Aguila SSS 60 grain rounds

[boisepaw]

Anyone have any experience with this? I have...believe it or not...10 bricks of this stuff that came to me quite serendipitously. Now I'm trying to figure out what to do with it. Supposedly it hits hard. I hear it is hard to stabilize. Anyone with successful real world experience with this round? What gun, what distance, what purpose?

I just got a Volquartsen 1:9 barrel for a Ruger 10-22 that I’m waiting to try out.

I only have 4,980 rounds of it left to shoot so give me your feedback and ideas ASAP because I'm bored...

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I've shot a bunch of it. 9 twist will do well. 16 Twist past 50yds it starts opening for me . Out of a S&W 22 compact pistol to 35 yds, it does will. Due to the short case with a can on it carbons the chamber, an if not cleaned every so often issues happen with longer case ammo.

 

[sharpshot50]

The VQ 1:9 barrel should stabilize them, but my experience with that exact setup was that the ammunition sucks and shoots about 2 moa at 50 yards on an average day. I could occasionally group tighter, but usually not much tighter, and sometimes worse. To contrast that, I have a VQ standard 1:16 barrel that will group Wolf MT/ME at or under 1/2 moa at 50 yards and pretty much anything I feed it at or around 1 moa at 50.

My experience is from around 2005 or so, though, so it's been a while.

 

[Merlin O]

3 different Anschutz, a Uberti 1866 and several Marlin 39A's. Nope.

 

[justin amateur]

Aguila does not have the quality control in place to produce consistent trajectories.
Take a close look at those cartridges and you can see the problems. Dents, dings, distorted drive bands,
irregular seating and sloppy crimp lines. Chronograph numbers confirm the lack of consistency.
That's why the price is low compared to actual match grade ammunition.
Aquila makes hunting and plinking rimfire ammo, no matter what they print on the label.
Use it at distances of 100 feet or less and it's adequate.

 

[MarinePMI]

That ammo won't work in a 10/22. The case is too short, and the delayed blow back action (in conjunction with the short case) causes inconsistent pressures as the bolt unlocks while the powder is still being ignited.

I worked with Green Mountain Barrel Company trying to get it to work (circa 2001 or so). We did everything from bolt retardation to back boring the muzzle/crown 9 inches. Nothing helped much, while remaining functional. It did however, end up being the reason 16 HB barrels became so popular and available. Up until this set of experiments, no one even considered a 16" heavy barrel. Our testing/prototyping ended up showing better accuracy and handling with the 16" HB, so it wasn't a total loss.

This ammo was made for the Poseidon rifle, and IIRC, was used by the IDF for putting down Palastinian watch dogs before a breach. It was a very unique approach to the problem. It's been awhile, but I'd bet Centurion (US Aguila company in Helotes, Tx) still has at least one Poseidon rifle in their ballistics lab. They're pretty rare rifles (obviously) due to their intended use and ammunition.

At any rate, good luck, but I doubt you'll have much success.

P.S. Try shooting them in a 10/22 in the dark. Watch the fireball come out of the ejection port. Don't try this as a lefty...

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Before I changed the barrels in both 10-22's they operated shot w/o issue. They would not stabilize the 60 grain though. Changed both barrels with These an have never looked back. If you don't make other changes they are louder than std sub 40 grs. That 60 gr does add an advantage in a pistol vs std sub 40's, but not near as good as the CCI Velocitor, or Aguila Interceptor. The latter will not go SS for me until down below 62* F

 

[RTH1800]

PM sent to OP.

 

[boisepaw]

Before I changed the barrels in both 10-22's they operated shot w/o issue. They would not stabilize the 60 grain though. Changed both barrels with These an have never looked back. If you don't make other changes they are louder than std sub 40 grs. That 60 gr does add an advantage in a pistol vs std sub 40's, but not near as good as the CCI Velocitor, or Aguila Interceptor. The latter will not go SS for me until down below 62* F

VERY interesting and inexpensive solution. Pardon so many questions but what do you use it for? Exceptional accuracy at some distance? Varmints? For what purpose does it excel in your experience?

