Advice on Cartridge and Rifle (and a lot of other stuff) for High Accuracy Bolt Action Rifle

[VerSeven]

So first a little context I grew up shooting a 22, 30 30, and 30 06. I am currently in my 40s and other than a deer hunt every year or two I haven't shot much since I was 18. I never really developed the full depth and breadth of skills I needed for proper use of a fire arm (my father basically always handled buying ammo, sighting in the rifles, cleaning, they were his guns, ect). I am looking to get a few bolt action rifles of my own and really work on getting my basic skills up to a level where I feel confident passing them down. I currently have a 22 and have been getting some volume target practice back in (not sure if I should try to modify it to take a scope, leave it as is, or pick up another and set it more like I want my heavier rifles to be). I am looking to buy (or have built, or assemble myself) two other bolt action rifles (one on the lighter end of the spectrum and one on the heavier end of the spectrum in terms of power). The lighter rifle is what I am looking at and asking about now.

So primary goals and reasoning
-Sufficient to ethically take a deer (White Tail or Axis (Chital)) out to 400 yards. I have almost always used a 30-06 when hunting in the past so that is sort of my baseline/reference point.
-Extremely Accurate (this is mostly personal / satisfaction requirement, I want that feeling when the shot goes exactly where you want it, so I probably want accuracy in excess of what I might need for my use case)
-Able to do long range (out to 1000 yards) target shooting. (I like the idea of real long range shooting have a pretty technical and math heavy background and I think it would be entertaining satisfying and fun and a good way to drive development of other skills)
-A bit lighter on recoil that a 30 06 (I know I will shoot it more and get more practice in if this is the case, I do plan on going through the process of getting a suppressor but that might be a little further down the road).
-I want it to be able to function as a general purpose gun (so nothing to ridiculous in terms of weight on either end of the spectrum)

Other notes
-I do plan on learning to hand load ASAP, have done some pretty heavy research and reading on the topic already. I have found a NRA basic Metallic Cartridge reloading course nearby and play to take it sometime in December, if anyone knows any other good resources I would love to hear (already have and read through the ABCs of reloading a few times). Having good factory ammo is nice but not a requirement I am confident in my ability to get it down.
-Hunting in my area (Southwest Texas, Hill Country and edge of the Chihuahuan desert) is normally White Tail or Axis deer, I have never hunted anywhere else and may not, it is normally done from a deer blind or if you know people or have property (I do and have) off someone's front or back porch or out their window, normally the range is pretty short (25-200 yards), there normally isn't a ton of hiking or spending all day in the woods so the super light weight hunting rifles that are lot of people seem to prioritize are not really what I am talking or thinking about when I think of a hunting rifle.
-Setting goals and benchmarks to work towards is sort of how I drive hobbies and development so if you can think of good things to aim for along the way it would be much appreciated. What do you consider the basic and indispensable for a marksman/hunter.
-I would like to be able to get a rifle by mid-may if going custom while still getting exactly what I want, lead times on some of the components are why I am asking now.

So now the specific questions
-What cartridge or cartridges do you think would best serve purposes (I have been looking things like the 6mm ARC, and 6mm BR at the low end with things like the 6.5 Creedmore and 6.5 PRC at the middle range, to even considering things like the 7 PRC and 300 WSM at the high end even though I know they kick more than a 30 06). I am a proponent of good shot placement but also it can't be too dead, what are honest thoughts on what cartridges are sufficient for this (with proper shot placement, proper bullet selection, and dialed in handloads). I have some varied goals and there is give and take with every option I am asking for advice because I am very much of the buy once cry once mentality but I know no once choice if perfect for everything I want.
-What does it take (beyond your own skill and practice) to get a a rifle that will shoot 1 MOA, 1/2 MOA, 1/4 MOA. Last time I did groups with the 30 06 I normally hunt with it did about a 3 inch group at 100 yards, that always seemed pretty good to me but I would really like to see how much better it can get, and know what it takes to get there (What will buying something like a Tikka 3x or Howa 1500 get you to with good handloading, how much of a difference would blueprinting a Howa make, Is assembling a Custom Rifle using a prefit barrel going to be inherently less accurate than having a good gunsmith chamber the same set up, ect).
-What sort of weight would you aim for with a specific chambering (not looking for precise but I would love a ballpark number).
-What specific trainings would you look for if you were in my position

Thanks in advance for any help I know repeated topics like this may get tiresome for some people but I do appreciate any time or thought you take to respond.

