Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

texasredneck

texasredneck

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Jan 19, 2009
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Houston, Texas
#1
With a full tactical build underway, I am turning my attention to my next build and wanted advice from the smartest group of people on the planet. I think I want a lightweight (very lightweight) rifle for hunting that is not like humping a 14 lb brick all day in 100+ degree heat. I enjoy hunting on foot with a pack. Below are my requirements in hopes that y'all can give me some good advice on what components would work best.

Want to take any NA big game (elf (edited-or Elk !!), bear, moose, nigai, etc)
Flat shooter to 600+ yds (e.g. 300 win mag or WSM, but am open to ideas)
Like to be 1/2 MOA shooter
Is a shorter barrel (than the 26 on my tactical 300WM)a good way to get there?
Don't need detatchable mag
want a strong but lightweight stock- synthetic
Need action advice - alumninum an option? Can Ti be trued effectively? Does dissimilar metal make any difference on cold bore shots? e.g. aluminum or Ti with steel or stainless barrel?
Need optics advice too - at least 12X

Thanks for the help in spending my money....all ideas are welcome.
 
#2
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

Ideally, if you could convince Glenn Harrison at Phoenix Machine to make you a titanium receiver, you could add pieces/parts to come up with a really nice light rifle. That failing, sure - start with a Ti Rem 700 and ditch everything but the action. Add an ABS barrel and a McMillan Edge stock and there you are. Caliber? For what you have stated, Pete Lincoln's 9.3 RSM (.300 WSM necked to .366) would be a pretty good do-all caliber.

You could take a basic Remington action with a boltface appropriate for your chambering of choice, add a lightweight barrel from a premium manufacturer (say a Kreiger #1 or #2 or see if Kampfeld can flute a #3), a Manners ultra light stock, blind magazine, alloy bases and rings, etc., etc.

OR..., just call Mel Forbes and order an Ultra Light Arms rifle: http://www.newultralight.com/HTML/custom-rifles.html

As nice as it is to shoot a really well constructed precision rifle, it is a cast iron bitch to tote the thing afield.

Keep us posted.
 
#3
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

I'd guess most of the custom builders can get that done easily enough on a 700 action. 300 is a good choice, but I wouldn't use it on bear or moose myself but that's me and I'm sure many do. I'm sure GAP and others have lightweight builds in the 7lb range and can do whatever you need.

I think I've read (others I'm sure can add more experience here) that you can go down to about 22" on a 300 and not loose much if any velocity.

How light is light? if you want to be guaranteed it's a 1/2 moa shooter any factory offering in light weight is out. Some of the tikka's will do it but not every one for sure. The FN XP might be another choice but again I don't think you can be sure it will be 1/2 moa or better.

Mcmillan has some ultralight stocks, I believe manners does as well those would be ideal candidates. Any of the good barrel companies should be fine. I'd imagine though that with ultra light barrel profiles you are going to get more cold bore variation and shift as it heats up fast. Thankfully for a hunting gun you only really need the first 2-3 to group well at most. Flutted barrel and bolt will save a little weight, not much on the thin profile barrels, the speedlock firing pin/shroud setup will probalby save a little weight and increase lock time.

As for scope mounts if you want light look into a one piece setup either like the nightforce alloy direct mount or even the talley one piece mounts are light and no one seems to have problems with them.

Scopes, leupold makes a good light scope, when weight is not a concern there are much better options but a scope like the 4.5-14x40 is a good light choice (13oz). Personally I love the 2.5-8x36 (11oz) scope for a lightweight build, and have never had an issue making shots to 400+ with it so I feel no need for higher mag. Zeiss conquest 4.5-14x44 is nice as well, better optically but it's 18oz so a pretty good weight penalty for a weight conscious build - but if there is one place not to skimp too much it's the optics. Even the nikon monarch is a good option the 4-16x42 is a nice scope for the $ but it's also 19oz. that's a extra half pound over a 2.5-8x. You can add 3-4oz to any of those to step up to 50mm along with extra weight from higher mount.
 
