weight the front too much so that it becomes light in the rear.

it's pretty common for chassis/stocks to be rear heavy from the start. i.e. i ran a 31" 1.25" straight that balanced well with a Manners PRS1 (on a bag/prop)

i like a little front heavy to mitigate muzzle rise...again off a bag/prop so bench/prone not as important

 

[b6graham]

To add, I do run an Area 419 Hellfire brake or and Energetic Arms Vox suppressor at all times. Getting it to track correctly in the rear bag is a major concern. The front is sitting on an Atlas CAL.

what rear bag?

 

[AllenOne1]

what rear bag?

I'm running a Dima. That is the reason for the "custom build" on the bag rider it needs to fit the groove in the bag I'm running.

 

[b6graham]

I'm running a Dima. That is the reason for the "custom build" on the bag rider it needs to fit the groove in the bag I'm running.

View attachment 8087007

Yup. The right shape bag rider should help a good bit

 

[spife7980]

So in your opinion adding the weight in the rear would be beneficial, then add weights in the front to balance but not over weight the front too much so that it becomes light in the rear.

I’d say it depends on exactly what length and contour you’re at. With it empty and a Palma contour you should be good. Start making it heavier up front and you’ll have to compensate a commiserate amount.

If you’re really all off the bench then make it all the way heavy. It’ll only hurt when you have to bend down and pick it up lol

 

[AllenOne1]

I’d say it depends on exactly what length and contour you’re at. With it empty and a Palma contour you should be good. Start making it heavier up front and you’ll have to compensate a commiserate amount.

Will most likely drop a 26" M24 @ 6.35# or an MTU @ 6.9# in it so it will start with a fair amount of weight up front. Not like the 1.25 truck axle though.

 

[CK1.0]

When I first started going into the deep end with rifles a few years back, I remember whining to a buddy about how much weights cost for just some dumb pieces of steel... now, I'll tell you they're worth every penny lol!

IMHO, for a target gun, the order of importance of stuff one can buy to get "instant skill" are: 1 - better trigger, 2 - weight, 3 - better glass. I actually think it's that impactful that it's higher up on my list than glass. It's all about making it so you can see every shot.

I'm currently shooting a 21.5lb 6GT (down from ~23lb), with the balance point 4-5" in front of the magwell (like has been mentioned, a little forward-biased, sits in the middle of a Gamechanger bag).

NOT 1-3" in front, 4-5". I see a lot of guys hold up their rifles right in front of the magwell and say something like "look, it's perfectly balanced"... when, well, it's not. Just in front of the magwell is NOT the same thing as what I'm talking about. The weight being distributed with a little forward-bias calms the whole recoil impulse down a bit (instead of the rifle "rocking" in the middle when it goes bang).

I'll break from the more diplomatic types and say that I think the weight matters just as much as balance. You can perfectly balance a 10lb 6.5CM 4-5" in front of the magwell, but one won't see nearly the amount of info/impacts/splash as someone with a 20+lb version of the same thing no matter how good one is at managing recoil. The difference between a 15lb rifle and a 20lb rifle is huge regarding recoil and seeing shots.

 

[giumau1]

NOT 1-3" in front, 4-5". I see a lot of guys hold up their rifles right in front of the magwell and say something like "look, it's perfectly balanced"... when, well, it's not. Just in front of the magwell is NOT the same thing as what I'm talking about. The weight being distributed with a little forward-bias calms the whole recoil impulse down a bit (instead of the rifle "rocking" in the middle when it goes bang).

What he said...because of age I am also planning to step down to 18-19#, not less, for the next build, but the balance point must not change. I am a big Manners lover but I have to admit that chassis with long mlok handguards are easier to balance right where you want them to be, again nothing short than 4-5" in front of the magwell. Usually MTU and Proof Competition are good profiles to start from, assuming a 26" OAL for the barrel.

 

[CK1.0]

What he said...because of age I am also planning to step down to 18-19#, not less, for the next build, but the balance point must not change. I am a big Manners lover but I have to admit that chassis with long mlok handguards are easier to balance right where you want them to be, again nothing short than 4-5" in front of the magwell. Usually MTU and Proof Competition are good profiles to start from, assuming a 26" OAL for the barrel.

Manners vs M-lok chassis thing... was just talking to a buddy about this at the range the other day... (full disclosure, I run a TCS).

I'm not saying one is better than another but when it comes to weights or adding weights...

What's funny with the Manners' vs M-lok chassis thing is (and I bet a lot of guys don't realize this): sure, they take a while to get if you order one (if you can't score one in the wild), but, for the money, a Manners TCS is actually a bargain as compared to most of the other high-end stock/chassis' out there. A TCS with all the weights is ~$1600, go ahead and price out an MDT or MPA including all the weights most guys would need to add to get their gun in the 20lb range, and it ends up a few hundred or more as compared to a TCS.

