Aero Precision AR-10 BCG warranty claim

[Praetorian_6]

I figured I'd document this in real-time, for better or worse.

I've purchased quite a bit from AP. I have purchased an M5, two M5E1s, a 16" M4E1, an 11.5" M4E1, parts kits, and several other odds and ends. Something approaching about $5k in parts and rifles. All except 1 of them, one of the M5E1s, have shot very reliably without issue, thus far, and I am happy with them.

Fortunately, because I have a couple M5's, I also bought a spare nitride BCG. The M5E1 I purchased had failure to extract and fail to feed fully into battery issues. Ammunition didn't make a difference, and the same ammo fired fine in the other 2 M5s. The entire rifle, except for the Geissele SSA trigger that I also purchased from AP, is made from Aero Precision components. It took me a while to narrow it down, figuring it could be a gas issue, ammunition or magazine issue or something else. However, I popped the identical spare AP 308 nitride BCG I had into it on my last trip to the range, and the problem was gone! I fired something like 100-150 rounds without an issue, whereas I used to have misfires every magazine.

So, I wrote to them asking them to replace/exchange the bad BCG with another one. I think I have about 200-300 rounds total on that BCG. I bought both of the Nitride BCGs (the defective one and a spare) on 02MAR21. I know it's been a long time since the order, but given my confidence that this has to be manufacturing defect, as the spare cured my problems, & there are not enough rounds through to be a result of wear & tear, I hope they'll stand behind their product. I have never filed any kind of claim nor requested customer support until now. Given the time and number of rifles/parts I purchased, I hope they'll take that as an indicator that I'm shooting them straight.

I'm no armorer, but I suspect something about the extractor itself is out of tolerance. I'm really glad that the spare BCG I ordered fixed the trouble I was having with the rifle. I'm still an avid AP fan. I hope thet don't let me down on this warranty issue. I talked to one of their phone reps today who said that they'll respond to my warranty claim in ~3weeks. Seems kinda rough, but since the defective BCG isn't keeping me from shooting, the timeframe is really no bother.

Will report back on what they say.

Chris

 

[JsnSanko]

Have you taken it apart, fully lubricated it, I mean oil the hell out of it, and run it for a while. Large frame ARs need lots of lube and break in. I had this same problem with a higher priced BCG. That’s what I did to fix it.

You also didn’t mention which level of BCG as far as finish goes. Even with the high end BCG I oil the heck out of them and clean frequently. You can take out the extractor and springs and get back together.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Are you familiar with gas rings? The gas rings can be out of alignment and could cause this issue. They are located on the bolt itself.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Have you taken it apart, fully lubricated it, I mean oil the hell out of it, and run it for a while. Large frame ARs need lots of lube and break in. I had this same problem with a higher priced BCG. That’s what I did to fix it.

You also didn’t mention which level of BCG as far as finish goes. Even with the high end BCG I oil the heck out of them and clean frequently. You can take out the extractor and springs and get back together.

Yes

 

[Praetorian_6]

Are you familiar with gas rings? The gas rings can be out of alignment and could cause this issue. They are located on the bolt itself.

You talking about the 3 offset rings at the back of the bolt? Nothing visibly wrong there.

 

[Kamerad]

I had a loose gas key on a new Aero Nitride BCG in 5.56. They replaced it no fuss. Excellent customer service.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Received an email reply:

Hello there, we can bring the bcg back for inspection. What is your shipping address?

I'm concerned that the explanation, which was extremely similar to my first post in this thread -- it was a copy/paste/tweak of the first message I sent them -- was not good enough to receive an agreement to take care of me. My concern, having dealt with my share of shitty companies is that if I return the bad BCG, I'll have no evidence, no parts to reuse, and then I'll get some BS claim that the part checked out fine and something else is the issue. That's not really possible, because all of the parts are AP parts and the replacement BCG solves the problem. So, any negative response at that point would really be a problem, because I would no longer be able to disprove their position, I'd have no parts to rebuild from, and they may even penalize me by requiring me to pay for shipping to get a bad part back. Can't even imagine how pissed I'd be at that point. Therefore, I'd prefer to retain control of the development of this situation, because I can handle all possible outcomes of the alternatives I've considered.

I replied with a plea to call me and my contact info. I think a verbal conversation would go a lot better than a message like this post.