 

[boisepaw]

VERY interesting and inexpensive solution. Pardon so many questions but what do you use it for? Exceptional accuracy at some distance? Varmints? For what purpose does it excel in your experience?

I'm a sucker for unique firearms/ammo applications...like the really beat up Remington 1100 bought at a garage sale for $75 that outshoots a $1000 Citori on a sporting clays range. That kinda thing. "Who'd have thought of that unique performance in that firearm?"

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Exceptional accuracy at some distance? Varmints?

No they will not equal other ammo in accuracy, no matter distance but they put more energy on target if your trying to drive deep into a vital spot. The CCI Velocitor, or Aguila Interceptor in a rifle are better in down range energy an accuracy, but in a rifle it's a no go for me do to the sonic crack. In my pistol/s using the CCI Velocitor, or Aguila Interceptor neither achieve SS speed, an those give me about the same energy give the 60 gr SSS will. It's all about what you what to achieve on the target. A CCI std Vel, will drop a deer like turning off a light switch w/o issue, but only with the proper shot placement. The 60gr SSS allows deeper vital areas to be targeted than most 40gr subsonic ammo while extending range at the same time. The 60grs work much better for me in bolt guns across the board than the 10-22's for larger meat guns, with much less noise as well. When culling animals, in some neighbor hoods, noise can be an issue. Hence different tools/tactics for the different task/s at hand.

 

[boisepaw]

No they will not equal other ammo in accuracy, no matter distance but they put more energy on target if your trying to drive deep into a vital spot. The CCI Velocitor, or Aguila Interceptor in a rifle are better in down range energy an accuracy, but in a rifle it's a no go for me do to the sonic crack. In my pistol/s using the CCI Velocitor, or Aguila Interceptor neither achieve SS speed, an those give me about the same energy give the 60 gr SSS will. It's all about what you what to achieve on the target. A CCI std Vel, will drop a deer like turning off a light switch w/o issue, but only with the proper shot placement. The 60gr SSS allows deeper vital areas to be targeted than most 40gr subsonic ammo while extending range at the same time. The 60grs work much better for me in bolt guns across the board than the 10-22's for larger meat guns, with much less noise as well. When culling animals, in some neighbor hoods, noise can be an issue. Hence different tools/tactics for the different task/s at hand.

Fascinating. Thanks for the thoughtful explanation. My gun world is, in some respects, quite small...having never been in the military or in law enforcement and having never been a hunter. So much I can learn from others. Thanks!

 

[boisepaw]

Fascinating. Thanks for the thoughtful explanation. My gun world is, in some respects, quite small...having never been in the military or in law enforcement and having never been a hunter. So much I can learn from others. Thanks!

That is to say that my shooting world is very narrowly focused on accuracy...whether it is bullseye competitions or long range precision or breaking a clay target consistently...accuracy is pretty much ONLY what I am pursuing. But obviously there are a lot of other considerations in other situations. And...lest it seem like I am unaware...I am UNBELIEVABLY grateful to those, especially in the military and in law enforcement, who have sacrificed so much for the rest of us. And I am so respectful of those for whom hunting/game management is not just a passion but also a worthwhile pursuit. All of whom...with respect to this discussion...have considerations in addition to my desire for accuracy.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Basic Shooting is the same in all A/O's. Putting meat on the table or culling can be different in all A/O's. Ammo selection is based upon task at hand an the A/O your in, or the rules, guide lines you have to adhere to. Taking a deer in the wild vs a crowded backyard housing development requires different tactics an tools. Having the ability to apply the correct tool with the correct tactic in all a/o's, is a skill-set many never think about before the need is a hand. Learn as much as you can about all aspects of everything you're interested in an think you/yours made need to survive. Life skill-sets are always useful no matter the task, venue or A/O.