(You can tell I'm getting a little diluted or have been hanging around the Hide too long because I'm calling a fancy $1600 stock a "bargain")

Not trying to turn this into a Manners thread, but @giumau1, for your next build it might be worth making a call to Manners and see if they have any of the original steel ARCA rails offered for the TCS kicking around still? The steel rail is ~1lb heavier than the aluminum A419 rail most of them come with now, and it puts that extra pound right where we want/need it.

 

[giumau1]

@CK1.0, thanks for this…TBH with you I have three TCS in the safe and if the barrel contour I have chosen ( IBI Viking mtu fluted) for the next build matches the numbers I have put together to estimate the center of mass of the thing, it will be good to go with the TCS straight away with the alu rail and few brass, or the 360 precision one I also have around.
I will also give ARC XYLO a try. It is intriguing.
I fully second your thoughts about MLOK chassis, they are money pits like German cars are with optionals…you never know where you end up with those…

 

[rustyinbend]

I added the MPA weight kits (fore and aft) to both my MPA chassis rifles in 300-WM and 300-NM and it helped my recoil reduction a lot. That, and shooting suppressed, really tames recoil. Don't see the need for this in my 6.5 rifles ... recoil there is very manageable.

 

[spife7980]

I just buy them all on black friday or july 4th etc and my full weight loaded accs are about 1k all in.

 

[lash]

I just buy them all on black friday or july 4th etc and my full weight loaded accs are about 1k all in.

That’s because you plan and have patience.

 

[spife7980]

That’s because you plan and have patience.

No, actually the opposite. “Hey, that’s a fucking good price- buy!”

It’s how I end up with builds I don’t shoot

 

[acudaowner]

we took an mdt chassis from 25 lbs with a heavy barrel to up to 35 lbs with steel rods it's a monster to lug around but it shoots like a dream on a bench or ground . and are only using a 6.5 cm I made the really heavy set up for when I switch out the 6.5 cm and go to a 7mm saum . I am also trying to do the same thing with a 300 win mag the stock it's in now is light weight easy to carry I wanna put the action into a chassis and weight it all up lol . if your trying to save your shoulder and those shoulder savers are not enough for you , you could try adding a towel or pad on your shoulder for some extra support . I enjoy cold rolled flat steel drilled and cheap m lock finishings to attach it to the chassis for me it works better and the metal is not all that expensive .

 

[lash]

No, actually the opposite. “Hey, that’s a fucking good price- buy!”

It’s how I end up with builds I don’t shoot

Lol! Like me buying the CDG LA that I have no current plans for, you mean?

 

[AllenOne1]

we took an mdt chassis from 25 lbs with a heavy barrel to up to 35 lbs with steel rods it's a monster to lug around but it shoots like a dream on a bench or ground . and are only using a 6.5 cm I made the really heavy set up for when I switch out the 6.5 cm and go to a 7mm saum . I am also trying to do the same thing with a 300 win mag the stock it's in now is light weight easy to carry I wanna put the action into a chassis and weight it all up lol . if your trying to save your shoulder and those shoulder savers are not enough for you , you could try adding a towel or pad on your shoulder for some extra support . I enjoy cold rolled flat steel drilled and cheap m lock finishings to attach it to the chassis for me it works better and the metal is not all that expensive .

Interesting story for sure. In my case I'm not worried about my shoulder because the recoil is not that hard. I want to get the "jerk" out of the recoil so that the gun stays on target better. I still think it's my shooting form that is causing it but I can't seem to correct it and others are not seeing an issue with the way I'm shooting. I'm moving to a new chassis/gun system and just want to set it up to take advantage of anything that I can.

 

[AllenOne1]

I found a Gun Recoil Calculator online. I have no way to know if it is accurate but assuming it is close, adding weight makes a significant difference in recoil energy. Going from a 15 lbs to 20 lbs rifle changed the recoil energy from 7.5 ft lbs to 5.65 ft lbs. The other variable that makes a bigger difference than I would have thought was bullet weight.

robrobinette.com/Gun_Recoil_Calculator.html

 

[b6graham]

I found a Gun Recoil Calculator online. I have no way to know if it is accurate but assuming it is close, adding weight makes a significant difference in recoil energy. Going from a 15 lbs to 20 lbs rifle changed the recoil energy from 7.5 ft lbs to 5.65 ft lbs. The other variable that makes a bigger difference than I would have thought was bullet weight.

robrobinette.com/Gun_Recoil_Calculator.html

JBM - Calculations - Recoil

www.jbmballistics.com