Advice on a custom 16" AR 10 barrel

[byronrc15]

Hello all,
I'm planning on putting together a somewhat lightweight AR-10 build. I've settled on a 16" barrel length, as I'll never take this thing past 800 yards (probably never past 400, unless I get access to a better range) and I always run a can. I am an accuracy snob, so I want something that will print 5 shot sub moa groups (preferably even tighter), and will hold up under longer strings of fire. But I would also like to be able to hunt with this rifle, so if I'd rather not go with a super thick profile. Id like to keep the overall weight under 8.5 lbs.
Im torn between ordering a custom krieger or bartlein barrel, as Ive heard these are about as accurate as it gets, or going with a carbon fiber offering from proof research. Any tips on which direction I should go? If i do go the krieger or bartlein route, which company should I go with to cut and rifle the blank, and which profile would you recommend for my application? Thanks in advance for any tips you can offer.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Just buy a proof cf barrel. They come chambered and ready to roll, will outshoot you most likely and will maintain accuracy when warm. It's also lightweight.

 

[byronrc15]

Just buy a proof cf barrel. They come chambered and ready to roll, will outshoot you most likely and will maintain accuracy when warm. It's also lightweight.

Appreciate the tip. Do they offer headspaced bolts, or is there a bolt that members can recommend that matches their chamber?

 

[StaveyIL]

If accuracy is your goal go with a stainless Krieger or Bartlein chambered by CLE or Craddock. There’s a reason you don’t see carbon fiber barrels on Benchrest rigs. Unless shedding weight for hunting rifle that won’t see long strings of fire . There is no benefit to carbon fibre. If you go proof . I would go stainless.

 

[simonp]

If accuracy is your goal go with a stainless Krieger or Bartlein chambered by CLE or Craddock. There’s a reason you don’t see carbon fiber barrels on Benchrest rigs. Unless shedding weight for hunting rifle that won’t see long strings of fire . There is no benefit to carbon fibre. If you go proof . I would go stainless. View attachment 8088705

This^^^ I would NOT go with proof.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

You think he's looking for benchrest accuracy in a 16" ar10? Have you ever carried one hunting? They are heavy. He's not going to shoot F class, he's looking for a 16" barrel he can pack around and shoot accurately to 800y and have a barrel that maintains acceptable accuracy under strings of fire. Proof cf is the easiest way to achieve that.

 

[StaveyIL]

He said he’s an accuracy snob and mentions holding up under long strings of fire. Fact is that rules out carbon fiber. As I posted above even proof shooters shoot stainless. All of them. Besides 16” isn’t going to be very heavy even in stainless.

 

[byronrc15]

Thanks for all the responses. I am an accuract snob, but to me that means 5 shot 3/4 MOA groups, and maybe 1.5 MOA 10 shot groups. If proof can do that, awesome.
However, what's more important to me is accuracy with a variety of bullet weights. Unfortunately I do not reload, as I dont have the space. Consequently, I buy a lot of ammo, and I typically go with whatever is on sale. I'd like a gun that can be relatively accurate (around 1 MOA for 5 shots) with heavier and lighter offerings. I know that most of this depends on selecting the correct twist rate, but there is more to it than that. I have a JP supermatch 6.5 grendel barrel, for example, that will print sub MOA with steel cased wolf ammunition. If Proof barrels can do the same thing, then maybe thats the way to go. Thanks again for all the responses.

 

[Jsp556]

Make sure you get a rifle length gassed barrel if you’re going to supress it. You’ll be glad you did.

 

[mikeshaw2]

you're going to get as many opinions as there are barrels. The nice news is that you can try one and if you don't like it, it's not like you're out thousands of $$. Someone else would probably like to try something

M

 

[byronrc15]

Make sure you get a rifle length gassed barrel if you’re going to supress it. You’ll be glad you did.

To reduce gas blowback, or to improve reliability? Ive run carbine and pistol length systems with cans, and didnt have problems. But I use gas buster charging handles and adjustable gas blocks, so perhaps that helps. Was planning on going rifle length though, to smooth out the recoil impulse. Thanks for the tip.

 

[byronrc15]

you're going to get as many opinions as there are barrels. The nice news is that you can try one and if you don't like it, it's not like you're out thousands of $$. Someone else would probably like to try something

M

True, but the barrels im looking at will run about 1K with a matching bolt.
I think I've settled on a 16" 400MODBB Bartlein barrel IN 6.5 Creedmoor from Craddock Precision. The only remaining question is which profile - should I go with the .750" light contour, or the .875" medium/heavy? Does anyone know the weight difference between the two? I regularly shoot longer strings, but it's not like I'm doing mag dumps, so would the heavier profile really offer any advantages for me?