 

[1moaoff]

If your going to hunt a 6, 6.5, or 7 mm

 

[surgeon260]

First precision rifle? 308 or 6.5 Creed.

 

[HMRamateur]

If you're ok with only being able to hand load, 7mmSAW. This is my favorite cartridge. Just a bit of a beefed up 7-08. Can shoot heavier bullets than a 7-08, no more recoil than a 308 but better ballistics. Uses small rifle primers, so no worrying about not finding large rifles. I use it for hunting, but it's a very capable round past 1000 for target shooting. It maintains the required velocity for reliable expansion out to 700 yds, so well within your limits of hunting distance. Can get factory brass and dies relatively easily through West Texas Ordnance, so no messing with any of the usual difficulties that come with loading for wildcats.

I shoot 168 berger VLDs in a 10 pound rifle. Very manageable for recoil and still being able to carry the rifle.

 

[oldrifleman]

6.5 Creedmoor, Manners night stalker, Arca rail with removable weights, M24 barrel, decent scope and one piece mount, lots if ammo. Shoot and Enjoy

 

[hafejd30]

I really like my tikka CTR. I have mine in 20” 308 and a krg bravo stock

I probably missed it but what’s the $$ limit?

Also I’d go 308 or 6.5. 6.5 will be better for achieving the 1000 yard mark. I prefer 308 for hunting

I personally wouldn’t waste money on blueprinting now days. You’re better off to buy a aftermarket action and assemble the rifle before blueprinting in my opinion

I say,

Tikka
Custom (impact/terminus etc)
AI

For my preference

 

[noremorse92]

If you aren't interesting in going the custom route, which might I add is a deep dark rabbit hole, I'd recommend just going with a Tikka CTR in 6.5 creed.

You don't need to really do anything to this rifle other than mount a scope and buy ammo and shoot it. You can upgrade the stock later on if you want, there's a fair few options for that. The factory stock does a fine job though.

I love 308 but there's no real reason to choose it over the 6.5 creed.

Another option is to look for a nice used custom rifle built by a reputable smith and being sold by an honest owner.

 

[VerSeven]

So thank you for all the replies so far.
To surgeon260 --- Yes it would be my first precision rifles I think the ones I have used before were all Remingtons and Winchesters from around 1950.

To hafejd30 --- Opps I forgot to include price range. I am looking to not spend money unnecessarily but will do what I need to get what I want. What I want is less that 1/2 moa, preferably around or under 1/4 (but I don't have a realistic benchmark for how hard that is to achieve so I don't want to set my sights too high). Budget wise my limit (not counting scope and accessories which I know all add up) is around 3000. I have about 2k saved now, and am budgeting about 250 a month towards this project for the next couple years, so a lot of it is more a how long do I have to wait and equipment vs training instead what I am willing to spend.

 

[hafejd30]

So thank you for all the replies so far.
To surgeon260 --- Yes it would be my first precision rifles I think the ones I have used before were all Remingtons and Winchesters from around 1950.

To hafejd30 --- Opps I forgot to include price range. I am looking to not spend money unnecessarily but will do what I need to get what I want. What I want is less that 1/2 moa, preferably around or under 1/4 (but I don't have a realistic benchmark for how hard that is to achieve so I don't want to set my sights too high). Budget wise my limit (not counting scope and accessories which I know all add up) is around 3000. I have about 2k saved now, and am budgeting about 250 a month towards this project for the next couple years, so a lot of it is more a how long do I have to wait vs what I am willing to spend.

With that budget and your accuracy expectations I’d 100% go custom. You can assemble youself

Look through the tons of threads here. Lots of prs shooters who run a ton of different actions, chassis and barrels

Pick your preferences from those

Watch the px for parts such as chassis and actions etc. Save a ton of $$ vs new

Have a reputable smith spin up a barrel. Or buy a prefit.