#5
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

A good friend of mine recently had a 270WSM built by Roedale Precision in Germany. Action had a fluted bolt and a fluted magnum sporter Lothar Walther 22" barrel. Although Pete had bedded the rifle perfectly and it also shot very well, my friend didn't get along with the stock and Pete took it back. I then layed up a stock for him with a high carbon content to get the weight down as far as possible. We even blended a light weight or low density carbon fiber bedding compound. The stock weighed 812 grams bedded, painted, studs and recoil pad mounted. This shaved 500grams off the first stock. That's the weight of a scope.
We never weighed it in the end but it is very handy and shoots under 1/2". My choice would possibly be a 4.5-14x50 conquest and get the action lightened by Pete.
Carbon bedding.
DSCN2025.jpg

DSCN2029.jpg

Sika: 303m
DSCN2235.jpg


edi
 
#7
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

As much as I love a custom rifle a Kimber Montana for under a grand is very doable in a 300 wsm or others. Use the left over for optics and you have a winner. JMHO
 
#8
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

One has to do your own research, but I've personally owned and read about too many montana's that didn't shoot for shit, and kimber's customer service is a joke.
 
#9
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

On the factory side of things, the Nosler Model 48 might be worth a look - 6 1/4 lbs (rifle only), chambered in 300wsm, 3/4 MOA guarantee - which would do fine for all but big brown bear. That said, the Nosler's pricing is well into custom territory at $2600 or so.

I ended up doing a Stiller Tac30/Rock 5.5 contour barrel - fluted & a HTG Edge stock (built by RD) - comes in at 10 lbs, all up. A couple pounds less would have been great, but that would have meant moving to a sporter contour & a titanium action - something I didn't want to do.
 
#10
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

Thanks! Actually, I did just after I posted this here. I have a PM in to try to close the deal.....7lb plus scope is doable, and it would be in my safe much quicker than waiting on a custom build from scratch. We shall see if the deal gets done, if not, NULA looks like a possibility too. Thanks for all the ideas fellas, keep 'em comin'.
 
#12
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

My Kimber in .270 wsm shot great, as well as my friends 4 that shoot very well. I have heard all the talk and have yet to see someone have a Kimber Montana that didn't shoot. If you can prove it to me I would love to see it.

As far a the original question goes if you can close the deal on that lightweight in the classifieds you should be well on your way to having a light killing machine.
 
#13
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

I would look at something in the .300/.338 caliber with a scout scope. Of course range will drop down closer to 400M, but the trade off is the ability to take any American Game. I am basing this off the fact that the late Colonel Cooper made many big game shots with such a rifle. 7# overall, and an easy carry with a good sling. One day I will have a scout rifle just because I want one. Don't really NEED one, just want it. Still thinking on caliber, etc, but I know it will be based on a good action like Remington or something else from one of the Hide builders
 
#14
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

i would either do one of these 2 blueprints myself.

rem 700 mcmillan classic with a #3 at 22-24in top it off with a 3.5-10 leupld and your looking at 7.5 to 8lbs

if you want to go lighter, get a mcm edge stock with a flyweight barrel

i see no need in a titanium action, just too much money for a few oz.

ive had serveal

below is a rem 7-08ti, a real light weight rifle, for carrying around alot this is a great gun, mine shot great.

ti1.jpg



this is my peronal favorite hunting rifle, weighs in a tick over 8lbs, i have no issues taking a 600yd shot with this gun.
its a
7wsmm.jpg
#4 in a mcm classic

though the mcm classic is heavier than the ti i shoot it alot better and have more confidence in that rifle, i will carry the extra 1.5lbs

 
#16
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

Obviously guys are getting good ones, and I think kimber took a lot of heat on them when they first started coming out and have addressed some of the issues.
 
