AI AE action in a Manners...yes, let's talk about it again.

D

dms416

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 12, 2014
1,215
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Central IL
#1
Yep, I posted an inquiry about it years ago. Then there was the Gradous? AW in a Mcmillan thread that vanished. And all these gems too:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/ai-in-a-mcmillan-or-manners-stock-questions.55358/
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...uying-an-ai-ae-mki-as-a-doner-action.6313256/
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/ai-ae-mark-iii-in-a-fiberglass-stock.177711/

I want to hear some thoughts on this line of thinking:

So, traditionally, people thought you could remove the action and have a gunsmith work some voodoo on maybe some custom bottom metal and recoil lug and possibly drill the receiver behind the recoil lug. I set up an AE next to an Impact and you can note the spacing, of both sets of action screws. Could you get lucky an line it up with some bottom metal?...maybe. Would it feed?...I doubt I would be that lucky.
IMG_4017.JPG


But what about this?

Lets just say you harvest part of the existing chassis as well. In a sense...make it its own "mini chassis". Could one not merely use the portion inside the blue tape (or more), inlet the stock for it and bed it in and bolt it from the left/right sides like a Manners mini chassis? Overall thickness (outside to outside) of the chassis is 1.25".
@RobertB, think there's enough meet in a Manners to do that?

Thoughts?

IMG_4018.JPG


Sorry, but I just can't get this monkey off my back re: and AI/Manners hybrid
 
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#2
Sounds like you have the plan already, just need to... Buy a flat top mcmillan/manners, cut up your AI chassis, inlet stock and let us know how it goes.

I'm sure once it's been done others will follow.
 
#4
Definitely following this mad science project. Curious to know if this works... surely it’d work for an AT, not that I have uhm... ever considered it...
 
#6
The relatively small bearing surface on the recoil lug might make bedding that and the rear action screw quite critical. If it were mine to do, I would take a hard look at making some custom pillars to bed into the stock.

Otherwise, have fun.
 
#8
If you cut the center section out and use it is a chassis, what are you going to do about a trigger guard? IMO it’s going to look like shit unless you develop a bottom metal. Not impossible, but more trouble than it’s worth.

Why not just get a good aftermarket action and drop it in and forgo the hodgepodge crap?
 
#9
redneckbmxer24 said:
If you cut the center section out and use it is a chassis, what are you going to do about a trigger guard? IMO it’s going to look like shit unless you develop a bottom metal. Not impossible, but more trouble than it’s worth.

Why not just get a good aftermarket action and drop it in and forgo the hodgepodge crap?
Click to expand...

A trigger guard wouldn't be difficult to fabricate. Hell, I'd pay to have the bottom metal done if I could get someone with some sway to do it. 95% sure this "project" will go no further than this thread anyways.

Why? Because every time I've gone that route it's been one expensive disappointment after another. The absolute worst was the Tempest build I did a few years back (ignition problems, mangled brass, bolt coating/finish was damn near non existent when I took delivery from GAP, etc.)...A $6k waste of time, that thing was.

That Impact you see in that first pic is a final effort to get something that doesn't suck or doesn't cycle like a tin can caught in a rusty gate. So there ya go.
(NOTE: to any that just read that last line and thinks to post: "I use (or) {blank} uses (or) you should try: 'xyz' action". Spare us both)
 
#10
Is it that you just don't care for AI stocks?

That Impact you see in that first pic is a final effort to get something that doesn't suck or doesn't cycle like a tin can caught in a rusty gate. So there ya go.
(NOTE: to any that just read that last line and thinks to post: "I use (or) {blank} uses (or) you should try: 'xyz' action". Spare us both)
Click to expand...
True dat!
 
#12
Well the Tempests suck, there’s a reason nobody runs them and most choose Impact, Defiance, Surgeon, and so forth. An impact certainly doesn’t feel like a tin can though, they’re extremely smooth right out of the gate and even better after you run them dry for a couple hundred rounds and then lube them up. It still won’t feel like an AI though. I love AI’s but there are other good actions too.

I know a guy with a CNC mill that takes on projects like this, I’m actually picking up a prototype part from him tonight. It will cost you just like it would from any machinist and there’s no guarantee that the end product is going to work 100% unless you first deliver him a fully inletted stock and the action. You also need to be prepared for a one off part like this to cost you at least a grand to develop.

At the end of the day you can probably buy a new AX and a optic for what putting a AE in a McMillan and it working right will cost you. Or two AT’s in MPA chassis.
 
#13
Yeah...broke the cardinal rule: "Never be first" on that action.

Well here's to hoping I got it right this time. Pretty much cut the field down to the Impact when a match opened up last year with a downpour and the function/cycling was telling.