Zero reason with that budget and your target for accuracy to buy factory like a tikka

1/2 moa is a realistic goal in my opinion. 1/4 moa is great but an honest 1/4 moa gun takes a great shooter and reloading ammo to truly get there. Which can be done with a custom rig down the road if you have the patience and learn along the way

You can also find complete rifles in the px here. Which make good starters. Just assume if you buy from the px that the barrel is a consumable item. Which it is. But you don’t know how the previous owner cleaned it, how accurate it truly is or if the round count they give you is truly accurate. So assume you’re buying the action and chassis at the price. Which is likely to be a decent amount less than buying those items new

You have the time while saving to read the threads and watch videos on this. Which will teach you a ton. Or if you decide to run tikka I have a CTR in 308 and T3X lite Alpine in 300. Makes a good pair if you want two rifles. But I’d get the CTR with a 24” 6.5 stainless barrel and whatever light T3 fits your hunting needs

 

[HMRamateur]

If that's the case, tikka CTR, 6.5 creed. You won't need it, but a new trigger spring will make the trigger a bit better. Spend the extra on training.

Try to work your way towards 1/2 moa, that's realistic. Forget about 1/4 for a while, until you spend the money on a more capable rig and you have the skill to do it consistently.

 

[FuhQ]

So first a little context I grew up shooting a 22, 30 30, and 30 06. I am currently in my 40s and other than a deer hunt every year or two I haven't shot much since I was 18. I never really developed the full depth and breadth of skills I needed for proper use of a fire arm (my father basically always handled buying ammo, sighting in the rifles, cleaning, they were his guns, ect). I am looking to get a few bolt action rifles of my own and really work on getting my basic skills up to a level where I feel confident passing them down. I currently have a 22 and have been getting some volume target practice back in (not sure if I should try to modify it to take a scope, leave it as is, or pick up another and set it more like I want my heavier rifles to be). I am looking to buy (or have built, or assemble myself) two other bolt action rifles (one on the lighter end of the spectrum and one on the heavier end of the spectrum in terms of power). The lighter rifle is what I am looking at and asking about now.

So primary goals and reasoning
-Sufficient to ethically take a deer (White Tail or Axis (Chital)) out to 400 yards. I have almost always used a 30-06 when hunting in the past so that is sort of my baseline/reference point.
-Extremely Accurate (this is mostly personal / satisfaction requirement, I want that feeling when the shot goes exactly where you want it, so I probably want accuracy in excess of what I might need for my use case)
-Able to do long range (out to 1000 yards) target shooting. (I like the idea of real long range shooting have a pretty technical and math heavy background and I think it would be entertaining satisfying and fun and a good way to drive development of other skills)
-A bit lighter on recoil that a 30 06 (I know I will shoot it more and get more practice in if this is the case, I do plan on going through the process of getting a suppressor but that might be a little further down the road).
-I want it to be able to function as a general purpose gun (so nothing to ridiculous in terms of weight on either end of the spectrum)

Other notes
-I do plan on learning to hand load ASAP, have done some pretty heavy research and reading on the topic already. I have found a NRA basic Metallic Cartridge reloading course nearby and play to take it sometime in December, if anyone knows any other good resources I would love to hear (already have and read through the ABCs of reloading a few times). Having good factory ammo is nice but not a requirement I am confident in my ability to get it down.
-Hunting in my area (Southwest Texas, Hill Country and edge of the Chihuahuan desert) is normally White Tail or Axis deer, I have never hunted anywhere else and may not, it is normally done from a deer blind or if you know people or have property (I do and have) off someone's front or back porch or out their window, normally the range is pretty short (25-200 yards), there normally isn't a ton of hiking or spending all day in the woods so the super light weight hunting rifles that are lot of people seem to prioritize are not really what I am talking or thinking about when I think of a hunting rifle.
-Setting goals and benchmarks to work towards is sort of how I drive hobbies and development so if you can think of good things to aim for along the way it would be much appreciated. What do you consider the basic and indispensable for a marksman/hunter.
-I would like to be able to get a rifle by mid-may if going custom while still getting exactly what I want, lead times on some of the components are why I am asking now.