#18
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I'm back in ND this summer I'll be happy to make it down to FM if it's not under water to show ya a 270WSM that won't shot 2" 5 shot groups on it's best day and that's after kimber "fixed" it. Obviously guys are getting good ones, and I think kimber took a lot of heat on them when they first started coming out and have addressed some of the issues. You see a lot of kimber montana's floating in used racks and there's a reason.

Them not getting it right the first time I could live with, mistakes happen. Their customer "service" attitude is what has completely turned me off of them. I had a 1911 alloy that had feed ramp denting from the HP edge hitting it, kimber flat out told me they didn't feel damage to the FEED RAMP would effect reliability and function.....right. On the rifle they recrowned it, clamped it in a machine rest and at 50 yards fired 4 shots of winchester supreme. Three were within about .7-8" C-C and the fourth was out an INCH from that group and was circled and marked "Flyer". The rifle was returned with that target and a letter saying it met their standards and was fine.

I don't know about you but if a customer sent me a rifle for accuracy issues and I fire four shots with the action out of the stock and clamped in a machine rest at 50 yards and one shot is 1" out....I'm sure not going to return it to the customer telling them it's fine. Call up Hill Country Rifles, they won't even touch a kimber rifle anymore for their accurizing work they've had so many headaches trying to get them to shoot.

I'm glad guys are getting good ones, and I've seen some that shoot 1 moa or so, some shoot acceptable. But on the fip side I've never seen a montana shoot 1/2 5 shot groups as the poster requested.</div></div>

Thanks for the info, I sold mine to fund other projects. I have heard bad things about Kimber customer service as well.
 
#19
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

I purchased a 8400 Montana 300WSM when they were first released. A friend has a 84m in 7-08 and it is a very nice 1 MOA gun. I could not get it to shoot under 2.5" I tied almost every factory load and reloads. The Scheels store was great and exchanged it, but the second was no better. I understand that the new 8400 shot better.
My current lite gun is a 700 MTN Guide, this was a made for Cabelas rifle. It is a 308 win mtn rifle with the 700 Ti stock on it. I had it rebarreled with a 22" #2 Pac Nor. with a 3.5-10 VariXIII it is right at 7 lbs. It is an awsome carry gun. This just as easily could have ben in 300 WSM/325 WSM, and would fill your bill nicely. Good luck
 
#20
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

Rem Model Seven SS in 7MM SAUM, with Leupy 6x36.

seven_swirly.jpg


McMillan Classic, black/white swirly. Scope's on its way to Leupold tomorrow for M1's. And yes, it now has bottom metal on it unlike in the pic.
wink.gif


I have a photo of the typical 100-yard group from the rifle, but it doesn't fit the new rules so I'll keep it out.

Needless to say it'll hit whatever I'm pointing it at out to 600 yards, probably further, but I don't feel like I'm hunting at that point.
wink.gif
No issues with others doing it, just not my personal cup o' tea. At least not with a 7-pounder.

There's ways on this rifle to easily bring it down under 7 pounds (edge stock, scallop receiver, flute bolt, etc); I love it just the way it is though.



If you'd rather have a factory rig that'll shoot bugholes and is feather-light, the Kimber Montana might be perfect for you. 270WSM/300WSM (and they used to offer 7WSM so you might find one on the pre-owned circuit), and factory rated at 5 lbs 12-13 oz. Stainless and Kevlar.

Add a Leupy 6x42 in Talleys and you're looking at around 6.25-ish pounds.
 
#22
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

Thanks man. Was hoping to spill blood with it last season, but shift work and gearing up for a little trip here in a couple weeks kept me too dang busy.

Got a bud in Texas with about 1k acres that has a hog problem. I'm flying down after I get done doing what I gotta go do.
wink.gif
 
#23
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

Also you may want to look up Ultra Light Arms. They are located in Nothern WV. The guy does great work, has several action sizes he builds. He also uses light weight carbon stocks tha weigh less than 1.5 pounds. Total weight for a 250 Savage is 5.5-6 lbs loaded with a scope. They shoot good too. Brock
 
#24
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

A bone stock Tikka in .300win mag will come darn close on your accuracy specs, ditch their mounts and drop in a DNZ one piece mount.