 

[Gustav7]

To reduce gas blowback, or to improve reliability? Ive run carbine and pistol length systems with cans, and didnt have problems. But I use gas buster charging handles and adjustable gas blocks, so perhaps that helps. Was planning on going rifle length though, to smooth out the recoil impulse. Thanks for the tip.

Are you referencing AR15 carbine/pistol length systems or AR10? IF you're referencing AR15, then that cannot be compared in any way. AR10's are whole different game and require a completely different thought process when selecting components and tuning.

Rifle length is recommended, or intermediate at the least.

 

[byronrc15]

Are you referencing AR15 carbine/pistol length systems or AR10? IF you're referencing AR15, then that cannot be compared in any way. AR10's are whole different game and require a completely different thought process when selecting components and tuning.

Rifle length is recommended, or intermediate at the least.

Yes, I was. Totally new to AR 10's. I figured theyd be a lot gassier than their smaller counterparts, but that the gas buster handles would still do the trick. Sounds like I was wrong. In any case, I will be going with a rifle length gas system on this build.

 

[KYAggie]

Who said AR10’s were heavy? That’s 7.68# with a not so light SWFA 1-6 Super Sniper scope. I did eventually take the titanium muzzle break off and put a Area419 Hellfire on it so I could get repeatable accuracy with my suppressor; which added a little weight. The barrel on this one is a Faxon Gunner 16”. As far as accuracy goes, the picture below is of a group at 100 yards with Federal 168 GMM. I shot one round with the Hellfire brake, then removed it, put my suppressor on, clicked up 1.3 MRAD, shot another round, took the suppressor off, adjusted the scope down 1.3 MRAD, put the break back on, shot another round…….got board after switching back and forth for 7 shots and decided this level of repeatable precision was good enough for me.

Im not sure about weight, but would expect a Proof, Kreiger, or Bartlein barrel to shoot even better.

 

[byronrc15]

View attachment 8089102

Who said AR10’s were heavy? That’s 7.68# with a not so light SWFA 1-6 Super Sniper scope. I did eventually take the titanium muzzle break off and put a Area419 Hellfire on it so I could get repeatable accuracy with my suppressor; which added a little weight. The barrel on this one is a Faxon Gunner 16”. As far as accuracy goes, the picture below is of a group at 100 yards with Federal 168 GMM. I shot one round with the Hellfire brake, then removed it, put my suppressor on, clicked up 1.3 MRAD, shot another round, took the suppressor off, adjusted the scope down 1.3 MRAD, put the break back on, shot another round…….got board after switching back and forth for 7 shots and decided this level of repeatable precision was good enough for me.

View attachment 8089105



Im not sure about weight, but would expect a Proof, Kreiger, or Bartlein barrel to shoot even better.

Great group. The reason Im planning on going with a kreiger or bartlein is quality control. Looks like youve gotten a great barrel from faxon. But not all faxon barrels are going to shoot that well. Im hoping that a craddock bartlein offering is guaranteed sub moa 5 shot groups, or better.

 

[KYAggie]

Looks like youve gotten a great barrel from faxon.

I agree, I did for sure. I have three different Faxon barrels and they all shoot well, but I’ve read other’s experiences do not mirror mine. Also, I would never expect a Faxon to compete with the ones you have listed, they are just not built to the same tolerances which is reflected in the price. I also have a lightweight 16” 5.56 and a 20” 6.5 CM fluted match; all my Faxons group 1 moa or better with quality ammo. I consider myself fortunate from the complaining I’ve seen online.

 

[Gustav7]

Yes, I was. Totally new to AR 10's. I figured theyd be a lot gassier than their smaller counterparts, but that the gas buster handles would still do the trick. Sounds like I was wrong. In any case, I will be going with a rifle length gas system on this build.