So now the specific questions
-What cartridge or cartridges do you think would best serve purposes (I have been looking things like the 6mm ARC, and 6mm BR at the low end with things like the 6.5 Creedmore and 6.5 PRC at the middle range, to even considering things like the 7 PRC and 300 WSM at the high end even though I know they kick more than a 30 06). I am a proponent of good shot placement but also it can't be too dead, what are honest thoughts on what cartridges are sufficient for this (with proper shot placement, proper bullet selection, and dialed in handloads). I have some varied goals and there is give and take with every option I am asking for advice because I am very much of the buy once cry once mentality but I know no once choice if perfect for everything I want.
-What does it take (beyond your own skill and practice) to get a a rifle that will shoot 1 MOA, 1/2 MOA, 1/4 MOA. Last time I did groups with the 30 06 I normally hunt with it did about a 3 inch group at 100 yards, that always seemed pretty good to me but I would really like to see how much better it can get, and know what it takes to get there (What will buying something like a Tikka 3x or Howa 1500 get you to with good handloading, how much of a difference would blueprinting a Howa make, Is assembling a Custom Rifle using a prefit barrel going to be inherently less accurate than having a good gunsmith chamber the same set up, ect).
-What sort of weight would you aim for with a specific chambering (not looking for precise but I would love a ballpark number).
-What specific trainings would you look for if you were in my position

Thanks in advance for any help I know repeated topics like this may get tiresome for some people but I do appreciate any time or thought you take to respond.

If you reload, the easy-button option would be to build an Aero Solus action with a TriggerTech Special or Diamond single-stage, and have a custom prefit built for it chambered in .25 Creedmoor, with a 20" barrel with a 7.5" twist, and pushing Berger 133 Elite Hunters. You can build it at home with simple action wrench and barrel vise, and you can order other prefit barrels for it (that can be easily found most everywhere, since it was designed to use Zermatt Origin prefit barrels that are readily available from most companies). I'm getting 2800 FPS MV average from mine, and it's a very easy cartridge to load for. Alpha Munitions makes .25 Creed brass, and sells the reamers that match their brass. Winchester StaBall 6.5 powder can be found everywhere. CCI 400 primers (or any SRP primers) can be found just about everywhere. It's very conservative on powder consumption, it's got good barrel life, is an excellent design (Creedmoor case), and extremely mild recoil.

I built mine this year, put about 300 rounds down the barrel so far, and I'm extremely happy with it.

 

[Rust]

If you are set on a custom rifle, the gunsmithing is the most important thing. The best components don't matter if the barreling/chambering is trash. There are at least a half dozen top barrel makers and Bartlein seems to lead the pack. The best smiths are busy so don't expect same day service.

Pick a decent aftermarket action, any quality Remington 700 clone. The reason I say a simple 700 clone is the scope mounting rail can be changed to suit your needs. A 0 degree for general use or a 20 or 30 degree for long range. A plain clone is also a lot less expensive than those with more features built in. No trigger hangers so will fit in any stock, plenty of aftermarket triggers

Pick a top barrel, and pick a chambering. IMO .308 and 6.5 Creedmore are the easy general purpose choices, quality factory ammo widely available and a very wide selection of reloading components available and they are easy and inexpensive to reload.

If you're looking for a general purpose stock more biased towards hunting I prefer a more traditional stock and my favorite is the McMillan Sako Hunter. Mild beavertail, mid height comb and simple. For tactical style stocks I've stuck with McMillan A-5s so far. KMW has a very nice proprietary design made be Mcmillan and also offers an advanced chassis stock. If you are more interested in a chassis stock, they are expensive so hit a comp or range and check them out for feel/fit. Chassis stocks aren't cheap and you want to get one you want to keep rather than make a mistake.

As far as optics go, there is good enough in the $1,000 to $2,000 range and premium in the very expensive range up to $4,000. I've known a few people who used Sightrons for 1,000 yard matches with good results. For tactical matches where you would spin the hell out of the turrets more expensive scopes would last better.