If you want to go a custom build I would go with a Rem 700 pattern action with a #2 contour or #3 fluted at about 24" in .300WSM. Add a Wildcat Composite stock, talley lightweights and a Leup 6x with turrets and your good to go at about 7 pounds.

If you want to go with a flyweight like a NULA I recommend you find one to play with first, some love the idea of light weight but just dont like it for field shooting. I have found anything under 6lbs to be more of a pain than what its worth.

For what its worth my two hunting rifles are a Tikka T3 .270 and a Remington 7 in .308 wearing the wildcat stock and a Pacnor tube.
 
#25
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EOS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://bijoucreek.com/

If the 300WSM wont work for you the 458 Lott should get the job done pretty quick. </div></div>

458 Lott at 5.5 lbs, that is a "man up" machine right there!
 
#27
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

I agree with Norcal Phoenix and am basically say the same thing. Look on 24hourcampfire forum as a lot of guys there get crazy with the lightest weight rifles possible.


NULA will get you there. The action is sized and trimmed for the cartridge to be used but I don't know if he does WSM anymore. They weigh 20 or 24 ounces depending on size you want. A regular 700 or clone goes 34 oz.

You dont' need a Ti action as it will only save 4 to 6 ounces. A regular 700 action can be trimmed to lose close to that without affecting the safety. The stock and barrel is where your going to lose real weight.

Keep in mind that the lighter your gun gets the more tempermental it will be to shoot.

McMillan Edge stock, ADL with aluminum trigger guard, Talley one piece rings, Leupold 6x42 scope, and a 1 countour barrel gets you around 6lbs or less.
 
#29
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

For the stock you should check this out;

http://www.wilddog.com.au/content/Hunting-Rifle-Stocks.asp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild Dog Customs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Why does Wild Dog extensively use carbon fibre?</span>
Because it is the best material available, being light, massively strong, stiff, tough and impervious. Apart from being virtually indestructible, our rigid, inflexible carbon fibre stocks will give you the best possible platform for accurate shooting.</div></div>

Personally I'm in crossroads in choosing between an AICS Stage 1.5 or a Wild Dog Tactical. But leaning towards Wild Dog...

Sorry but I'm not sure if they make Long Action stocks.

Cheers,
TheLongShot
 
#30
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

if you take a look at this link:
IWA

you will see a picture of Edi and his son, with the lad holding a 2.9kg tactical configuration light weight rifle. as it is with pic rail and magazine the rifle comes in at 2.9kg.
We where telling folks at the IWA we filled the barrel with helium and had magnets in the roof of the stand..!! ha ha,, no one believed us anyhow..

The rilfle in question is a .260Rem, its based on a lightened Howa 1500 short action, has a PSE stock.
the realy interesting part is the experimental Lothar Walther barrel. Its a match barrel that is turned down to a very light sporter profile, it has a thread where the swapmed part of the barrel would nomaly be ( forard of the chamber and throat area) and there is an alloy sleeve threaded and glued onto the barrel.
I have had 2 of these barrels in testing for over 12 months now, and i cannot honestly tell the difference in accuracy from an all steel barrel, of course i'm sensible with my shot strings and have not dome more than 20rds in rapid succession, but then i dont do any different with the all steel ones either.
Frank Walther assures me that they can produce these barrels in just about any bore size and infact have done some in .50BMG.
They are a very interesting concept and from my testing and evaluation, they work. you might want to contact the US LW rep.
regards Pete
 
#31
Re: Advice for lightweight rifle build needed

TRN,
just saw you are from Houston,
I was in Spring over Christmas and we went for a shot at Carter's Country in Treaschwig Rd Spring. Next to Carters there was a custom rifle builder G & B or something like that, anyway they prided themselves with ultra light rifles. Ever heard of them?

By the way, that rifle Pete mentioned was stunning. Looks 7kg and weighs under 3.

edi
 
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