 

[Baracuda22]

I used this on my volquartsen 1:9 twist it shoot great up to 50 Yards. I think it also good and more effective on 30 yards for varmint hunting like whistle pigs.I really like this stuff.

 

[boisepaw]

Basic Shooting is the same in all A/O's. Putting meat on the table or culling can be different in all A/O's. Ammo selection is based upon task at hand an the A/O your in, or the rules, guide lines you have to adhere to. Taking a deer in the wild vs a crowded backyard housing development requires different tactics an tools. Having the ability to apply the correct tool with the correct tactic in all a/o's, is a skill-set many never think about before the need is a hand. Learn as much as you can about all aspects of everything you're interested in an think you/yours made need to survive. Life skill-sets are always useful no matter the task, venue or A/O.

so...bottom line...sounds like it is excellent for varmints up to deer in the right hands but a bit accuracy challenged at...let‘s say...more than 100 yards?
any personal defense applications?

 

[justin amateur]

100 yards? Bwah ha ha ha ha!
Sorry, with an ES of more than 100 fps, multiple visible cartridge defects,
anything in excess of 25 yards
y'er just tossing a coin when you squeeze the trigger.

Buy two boxes.
Use a one dot one shot target.
Try and see if you can hit what you aim at.
No putzing around with groups.
See what you can do when attempting rule #1.
Rule #1? Hit what you aim at.

I gave it a try, twice, Aguila 60 grain SSS reeked.

 

[RTH1800]

It shoots fine for me. This is 6 shots fired at 100 yards from Ruger GOVERNMENT MODEL.
Fine accuracy for my use.

 

[justin amateur]

Dayyyyuummmm R, 100 yards with a pistol?
I can't accomplish that at 25 feet. No talent for offhand shooting.


Now for the snarky comments.

1) Nice wallet group, too bad you missed that big black dot.

2) That's 6 shots, what happened to the other 44?
We be discussing ammo quality.
I take it the rest of the box wasn't quite as good?


What happens when you try to hit what you aim at?
Do you punch center? Or a bit left/right/up/down?
When testing ammo quality...

5 shots is a random act of accuracy.

10 shots is a wallet group.

30 shots is a good start.

50 shots is the bare minimum from which to draw a conclusion.

100 shots is what I need to trust my conclusions.

 

[RTH1800]

Dot is one inch. I just guessed at data to get me on target.

Group was supposed to be 5 shots (1/2 wallet group) ? but I cannot focus on sights, trigger and count apparently.

I did not see impacts prior to retrieving target.

It is the only group I shot at one hundred yards. I dialed it in at 25 yards with 3 shots.
I simply do not fire the quantities of ammo you do in testing. (I do shoot varmints every day almost without exception) It goes back primarily to being poor growing up and using my firearms for shooting animals.

I trust my shooting and have sold guns after firing 3-5 shots. Also returned guns to owners I was setting them up for after a few shots as not promising candidates.

This pistol was immediately shipped off for planned extensive modifications. It will do a fine job no doubt.

Besides, I like reading your 100 shot rant! ?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

so...bottom line...sounds like it is excellent for varmints up to deer in the right hands but a bit accuracy challenged at...let‘s say...more than 100 yards?
any personal defense applications?

Deer is a none issue with it,... but only if done properly,,,, an yes there are many PD an other options depending barrel length. People who do not know a animals anatomy an can't place a shot properly, have to use a much bigger weapon to complete the task. That little 60 gr will kill much bigger animals than most even consider, one of the reasons many keep it stocked deep. Paper numbers are just that, real field performance is the true Sayer.

 

[justin amateur]

I trust my shooting

I trust my shooting too, R.

Off a bench....with a heavy rear bag...and an F-Class bipod...with a 32x scope...and all I touch is the trigger.

Otherwise the results won't be based on the ammo, it'll be my less than stellar skills causing spread.

 

[RTH1800]

I am only interested in testing the complete field system which includes me. Different goals require different testing setups.

 

[Strykervet]

So those rounds are supposed to be used in a barrel with the appropriate rifling, what, 1/7 or something? I used to know. It's also supposed to have a different chamber and leade if not mistaken.