Finally, don't overthink things. Apply the KISS principle.

 

[Cody S]

you're learning, my advice is to keep it simple.
do what I did very recently, buy an action and a top quality prefit, and a barrel vice(90$) and an action wrench for the action you buy. you get to screw it all together yourself and tell people you built it, plus i can guarantee it'll be more accurate/high quality than any factory gun. do Patriot valley arms and get a 6.5 creedmoor prefit for the action you choose.
I recommend the American rifle company, Coup de grace. throw it in a manners tcs and bolt it together.
do that and you'll have an exceptionally accurate rifle that doesn't kick like a mule and can easily hang out to 1k.
then you need to buy a scope, and the sky is basically the limit there aswell. a good starting place is vortex venom 5-25 or the vortex razor depending on budget.

 

[Turkeytider]

A ton of good advice here. Your stated budget and desire for how you want to use the gun says “custom “ to me. Having said that, if you decide on the easier route, out of the box it’s hard to beat one of the Tikka models. I recently acquired a T3X Super Varmint in 6.5 creed for use primarily as a range gun that will cover ranges out to 1 K. Also, I wanted something a bit more flexible for both range and possible deer/varmints. Since I’d only been shooting my Savage Model 12 LRPV in .223, which has been a great rifle, I’ve gone through a “get acquainted “ period through the first 200 rounds with the Super Varmint. I’m convinced that in the hands of someone who can REALLY shoot, this gun could stack rounds on top of each other. When I get the right dope in the scope, it will easily put rounds into a 5” gong at 500 yards. For an “ all around” out of the box rifle, I would wholeheartedly recommend a serious look.

 

[Jadazu]

Someone else may have said it; don't buy anything that you can't buy shouldered pre-fit barrels for.

6.5 Creed; the easy button for all that you want. Go top shelf and buy Berger ammo and sell the once fired brass (to me...), and get training, and shoot *a lot*. (Other BTHP ammo is less exp, almost as good, but doesn't have brass resale value.) There are 6.5 CM hunting loads for almost anything.

Handle as many rifles as you can before you decide. Buy more than one. My choices are Tikka UPR (CTR mags are excellent), Aero Solus (the chassis is an excellent value, or the Bravo), Bighorn Origin (shares barrels with the Solus). Buy a light rifle and a heavy one.

Look thru as many scopes as you can. Pick a mid-tier FFP mil/mil that has a reticle that you like. Pick one of the brands that has easy resale, you'll prob change your preferences after a while of shooting with it.

ETA: Find training sites that will lend/rent quality rifles. And, times I've done that, most everyone there wants to showoff their rifles and will let you get behind a rifle and shoot it. Lots of different preferences that work, find what you like.

 

[VerSeven]

Again thanks for all of the good and thoughtful advice. I am going to definitely take some time to mull it all over. I did do some research on the 7mm SAW and it does sound almost exactly like what I want in terms of recoil and power, but I think as a beginning reloader (especially after reading through the thread on it here in the RL forum) the keep it simple rule applies to me here, that said thank you for putting it on my radar it is a very interesting round and developed semi locally for me so maybe someday. I am going to take a real close look at that Tikka SS 6.5 CM 24" CTR, and Super Varmint since they look like about 1/3 or less that what a top notch custom rig would run and may be all I need.

 

[Turkeytider]

Again thanks for all of the good and thoughtful advice. I am going to definitely take some time to mull it all over. I did do some research on the 7mm SAW and it does sound almost exactly like what I want in terms of recoil and power, but I think as a beginning reloader (especially after reading through the thread on it here in the RL forum) the keep it simple rule applies to me here, that said thank you for putting it on my radar it is a very interesting round and developed semi locally for me so maybe someday. I am going to take a real close look at that Tikka SS 6.5 CM 24" CTR, and Super Varmint since they look like about 1/3 or less that what a top notch custom rig would run and may be all I need.

Just for info, the Super Varmint is SS with a cerokote (sp) finish. I’ve found the adjustable comb to be a real plus. The CTR may well be the less expensive of the two. It appears that a great many CTR owners remove the barreled action and put it in an after market stock. I’m certainly no expert on rifle stocks but the roughtech stock on the Super Varmint certainly seems substantial enough.