The bottom line is that I see 3 reasonable-to-me alternatives that end with me happy and that I consider reasonable to their reply. 1) I'll take a video of the problems I'm having with the bad Aero BCG and demonstrate that the good, identical Aero BCG solves that problem, 2) they can tell me their inspection process and I'll use my tools to provide that data to them before getting a guaranteed replacement and returning it if they still want it, 3) receive assurances that they will replace the bolt before returning it for their follow-on QA/QC inspection process. All of those alternatives seem very reasonable to me, and prevent me getting taken advantage of. Looking for feedback on these thoughts.

A fourth alternative, should they reject these alternatives & insist upon their return for inspection without guarantee, goes right in line with making/posting a video here and on youtube. I'll simply move on, buy a JP hardened bolt, see if that fixes the issue as I suspect, document AP's failure here in parts and customer service, and go on about my business relaying this experience with video evidence to this community & then working with more deserving companies in the future.

In the meantime, I can further test my hypothesis about the bad part by swapping components of the good and bad BCGs out until I find exactly what causes the issue. I'll bet that just swapping the good Aero BCG's bolt with the bad bolt alone out will fix it. Then, I can try swapping the extractor alone, etc... until I've narrowed it down to the exact part that needs modification/repair. This would be interesting and, I think, fun to document here.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Disassemble the bcg, swap the bolt with another bcg and see if that is your problem. If it's anything in the bcg, it's going to be in the $50 bolt. The BCG is inert. It's like blaming the upper receiver, it's not really doing anything. There is this problem called "tolerance stacking" that rears it's ugly head reasonably often with ar10 rifles, and it could be a combination of a half dozen things. However, if the bolt works in another rifle, and the other bolt doesn't work in this bcg, then further explore the bcg.

Right now you're at the equivalent stage of a mechanic saying "I've got it narrowed down to something under the hood".

 

[hlee]

Received an email reply:



I'm concerned that the explanation, which was extremely similar to my first post in this thread -- it was a copy/paste/tweak of the first message I sent them -- was not good enough to receive an agreement to take care of me. My concern, having dealt with my share of shitty companies is that if I return the bad BCG, I'll have no evidence, no parts to reuse, and then I'll get some BS claim that the part checked out fine and something else is the issue. That's not really possible, because all of the parts are AP parts and the replacement BCG solves the problem. So, any negative response at that point would really be a problem, because I would no longer be able to disprove their position, I'd have no parts to rebuild from, and they may even penalize me by requiring me to pay for shipping to get a bad part back. Can't even imagine how pissed I'd be at that point. Therefore, I'd prefer to retain control of the development of this situation, because I can handle all possible outcomes of the alternatives I've considered.

I replied with a plea to call me and my contact info. I think a verbal conversation would go a lot better than a message like this post.

The bottom line is that I see 3 reasonable-to-me alternatives that end with me happy and that I consider reasonable to their reply. 1) I'll take a video of the problems I'm having with the bad Aero BCG and demonstrate that the good, identical Aero BCG solves that problem, 2) they can tell me their inspection process and I'll use my tools to provide that data to them before getting a guaranteed replacement and returning it if they still want it, 3) receive assurances that they will replace the bolt before returning it for their follow-on QA/QC inspection process. All of those alternatives seem very reasonable to me, and prevent me getting taken advantage of. Looking for feedback on these thoughts.

A fourth alternative, should they reject these alternatives & insist upon their return for inspection without guarantee, goes right in line with making/posting a video here and on youtube. I'll simply move on, buy a JP hardened bolt, see if that fixes the issue as I suspect, document AP's failure here in parts and customer service, and go on about my business relaying this experience with video evidence to this community & then working with more deserving companies in the future.

In the meantime, I can further test my hypothesis about the bad part by swapping components of the good and bad BCGs out until I find exactly what causes the issue. I'll bet that just swapping the good Aero BCG's bolt with the bad bolt alone out will fix it. Then, I can try swapping the extractor alone, etc... until I've narrowed it down to the exact part that needs modification/repair. This would be interesting and, I think, fun to document here.

Bwahahaha “Here are three things that will make me happy.” You do realize that the Aero in Aero Precision is because the guns stuff is essentially a hobby side business for this aerospace company, right?