Whatever you do don't use 'em in a can with a regular barrel. They can wobble before they stabilize or even keyhole (I had a rifle that just keyholed the fuckers). IMO the best Aguila ammo by far was the Colibri. Only because it was fun, quiet and you could shoot your rifle in the back yard.

Most folks say the stuff is useless and can you think of anyone, say James Bond or Mossad maybe, using this shit in their assassination pistols in the field? Nah, didn't think so. Plus it has "sniper" in the name, that's a dead giveaway.

But having tons of the shit may make it worth buying a cheap barrel to sling 'em from a 10/22 or Mk2 and if you wind up with a free can from a BOGO sale this summer, well, try it out.

 

[RTH1800]

Strykervet,

Did you see my group above? A pistol that shoots like that with the high energy of the 60 grain bullet is not useless to me. And trust me, this stuff gets used in the field a lot more than you apparently think.

Proper twist rate appears to be from 1/13-1/15. The faster twist seem to have issues with 'Stripping" of bullet by rifling.
I am sending a 14 twist Bartlien to LRI this week. The pistol above has a 15" twist and obviously handles the 60 grain ammo well.

 

[Blaster7Romeo]

I have used that ammo to kill many critters.. never realy shot groups with it after I zeroed. Never had any function problems with an M&P .22, 10/22 or Ruger pistol.. all shooting is with a suppressor quet death in my savage bolt gun..

SO. PM if you want to sell at a good price lol

 

[4040peters]

Anyone have any experience with this? I have...believe it or not...10 bricks of this stuff that came to me quite serendipitously. Now I'm trying to figure out what to do with it. Supposedly it hits hard. I hear it is hard to stabilize. Anyone with successful real world experience with this round? What gun, what distance, what purpose?

I just got a Volquartsen 1:9 barrel for a Ruger 10-22 that I’m waiting to try out.

I only have 4,980 rounds of it left to shoot so give me your feedback and ideas ASAP because I'm bored...

I shoot a lot of this stuff. I purpose-built a Volquartsen Summit with a Tactical Solutions 16" 1:9 twist barrel just for this ammo. Topped with a 1 MOA red dot and tipped with a SilencerCo Sparrow suppressor, its a small game ender. at 50 yards, it will shoot 2 MOA all day long and 1 on a good day.

 

[4040peters]

Aguila does not have the quality control in place to produce consistent trajectories.
Take a close look at those cartridges and you can see the problems. Dents, dings, distorted drive bands,
irregular seating and sloppy crimp lines. Chronograph numbers confirm the lack of consistency.
That's why the price is low compared to actual match grade ammunition.
Aquila makes hunting and plinking rimfire ammo, no matter what they print on the label.
Use it at distances of 100 feet or less and it's adequate.

I couldn't disagree more. I have fired 5--6 thousand 60 grain SSS subsonic and 40 grain HP subsonic bullets from Aguila and never seen a dented case or damaged bullet. As far as constancy goes, I can usually shoot a few 1 moa groups at 50 yards and always within 2 moa, and that's with a red dot. I have also had fewer misfires with Aguila than any other brand, except for top-tier match ammo like Eley, Lapua, or Fiocchi.

 

[FuhQ]

Before I changed the barrels in both 10-22's they operated shot w/o issue. They would not stabilize the 60 grain though. Changed both barrels with These an have never looked back. If you don't make other changes they are louder than std sub 40 grs. That 60 gr does add an advantage in a pistol vs std sub 40's, but not near as good as the CCI Velocitor, or Aguila Interceptor. The latter will not go SS for me until down below 62* F

Same here. Been shooting them for almost 20 years... No issues in my 10/22, or my Kimber .22LR conversion for my 1911. Cycled just fine. Stability might be lacking, but they did cycle just fine. I still got a box or 2 of them laying around somewhere, I think I bought them back around 2005/2006. Haven't bought any since. Because since then, Gemtech, CCI, Federal, and many others started making good subsonic .22LR ammo that was full-length case, and stable in a standard 1:16 twist.