Well lets start with a summary of the basics:
1.) Theres no such thing as "mil-spec" AR10's. There are 2-3 main formats, and a shit ton of other proprietary designs like S&W's, POF's, Ruger, etc.. I would recommend sticking with the AR10(armalite) or DPMS pattern. Most aftermarket stuff is going to be DPMS. The differences in format affect receivers, barrels, gas systems, buffer system, LPK's minus FCG, etc..
2.) Large frame AR's are not just gassier, they are a whole different animal, and its not obvious or intuitive to apply AR15 practices to the large frame designs. Adjustable gas blocks may help and may not, don't rely one

You can learn a bit more here:

PSA PA10 (308) Experiment

Sooo I wanted another 308 rifle, and was pondering back and forth between going Aero, PSA, or buying something used off here. My financial priorities do not align with mid to high tier 308AR/AR10's so under $1500 but closer to $1000. This would not be precision focused and will wear a 1-4/1-6...

www.snipershide.com

 

[byronrc15]

Well lets start with a summary of the basics:
1.) Theres no such thing as "mil-spec" AR10's. There are 2-3 main formats, and a shit ton of other proprietary designs like S&W's, POF's, Ruger, etc.. I would recommend sticking with the AR10(armalite) or DPMS pattern. Most aftermarket stuff is going to be DPMS. The differences in format affect receivers, barrels, gas systems, buffer system, LPK's minus FCG, etc..
2.) Large frame AR's are not just gassier, they are a whole different animal, and its not obvious or intuitive to apply AR15 practices to the large frame designs. Adjustable gas blocks may help and may not, don't rely one

You can learn a bit more here:

PSA PA10 (308) Experiment

Sooo I wanted another 308 rifle, and was pondering back and forth between going Aero, PSA, or buying something used off here. My financial priorities do not align with mid to high tier 308AR/AR10's so under $1500 but closer to $1000. This would not be precision focused and will wear a 1-4/1-6...

www.snipershide.com

Sorry for not responding earlier, got caught up with work. Appreciate the tips. I was planning on going DPMS pattern, simply because I have a new Aero M5E1 upper and handguard lying around that I bought on a whim. But reading the thread makes me wish it was an armalite pattern. For the buffer, if its compatible, I was going to get a silent captured spring from JP. They've run very well in my small frame guns.
If the M5E1 is less than ideal for an accuracy build, Ill sell it and start from scratch.

 

[Gustav7]

Sorry for not responding earlier, got caught up with work. Appreciate the tips. I was planning on going DPMS pattern, simply because I have a new Aero M5E1 upper and handguard lying around that I bought on a whim. But reading the thread makes me wish it was an armalite pattern. For the buffer, if its compatible, I was going to get a silent captured spring from JP. They've run very well in my small frame guns.
If the M5E1 is less than ideal for an accuracy build, Ill sell it and start from scratch.

The good news is you can run Armalite's buffer system. The armalite pattern is mainly related to the receivers and the barrel extension, but to a lesser extent the length of the gas system.

I do believe the JP capture system comes with shims for either system, so you should be fine running it.

 

[ranger0787]

FWIW;
I went down the custom DPMS-pattern 6.5 Creedmoor AR10 path. I'm done pulling my hair out & left a voicemail with CLE for an all STEEL barrel.

I went with a Proof 24" 1:8 twist pre-chambered 6.5 Creed Carbon Fiber barrel for an AR10 build. The 1st barrel was sent back per my gunsmith's advice. It had a rolled-over piece of steel projecting badly into the barrel and got caught on cleaning patches, etc. Bad enough to not be able to be lapped out. A call was placed to Proof, they replaced the barrel at their expense after I sent borescope photos and had the gunsmith on speaker with me and the rep at Proof. 2nd barrel was better, but still had flashing in the barrel from when the gas port hole was drilled. It was hand-lapped out by my gunsmith. The crown was checked with a gauge and was opened up by pre-threading for 5/8x24 and relieving the stress. The fix was to rebate the crown back inside the bore where the threaded muzzle began. Problem solved, tight crown. Barrel length effectively now 23.5". The barrel was epoxied into the upper after truing the receiver face, Trigger tech diamond trigger installed, JP Enterprises FMOS, Silent captured buffer system, Magpul PRS stock, adjustable gas block. Area 419 Hellfire system installed on top of a Kinetic Security Systems tuner to fine tune for factory ammo.

The problems began when trying to hand load for long range accuracy. Never could shoot more than 4 shots without subsequent shots going "Haywire". At 200 yards this morning with zero wind & mirage, the first 4 shots were all sharing one hole. Shot 5=1" due south, shot 6=@ 2" south...and so on. I clicked up a half MOA, aimed high 10 ring and blew shot 7 out the top. I let the rifle cool for 15-20 min & repeated. With the exact same results.

So, I guess the barrel would be great to hunt with or shoot "Stages" with no more than 5 shots/stage. No good for 10-25 shots at a time like all my other conventional stainless barrels. What a colossal wa$te of time & money. I DID absolutely love the weight of the rifle...only positive that I can think of. I'd rather have the accuracy.