“I’ll measure it with my tools and provide you the data?”

If a new bcg fixes the issue, replace the bcg and move forward. Your presumption is that the bcg is faulty. If so, you have a non-working bcg. If you send it back and they say it checks out, it is still faulty in your gun, and you are out shipping cost and time. If you don’t send it back, you still have a faulty bcg.

If you send it back and they say it is fine and want to charge return shipping, tell them to keep it. Meanwhile, you have a funtctioning gun because you already swapped the bcg.

If they say “ah, here’s your problem” and send you a new bcg, you have a spare, or a starting point for a new build.

Or, maybe a new bcg doesn’t fix the issue because there is some other (additional) issue.

This thread is 11 days old. How many bcgs could you purchase with 11 days worth of salary? Life is too short to play fuck-fuck games over a couple hundred dollars.

 

[srt-4_uk]

If it's anything in the bcg, it's going to be in the $50 bolt. The BCG is inert. It's like blaming the upper receiver, it's not really doing anything.

The carrier plays an important role in gas delivery to unlock the bolt. It is definitely doing something. You can have a broken gas key bolt causing a massive gas leak and failing to cycle. And because everyone feels staked bolts are a "must", you'll never know because it looks locked in. Ask me how I know....

 

[sam4886]

Jesus Christ. Talk about a mountain out of a mole hill. They have done nothing but agree with you so far. Send the damn thing in and worst case it will coat you $10 bucks to get it returned, but I seriously doubt they'll charge you.

They asked for your address before they have even seen the thing, not to mention asking for payment. They'll probably send you a new one as soon as the damn RMA says shipped on their end. Lol.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Bwahahaha “Here are three things that will make me happy.” You do realize that the Aero in Aero Precision is because the guns stuff is essentially a hobby side business for this aerospace company, right?

“I’ll measure it with my tools and provide you the data?”

View attachment 8009655

If a new bcg fixes the issue, replace the bcg and move forward. Your presumption is that the bcg is faulty. If so, you have a non-working bcg. If you send it back and they say it checks out, it is still faulty in your gun, and you are out shipping cost and time. If you don’t send it back, you still have a faulty bcg.

If you send it back and they say it is fine and want to charge return shipping, tell them to keep it. Meanwhile, you have a funtctioning gun because you already swapped the bcg.

If they say “ah, here’s your problem” and send you a new bcg, you have a spare, or a starting point for a new build.

Or, maybe a new bcg doesn’t fix the issue because there is some other (additional) issue.

This thread is 11 days old. How many bcgs could you purchase with 11 days worth of salary? Life is too short to play fuck-fuck games over a couple hundred dollars.

agree, this is whole thread is ridiculous with OP being half retarded here. Send it back, fix yourself it's that's simple.

 

[Praetorian_6]

'preciate the support, constructive feedback, contrarian thoughts, and even the name calling from those missing a chromosome! This is far from a mountain to me, and I already laid out how to prevent that. I definitely don't see anything retarded about wanting a weapon entirely purchased from one company to work. Nevertheless, I appreciate some of the feedback, the constructive stuff, received from you fellas. The thoughts on the gas block, the bolt, and the funny comparison to identifying the problem is somewhere under the hood! Good stuff! We'll get it narrowed down.

 

[hlee]

Aero is not a fly by night company. They’re not looking to take advantage of you.

1. A video demonstrating the problem doesn’t allow for root cause analysis of the problem. It needs to actually be inspected.

2. Aero is an aerospace manufacturing company that also makes gun stuff. They’re not going to trust the measurements of Joe-Blow in his garage.

3. Assuring that something will be replaced before it is inspected is not how troubleshooting and customer service works, or should work. Yes, some companies have a ‘whetever, forever, warranty’ (Vortex, for example) but they are not replacing a component of a DIY system that could literally blow up in your face. (And, Vortex would probably balk at sending out a replacement erector.)

4. Moving on is a reasonable alternative. The first in your post. The other reasonable alternative is to return the bcg to Aero and let them do their thing with it and determine what (if anything) is wrong with it.

