Adjusting NPA

[Sterling Shooter]

Observing my students who are new to the concept of marksmanship, I frequently see them unconsciously steering the rifle to the target as they build their position. For these shooters the target has become a distraction to good shooting. Once the target has distracted them, that's to say, they realize a need to adjust NPA from a sight picture where the sight is somewhere on the target to a place somewhere off the target, the brain does not want to cooperate. After all, the brain sees being on target, not off it, as what needs to be done. Nevertheless, to find NPA the shooter will need to abandon his target/sight relationship by relaxing the position, and from there, adjust NPA to get back onto the target as desired.

All of this drama can be eliminated by simply refraining from looking at the target as the position is built. One method I use with students is to place multiple targets down range and only identify the target which is to be shot at after the shooter has appeared to have built a proper position.

At any rate, for those here who are somewhat confused about properly building a position, begin without consideration of the target. Do not look for it until the position is built and NPA established. Only then adjust NPA. Adjusting NPA from a place not on the target will assure there is no conflict with what your brain wants to do.

If you benefit from this advice or know of other techniques which get good results please post.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Adjusting NPA

For Day One, new students, I have them point the rifle to the target and then stand up behind the rifle to get in straight behind the rifle, and then we have them build the position with the rifle in place.

As they progress, we have them work the position from the standing and move directly into place by indexing the rifle on the target. Opening up the FOV helps,but they have to find the target, index on it and then build the position.

All this prevents muscling rather than have them muscle after the fact.

Different from being slung, and using irons, but this process brings them up to speed relatively quickly. Point the rifle to the target then the body to the rifle is the process.

 

[taliv]

Re: Adjusting NPA

i think students would benefit from a discussion of how close their NPA needs to be. given that HP has relatively generous time constraints and always uses the same 3 positions, expectations are quite a bit higher than field matches where you only have a few seconds and there are an infinite combination of jacked up positions.

personally, in HP XTC, i'm happy if my NPA keeps the black inside my wobble zone, and the rest is trigger control. maybe some of you expect your NPA to keep you in the x-ring.

in a field match, if i have a few seconds to shoot off some wacked out barricade i've never seen before, i'm not going to keep fiddling with NPA. If i'm within a couple mil, I'll muscle it over and shoot. but obviously my thoughts approaching it are focused on what i can do to get as close as possible. that's where knowing your stock and rear bag and bipod and cheek weld etc are key.

when i'm just putzing around shooting prone or sitting or off sticks for internet bragging groups, yeah, i keep adjusting NPA until the crosshairs are exactly where i want the impact. the results are predictably a lot better than my match shooting!

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Adjusting NPA

Using the Dot Drill, we put the students under time and it starts at 15 seconds, and goes down to 6 seconds. With the rifle in the student's hands from the standing it starts at 30 seconds and drops to 10 seconds.

You learn how to index on the target and established a rough NPA by using your body position. Being straight behind the rifle greatly reduces the time as you are 3/4 of the way there.

 

[taliv]

Re: Adjusting NPA

i ran that drill as a mini-stage at our last match. twice, one with 10 sec and one with 5. shooters could position gun any way they liked, but started standing with 1 round in hand (to avoid safety issues with shooters just touching their trigger without looking through the scope). target was a 10" steel plate at around 500 yards. it was a challenge and not worth much in terms of points. but just interesting as a benchmark to see how many shooters can get into position quickly.

i don't have the scoresheets handy but my guess would be 50% got hits in 10 sec and less than 10% got hits in 5 sec. i would guess most of the people who didn't get hits never got a round off, as opposed to firing and actually missing.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Adjusting NPA

I am used to 6o second rapid fire standing to sitting at 200 yards. I know, with practice, NPA and speed are both possible; but I noticed, while coaching new shooters, trying this out for the first time at SAFS, whether they looked at the target or not, as they went into position, it was difficult for most to get off all their rounds. This did not bother me as much as it bothered them. I told them it is better to have a few saved rounds than to just beat the clock from a position which has not been correctly built. I suggested that with some practice slow can be made fast and fast can be made smooth. My point is NPA is not dependent on any more time than it takes to build a position poorly and aim. Of course when the position is not built properly it will certainly consume time to hold where desired from a wobbling sight picture.

I like the technique LL teaches for the sort of shooting he does as it seems with it there's no compromise needed. I also get the sense that LL has broken new ground in teaching folks how to properly shoot with a bipod support. It seems there are some aspects to shooting with that sort of support which contrast more than they compare to support from bone alone or from bone with sling.