 

[byronrc15]

FWIW;
I went down the custom DPMS-pattern 6.5 Creedmoor AR10 path. I'm done pulling my hair out & left a voicemail with CLE for an all STEEL barrel.

I went with a Proof 24" 1:8 twist pre-chambered 6.5 Creed Carbon Fiber barrel for an AR10 build. The 1st barrel was sent back per my gunsmith's advice. It had a rolled-over piece of steel projecting badly into the barrel and got caught on cleaning patches, etc. Bad enough to not be able to be lapped out. A call was placed to Proof, they replaced the barrel at their expense after I sent borescope photos and had the gunsmith on speaker with me and the rep at Proof. 2nd barrel was better, but still had flashing in the barrel from when the gas port hole was drilled. It was hand-lapped out by my gunsmith. The crown was checked with a gauge and was opened up by pre-threading for 5/8x24 and relieving the stress. The fix was to rebate the crown back inside the bore where the threaded muzzle began. Problem solved, tight crown. Barrel length effectively now 23.5". The barrel was epoxied into the upper after truing the receiver face, Trigger tech diamond trigger installed, JP Enterprises FMOS, Silent captured buffer system, Magpul PRS stock, adjustable gas block. Area 419 Hellfire system installed on top of a Kinetic Security Systems tuner to fine tune for factory ammo.

The problems began when trying to hand load for long range accuracy. Never could shoot more than 4 shots without subsequent shots going "Haywire". At 200 yards this morning with zero wind & mirage, the first 4 shots were all sharing one hole. Shot 5=1" due south, shot 6=@ 2" south...and so on. I clicked up a half MOA, aimed high 10 ring and blew shot 7 out the top. I let the rifle cool for 15-20 min & repeated. With the exact same results.

So, I guess the barrel would be great to hunt with or shoot "Stages" with no more than 5 shots/stage. No good for 10-25 shots at a time like all my other conventional stainless barrels. What a colossal wa$te of time & money. I DID absolutely love the weight of the rifle...only positive that I can think of. I'd rather have the accuracy.

Good lord those are some ugly bore scope images. This is the main reason I am shying away from Proof Research. I have bad luck when it comes to QC issues - if there's a lemon on the line, it will almost certainly get shipped to me. I know Proof will stand by their product, but I dont want to deal with the hassle. Thanks for the response. Hope the next build goes more smoothly.

If you want to be an accuracy snob I'm not sure why you want to build a 16" LFAR. Kind of the antithesis of an accuracy build. Thinking you have to have the very best barrel as a relative newb is a common mistake. The barrel is a consumable item, not a sacred grail. If you are buying ammo it is laughable to spend double on a barrel for "accuracy". And when you look at barrel weights a 16" CF isn't really lighter than a light profile steel. If you're looking to shave real weight it's going to have to come from everywhere on the rifle. Not just the barrel. A specialty Upper and Lower, handguard, buttstock and grip, barrel, even the BCG. Forget about a 4 oz muzzle device. And frankly , I don't really want a gun like that once it's all assembled. I just built a 16" 308W. No super special parts. It weighs 10.5lbs scoped up, with suppressor. That's light enough to hunt with and I appreciate the weight when actually shooting it. Not just for recoil but also for ease of shooting.

Check out V7's fluted barrels for a light barrel.

When I say lightweight, I mean sub 11 lbs fully kitted out (can and optic). I considered carbon fiber because of the improvement in balance more so than the weight reduction. As far as the accuracy snob part goes, I agree - handloading will get me closer than a great barrel instead of a good one. But given that I cant handload right now, I have to settle for the barrel. Ill be happy with sub moa groups, and there are plenty of AR 10's with shorter barrels that are capable of that with commercial ammo.

 

[byronrc15]

Thanks for the advice on weight. My experience has been that even with commercial loadings, pricier barrels will outshoot cheaper offerings. My JP will outshoot my Criterion. But that's a sample size of one - perhaps on the whole, JP barrels and Criterion barrels will shoot factory loads about the same, and the difference only really begins to show up with handloads.
I was looking at the more expensive offerings for three reasons - one, they're probably less likely to have QC issues. I work in QC, and small batch companies typically do a better job than the mass producers when it comes to catching the lemons. Two, I have friends who load, and hope to have the room for equipment soon. Three (and correct me if I am mistaken on this), I am assuming that a premium barrel with a middle of the road twist rate will perform better with a variety of loadings than a good barrel with the same twist rate.
But maybe I'd be better off with a Criterion and spending the saved money on glass....I am not comitted to anything just yet. Thanks for the tips.