 

[Anb618]

I actually really enjoy shooting the 60gr SSS out of my MkII Govt Target, but I haven’t found any in a few years. Have used it with great success for short range raccoon control at my mom’s place. Accuracy level is complete shit in everything I’ve ever shot it through except that MkII, but it mag feeds, it’s accurate enough to play with on 25/50/100yd steel, and it’s crazy quiet (being in a state that won’t allow me to own a suppressor).

 

[straightshooter1]

Hmmm??? I guess some people are more easily satisficed???

There're more concerning issues with Aguila ammo than just dents and dings. Here's a little data I've collected since 2013 by different shooters in differed guns:

 

[justin amateur]

I have fired 5--6 thousand 60 grain SSS subsonic and 40 grain HP subsonic bullets from Aguila and never seen a dented case or damaged bullet.

You haven't been looking at those cartridges then 4040.
Aguila does not appear to have the ability to assemble 22lr without getting something wrong.
Every box I've purchased has shown problems ranging from the dents and dings on the nose,
damaged or asymmetric drive bands, poor seating, variations in seating depth,
bullet material compressed down past the crimp onto the brass and out of spec cartridges.
Some cartridges slip into the chamber with no effort, others won't seat due to oversized bullet diameter.
Chrony numbers in excess of 200 fps tell me they have problems with primer/powder amounts.
It's hunting and plinking ammo never intended for precision shooting.

Images below from a websearch of reviews and retail sites

Nope, never gonna sell me on the idea those are well made cartridges.

 

[RTH1800]

Those criticizing the Aguila 60 grain load are missing the point. It’s virtue is not and was not intended to be stunning accuracy. It’s virtue is extreme low report and stunning penetration.

It’s a large critter killer. Accuracy is quite good enough.

 

[justin amateur]

RT, what I'm missing is what I was aiming at.

And yes I agree, for close range use it's more than adequate.
As I've commented previously....hunting and plinking ammo.

 

[sparky702]

I have an old marlin model 60 with the micro groove barrel and it shoot's the 60 grain very well .They also shoot good out of my browning buck mark .

 

[MarinePMI]

My God, talk about necro'ing a thread...

I'll make no comment on the current ammo being made.

 

[Deodand]

This motivated me to dig out a probably two decade old box of this ammo.

I gave it a go at 50 yards from my Bergara B14R. 10 rounds into about 2.5". Not stabilized, all of the holes are elongated.

14 rounds registered on the chronograph:
High 942 FPS
Low 896
Average 914
SD 12

 

[MarinePMI]

This ammo was made for a special purpose; putting down guard dogs before a breach (not in this country BTW). It requires a fast twist barrel, and performs best in a bolt action rifle (unless you have one of the rare Poseidon rifles that were specifically made for this ammo). Hakko used to make scopes with reticles calibrated for this ammo, that went with the rifles.

The gentleman who came up with this ammo, was a genius, but has sadly passed from COVID. Hellava guy...

 

[rhsc]

Anybody tried this ammo in an AR with the CMMG .22LR conversion bolt? If (maybe a big if) it functions reliably, it could be a way to turn your standard AR into a quieter, short-range varmint control gun.

 

[MarinePMI]

I doubt it would work, as most of those are a blow back design. As such, the short case of the SSS allows gas to escape out the ejection port before the ignition and gases have gone out the front. It results in erratic velocities, and little fireballs coming out the ejection port. The priming mix burns your eyes as well (ask me how I know).

Again, this ammo was designed for a specific purpose and rifle. It may work well in some other (bolt) rifles, but in semi-autos it is definitely doubtful.

 

[RTH1800]

It works great in my Ruger government model. No issues over a few thousand rounds.

 

[db2000]

Runs FA in 12.5” BA with CMMG conversion kit. Fun.

 

[MarinePMI]

It works great in my Ruger government model. No issues over a few thousand rounds.