 

[jhr1986]

Re: Adjusting NPA

Thanks for posting this, I am interested in hearing more of your thoughts/techniques on establishing NPA as well as those from the other experienced shooters around here. As you know from the reports on my first few range trips this is something I'm struggling with.

When I read what LL has to say, it seems very simple to establish a NPA when shooting from the prone. I haven't tried this at my range but I will ask next time I go whether prone shooting is allowed or not. My guess is 'no' as the range is set up with just benches and there isn't much room for it, but there are also no signs saying that it is prohibited, nor is it on their list of range rules. I always get there as soon as they open and go during the week so perhaps they will allow it considering I am usually the only one there for the first hour or so.

It still seems to be a problem for me though when sitting on the bench. I hate to blame the equipment but I am just not seeing how to adjust properly on the benches that I am using. If the forend of the rifle is at the front of the bench on bags and pointed straight to the target, and in a position where I can get straight behind the rifle, then the butt is hanging out over empty space (no bench below it) and I can't get either a rest or my supporting hand under it (well I could get my support hand under it, but the elbow of that arm would not be on the bench). When both the forend and butt are over the bench, my body is in a convoluted position where my torso is shifted towards the rifle (not straight over my waist) and my shoulders are not perpendicular to the bore of the rifle. Obviously I'm doing something wrong but I'm not sure what it is that I'm not seeing.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Adjusting NPA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> how close their NPA needs to be......if i have a few seconds to shoot off some wacked out barricade i've never seen before, i'm not going to keep fiddling with NPA. If i'm within a couple mil, I'll muscle it over and shoot</div></div>

There is NO LAW that says obtaining a natural point of aim is slow. Muscling on the other hand ruins follow through.

Like anything else, NPA with speed comes with practice. Ask those winning teams shooting the Rattle Battle, (Infantry Trophy Match) if they obtaine a NPA or muscle the rifle.

Better yet, give ISU Rapid Fire Pistol a shot, you ain't gonna place in IRF muscling the pistol and you have to have a NPA.

You have 7 seconds to engage 5 targets, then 5 for five targets, then 3 seconds.

You wont see those guys "muscling the pistol, Pistol being more critical the rifle but FUNDAMENTALS ARE FUNDAMENTALS. There is no short cut.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Upon assuming ANY POSITION there is some point to which the rifle points naturally and without effort. If this point is not the center of the target, the whole body must be shifted so as to bring the target into proper alignment. Otherwise the firer will be firing under strain because he will be pulling the rifle on target by muscular effort for each shot" T.R. 150-5 A.J. Macnab, Colornl U.S. Infantry</div></div>

In rapid fire, setting or prone you start from standing and drop into postion. You don't have a lot of time to "shift" but with a bit of practice you can have your NPA as soon as you drop in position.

Like I said, there is no law that says quickly obtaining a NPA can't be done, But, muscling the rifle or pistol is against the very fundamentals of marksmanship.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Adjusting NPA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhr1986</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for posting this, I am interested in hearing more of your thoughts/techniques on establishing NPA as well as those from the other experienced shooters around here. As you know from the reports on my first few range trips this is something I'm struggling with.

When I read what LL has to say, it seems very simple to establish a NPA when shooting from the prone. I haven't tried this at my range but I will ask next time I go whether prone shooting is allowed or not. My guess is 'no' as the range is set up with just benches and there isn't much room for it, but there are also no signs saying that it is prohibited, nor is it on their list of range rules. I always get there as soon as they open and go during the week so perhaps they will allow it considering I am usually the only one there for the first hour or so.

It still seems to be a problem for me though when sitting on the bench. I hate to blame the equipment but I am just not seeing how to adjust properly on the benches that I am using. If the forend of the rifle is at the front of the bench on bags and pointed straight to the target, and in a position where I can get straight behind the rifle, then the butt is hanging out over empty space (no bench below it) and I can't get either a rest or my supporting hand under it (well I could get my support hand under it, but the elbow of that arm would not be on the bench). When both the forend and butt are over the bench, my body is in a convoluted position where my torso is shifted towards the rifle (not straight over my waist) and my shoulders are not perpendicular to the bore of the rifle. Obviously I'm doing something wrong but I'm not sure what it is that I'm not seeing.</div></div>

You need your non firing hand on the forend. Place it there first after finding a spot on the bench for the elbow of the non firing arm. Use the firing hand to grasp the butt of the stock and bring it up to the head, enough to be able to align sight with eyeball. Next, push butt of stock into pocket formed in the shoulder. Place firing hand on grip and let elbow of firing arm relax. Then, set firing elbow on bench. This bone alone position can be supplemented with a sandbag under non firing hand. Note that the non firing arm should be almost directly under the rifle. Relax this position and then adjust NPA.