 

[hafejd30]

 

[Wannashootit]

7-08 for whitetails, and very capable at 1k with high BC boolits.

 

[VerSeven]

I haven't really used on online marketplace like the Buy Sell Trade section here. I read the stuff on checking user feedback and avoiding fraud in general, and have been watching it closely for a few weeks now. What do you looking for when trying to assess if you want to work with a seller or not, and common red flags a new user might not pick up on? What % discount are you typically looking for when you buy used here?

I did manage to try out a few rifles at a nearby range and had a few questions. One of the ones (that I was most impressed with) was a really heavy rifle with a bat action chambered in 6 dasher, it was insanely accurate but seemed like it would be a pain for a lot of use cases (though still quite manageable with the way I typically hunt) it was also on a chassis rather than a typical stock.

So how much of that accuracy would you attribute to the action, the cartridge (I know dashers are wildcats and thus all handloaded), the barrel, and the chassis (including the weight), I know a scope plays a big role to though sort of indirectly.

Would you be worried about buying a used action or a BAT action in specific, they seem to be the highest priced in general and I had heard of them a few times before I started doing my current round of research, but they don't seem to be talked about as much or as highly regarded here as say the 737 impact or Origin, anything I might be missing about them?

My understanding is that the action is typically one of the longest lasting and best wearing components of a rifle is that accurate?

Do you find you get used to chassis systems if you use them enough or is the preference for one or another pretty hard coded with you. Can you get the benefits of a chassis from something like a MDT XRS or JAE (or Zermatt Matterhorn) while keeping the traditional rifle feel, I have handled a few rifles with that kind of specific contour (Not quite sure what you call it but you see it in seekins pro hunter 2s and the UPR Tikka stocks) and they feel great to me.

If you have a specific bolt face (say the .308) would you be able to just change properly chambered barrels and move between say a 6.5 creedmore and 6 dasher?

I know these are a lot of pretty simple question and I think I know the answers to a lot of them, but something like an action (especially from a forum) is a big purchase and I am trying to double check everything before committing to something specific (making sure everything fits together the way I think it does).

 

[Harman117]

With your use case, "budget", and current skills/knowledge I'd vote the factory option route in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Few options worth looking at:

- Tikka CTR w/ a different stock or chassis
- Bergara HMR
- Aero Solus Hunter Rifle

Spend more money on optic, peripheral equipment (bipod/bags/etc.), and ammo

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

From reading, it seems you done some homework.

But I have always had a different way to look at things. to my mind, compromises are always poor choices no matter what you try to do. A hunting rifle, even a good one will be too light and never offer the adjustment necessary for decent target shooting and a target rifle will be too heavy and too complicated to even just walking to a stand, much less a long hunt on foot. Yes, I know it can be done, but should it be done?

There are plenty of very good hunting rifles at ridiculously low prices these days. Ruger American and Weatherby Vanguard, are all but at give away prices and do the job and do it well. A really good target rifle they are not, but for hunting, they can do it as well as a $10,000 custom hunting rifle. Best part, putting a scratch on the stock of a Weatherby Vanguard is not like putting a scratch on a rifle that you all but had to take a 2nd mortgage out on to afford.

Target rifles are more, but judicious shopping can put one in your safe and on your bench or shooting mat for a reasonable amount. AND, it will be the rifle you can depend on to get you to a thousand or more. An action (Rem 700 footprint) such as the ARC, a Proof Prefit barrel, a fairly inexpensive MDT chassis that really looks and feels more like a stock than a chassis, a Trigger Tech standard rather than the Diamond then your only real rifle expense is the scope. There, compromise or budget just does not work. But for starters, you still can find some pretty decent FFP scopes fr prices that are reasonable.

Get both in the same caliber and you are good to go. My recommendation, don’t go with a magnum style. When you are target shooting you want to target shoot, not kill steel. The 6.5 Creedmoor is the easy button.

Just me, but in firearms, two pretty darned nice ones are always better than one that does good on one and really crappy on the other.