Yeah, during testing we saw some older Rugers worked with it. Modern ones, not so much. The more custom they were (radius'ed bolt rear, jeweled bolt, lightened hammers, etc.) the worse they ran with this ammo. It all had to do with timing...

Runs FA in 12.5” BA with CMMG conversion kit. Fun.

Your short barrel is likely why; less barrel time.

 

[Deodand]

I think this lot of Aguila SSS is the actual > 20 year old ammo I mentioned in my post above. I came across it yesterday in my safe.

Out of the Lothar Walther barrel on my Tikka T1x it shot 10 rounds into about an inch at 50 yards. All holes appear round, bullets stabilized.

The chrono picked up 13 of the 15 rounds fired.

High: 946 fps
Low: 895
Average: 925
ES: 51
SD: 15

 

[rich56]

Anybody tried this ammo in an AR with the CMMG .22LR conversion bolt? If (maybe a big if) it functions reliably, it could be a way to turn your standard AR into a quieter, short-range varmint control gun.

I tried this ammo in a RRA 24” 1/8” twist Varmint AR with a military conversion.
Don’t remember details but at 25yds accuracy was too poor for meaningful practice and at a indoor range the acid smoke coming out of the chamber was burning my eyes. I’ll assume the smoke was because of the short case clearing the chamber whole pressure was still high

 

[MarinePMI]

I tried this ammo in a RRA 24” 1/8” twist Varmint AR with a military conversion.
Don’t remember details but at 25yds accuracy was too poor for meaningful practice and at a indoor range the acid smoke coming out of the chamber was burning my eyes. I’ll assume the smoke was because of the short case clearing the chamber whole pressure was still high

And also why you got poor accuracy. The chamber pressures were not stable/consistent when extraction occurred. Same issue with firing the SSS in a 10/22 (or any blow back/delayed blow back); the bolt will need to be retarded/delayed to get any decent accuracy.

 

[obx22]

Tested in
Win 52C
Rem 40X
Rem 40XB
Cooper 36
KDF K22
Walther Sportsmodle Meisterbusche
Heckler & Koch 270
Rem 504 sporter
Sako P94S Range, Hunter, Varmint barrels
T/C Contender .22Match Super 14 & 16
Marlin Papoose (blued)
Ruger 77/22 (stainless)
At least 10 different Ruger 10/22s of various configurations
No redeeming qualities. No accuracy, would not stabilize in half rifles tested.
Used remainder of bricks for barrel slugging, they actually work great for that purpose.

 

[MarinePMI]

Tested in
Win 52C
Rem 40X
Rem 40XB
Cooper 36
KDF K22
Walther Sportsmodle Meisterbusche
Heckler & Koch 270
Rem 504 sporter
Sako P94S Range, Hunter, Varmint barrels
T/C Contender .22Match Super 14 & 16
Marlin Papoose (blued)
Ruger 77/22 (stainless)
At least 10 different Ruger 10/22s of various configurations
No redeeming qualities. No accuracy, would not stabilize in half rifles tested.
Used remainder of bricks for barrel slugging, they actually work great for that purpose.

Not to be a smart ass, but it would seem you spent a lot of ammo testing something that shouldn't have worked regardless. These were designed for a 1-9 twist barrel. Not sure if those listed had that and were not semi-autos, but, well....

 

[obx22]

Not to be a smart ass, but it would seem you spent a lot of ammo testing something that shouldn't have worked regardless. These were designed for a 1-9 twist barrel. Not sure if those listed had that and were not semi-autos, but, well....

When the ammo was first released into this country, plenty of folks “claimed” fine accuracy in 16 twist barrels. As such I was in the habit of testing in as many firearms as I could reasonably field in a days shooting. If it had even marginally met my accuracy standards it would have been labeled for that specific firearm.
In my book animals deserve our best efforts, I’ll not use that on paper, much less fur.
But that’s me.

 

[RTH1800]

Sorry it does not work for you. It is stunning in my pistol.