 

[taliv]

Re: Adjusting NPA

Kraig my point was simply that there are only 3 positions in hp and they are the same at every hp match no matter where you go so yes you can practice three positions to perfection so that time isn't a factor.

Not so much with field matches. How would you practice getting NPA when shooting out of a helicopter? If you have 60 sec to shoot ten rounds at a mover how do you keep NPA? Generally every match has at least a couple shooting positions and barricades I've never seen before

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Adjusting NPA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have 60 sec to shoot ten rounds at a mover [bold]how do you keep NPA</div></div> Generally every match has at least a couple shooting positions and barricades I've never seen before[/quote]

Simpe, its called practice. You can do it out of a helechopter, I've done it with rifle and pistol, you can do in the field,...I meand quickly. I've done it IN THE FIELD during a live fire pop-up - shoot back targets.

What you don't do in go to a basic marksmanship forum where new shooters hang out and indicate that NPA is not important.

Like the rest of the fundamentals of marksmanship, NPA comes with practice as does trigger controll, sight alignment, followthrough, etc etc.

Like the rest of your fundamentals, NPA can be obtained from any postition, any time, and quite quickly.

I was a RO at the last Sniper Cup and got a chance to watch most (I think all) the shooters as they came by my point. Most laid down to shoot, wiggled a tad to get their NPA, and did well. Some you could see were muscling and they didn't.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Adjusting NPA

Kraig summed it up. I can only add if you do not adjust NPA upon zeroing the rifle you will not have a repeatable zero and if you do adjust NPA to get a zero and then abandon it you will not hit exactly where aimed.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Adjusting NPA

Just as a side note, yesterday I shot a revolver in a falling plate match.

The first couple go arounds I tried to see if I "shifted" between targets or muscled by swinging my arms. After I got on the front sight I forgot all about thinking about my position so I asked a couple of better shooters to watch me to see if I shifted or not.

All three pointed out they detected me shifting with each plate.

It can be done and done quickly.

My disadvantage in pistol shooting is I refuse to give up my revolvers and was at a disavantage because I had to reload to get all the plates and stop plate, making it hard to compete with multi capacity auto shooter.

But in my old age, I shoot for fun, agaisnt my self so I don't really care.

The point I'm trying to make, once you develope the muscle memory and memory management, shifting to get a NPA is no disvantage and doesn't take all day.

 

[taliv]

Re: Adjusting NPA

so, i didn't say it wasn't important. i'm saying there's a difference in fine tuning and coarse tuning of NPA and if your wobble zone is bigger than your target, then what are you doing? lining up the center of the wobble zone on the target? is that really the right thing to do? what if it's a little off? should you spend more time moving your whole body?


and i would still like to hear you two address exactly how you get your NPA shooting moving targets

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Adjusting NPA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taliv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so, i didn't say it wasn't important. i'm saying there's a difference in fine tuning and coarse tuning of NPA and if your wobble zone is bigger than your target, then what are you doing? lining up the center of the wobble zone on the target? is that really the right thing to do? what if it's a little off? should you spend more time moving your whole body?


and i would still like to hear you two address exactly how you get your NPA shooting moving targets</div></div>

NPA need not be abandoned for a moving target. In prone a simple shift of the shooter's weight at the shooters belt buckle will retain NPA. Of course, ambush shooting does not require any specail consideration for NPA. Kraig can elaborate.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Adjusting NPA

You can use your NPA eighter in ambush or follow (brush)though method of shooting moving targets.

I learned that before I ever started shooting competition rifles and pistols.

I was shooting skeet back then. I was taught skeet by the coach of the U of Ga Skeet team in the early 70s. He was big on using NPA vs. muscling the gun with your arms.

Because of my skeet shooting experience I excelled at moving targets in sniper school.

If you have problems with shooting movers or using the NPA while shooting movers get with a good skeet shooter. They'll get you lined up.

The bigest problem in any sport is Mental Management, critical in Marksmanship, if you don't think you can do it, or don't think it can be done, You wont. Those who suceed are the one's that don't believe in the word "CAN'T", instead, they understand that anything is possible.

This goes to all the fundamentals of marksmanship.