Making a video to post and shame (?) Aero is a Karen move for a number of reasons. The primary reason is that you don’t know the cause of the issue. Bad gas rings, bad extractor, poor staking on the gas key, poor gas key alignment. Insufficient, or too much, tension on the extractor from the extractor spring. There are several little parts that come along with the bcg. Swapping in a complete unit just says that something in that system isn’t right, but doesn’t say what. The second reason is that Aero isn’t going to care. The third is that no one here is going to care either.

But, there is a guy on the YouTube that does bcg inspections. School of the American Rifle. If Aero returns your BCG without repair or replacement, and it continues to malfunction in your gun, contact him and send it for his inspection. He has a following and has already developed a reputation. His video inspection will carry more weight than anything you will produce.

That said, not sending the bcg back because they didn’t make a commitment to replace the item without question is a bit like not going on a first date with a girl because she won’t commit to sex beforehand.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

This is why people who don't understand the platform should not try and build guns.

They don't know what they don't know.

Imagine how many emails, calls and bitchy customers a company like Aero has to deal with on a daily basis due to their ignorance and inability to not only build a rifle from components, but properly diagnoses issues. Its probably 10-1 user error vs actual defective part, and that is knowing areo does have QC issues and is not immune from sending out bad parts. You get people like this who clearly do not understand the platform but demand replacement when they can't even figure out what the actual issue is.

Just because AR's look like Legos and snap together, doesn't mean they will work flawlessly. Its even more severe with large frame AR's. There are thousands of variables, different prints, tolerances, finishes ect and people expect everything to just work....LOL

 

[Praetorian_6]

Despite all of the brilliance in this thread, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the problem by process of elimination when I have the spare parts and have the interest in doing it, fellas. I've got the $$ and talent to fix this problem for myself with or without AP's help, and with or without yours. It's not that complicated. I welcome those who are trying to be helpful. To those who aren't and choose to remain... I think you guys should stay, pound sand, and keep watching while crying about the way I choose to handle it.

 

[Precision Underground]

It sounds like they’re offering to pay for shipping so they can inspect the part. Considering the part is coming close to two years old I’d say that’s about the best answer you could hope for. From their point of view they don’t know if you’re legit trying to make a rifle run after almost two years or if you’re a shady person trying to get a new BCG for free. My guess is when they get it and see that it is in fact a fairly new BCG made by them and you have an invoice matching it they’ll get you going one way or another.

On another note- Did you try putting that BCG in the other M5s you said you have? Did you try putting the BCGs from the other M5s in the rifle with issues or did you just try the spare? That would go a long way to narrow down whether it’s for sure the BCG or if it’s a tolerance issue somewhere else in the rifle that is not playing well with that specific BCG.

 

[SpeedyR]

2 year old used part and you want them to replace it without even inspecting it?

Unless you have disassembled it and tested the various components of the BCG to see what part is actually not working I'd say that the best course of action is to send it back, have them test it, or possibly they will just replace it as it's not worth their time to actually do all the testing of the components.

I do some work for a company in the industry and I would guess that 80% of the returns we do are caused by either customers not having a clue, or bad batteries. But the first step is always to get the product in hand to see what's going on before we make any promises to a customer.

 

[Praetorian_6]

It sounds like they’re offering to pay for shipping so they can inspect the part. Considering the part is coming close to two years old I’d say that’s about the best answer you could hope for. From their point of view they don’t know if you’re legit trying to make a rifle run after almost two years or if you’re a shady person trying to get a new BCG for free. My guess is when they get it and see that it is in fact a fairly new BCG made by them and you have an invoice matching it they’ll get you going one way or another.

On another note- Did you try putting that BCG in the other M5s you said you have? Did you try putting the BCGs from the other M5s in the rifle with issues or did you just try the spare? That would go a long way to narrow down whether it’s for sure the BCG or if it’s a tolerance issue somewhere else in the rifle that is not playing well with that specific BCG.

I agree, though I don't think one who buys 5 rifles and multiple other parts who files a single warranty claim in 2+ years fits the profile of a shady guy taking advantage, either. So, I'd argue that context matters. I'm sure that goes in one ear and out the other of some of the troublemakers in this thread, but I would think to a company an already proven repeat customer without any negative history might be someone to put a little faith in.

Yeah, Hecouldgoalltheway's tolerance stacking comment gave me the idea to put it in another rifle. I haven't done so yet, and I have only tried the spare. I appreciate the advice and will try both ideas out.