Figured it'd be a cool $1k. Then there's probably a sort of a chicken and the egg thing. Can't fabricate until the stock's done; can't do the stock until we have the bottom metal.
 
#14
McMillan or Manners is going to want the action AND bottom metal to run an inlet, you definitely aren't going to get those guys to wing it on a bottom metal profile. Even with the action and bottom metal in hand I'm sure they have a setup fee.

Is it really worth it to you to end up with the $$ in this thing that it's going to cost? That's what you need to ask yourself because once you write the first check there's really no turning back at that point.
 
#15
redneckbmxer24 said:
McMillan or Manners is going to want the action AND bottom metal to run an inlet, you definitely aren't going to get those guys to wing it on a bottom metal profile. Even with the action and bottom metal in hand I'm sure they have a setup fee.

Is it really worth it to you to end up with the $$ in this thing that it's going to cost? That's what you need to ask yourself because once you write the first check there's really no turning back at that point.
Click to expand...

I was thinking you would have to start with a flat top. Have a smith create the custom inlet. Get the pillars and depth set correctly. Then the bottom metal can be created... no?
 
#16
However IF someone did it and got it all correctly setup & measured out so that others could buy the stock & some parts needed to finish the build, I do think there would be a fair bit of a market for it. You might even find a lot of folks interested in the older AE models once again to try it.
 
#17
goosed said:
I was thinking you would have to start with a flat top. Have a smith create the custom inlet. Get the pillars and depth set correctly. Then the bottom metal can be created... no?
Click to expand...

I see no reason why it couldn't be done either way. Getting the Bottom metal done first and having McMillan do the inletting would be the cleanest install most likely.

W54/XM-388 said:
However IF someone did it and got it all correctly setup & measured out so that others could buy the stock & some parts needed to finish the build, I do think there would be a fair bit of a market for it. You might even find a lot of folks interested in the older AE models once again to try it.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt it. The cheapest AE's I've seen sell were some beat up PD trade ins and they cost as much as the good aftermarket actions. Most AE's now bring $1800 for a well used MK1 non folder and go up to $3K for a MK3 folder in great shape. The factory chassis would have zero value, and the barrel would have minimal value ($200-$250 for a used AE barrel). Then there's the fact that the AE action would have ZERO warranty, and good luck getting AI to sell you an extractor, ejector, or god forbid a bolt head or ring if you ever need it. You might be able to talk a vendor into getting you one but when I wanted to bush my AXMC bolts and get a couple extra firing pins to have turned down at the same time it was a no go, I couldn't beg anyone to take my money and deliver a firing pin. If you have a little part fail you're going to have a REALLY expensive paperweight unless you have that made and hardened too, lots more $$ for one off shit to keep your one off shit going.

No company would ever take that on because there's not many AE's in the wild, and then the people who want to do this stuff to them is even more rare. They also aren't making anymore so you're entirely dependent on the ones in circulation to sell parts.

99% of people buying a high end precision bolt gun are not going to buy an AE in the first place whether they can be modded or not. They also aren't going to pay twice as much for the dated action than what you can buy a custom action for or end up with as much money in a build when it's all said and done as what they can just buy a brand new AX for and have all the benefits of it.

Sorry but it's just not feasible. There's a lot of companies in this industry looking for a way to make a buck and I'm sure some have thought about this, and it hasn't been done for a reason. I can remember people asking the same thing over 10 years ago when AE's were still prevalent, and even then nobody did it.
 
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#18
redneckbmxer24 said:
Well the Tempests suck, there’s a reason nobody runs them and most choose Impact, Defiance, Surgeon, and so forth.
Click to expand...

I have an VERY early Tempest action that scoffs at your statement. Mine has around 7k rounds of live fire and God knows how many cycles of dry fire on it. The only time I have had a malfunction it's been conclusively traced to a bad mag or a bad batch of primers. I also know several people running them (both early and later samples) that have had no issues.
 
#20
Hollywood 6mm said:
I have an VERY early Tempest action that scoffs at your statement. Mine has around 7k rounds of live fire and God knows how many cycles of dry fire on it. The only time I have had a malfunction it's been conclusively traced to a bad mag or a bad batch of primers. I also know several people running them (both early and later samples) that have had no issues.
Click to expand...

The only one I've ever seen being ran at a PRS match I've attended was a stage with one that everyone had to shoot and it was having trouble all day. Glad yours is working for you, but mine and most others experience has not been positive.
 
#21
redneckbmxer24 said:
The only one I've ever seen being ran at a PRS match I've attended was a stage with one that everyone had to shoot and it was having trouble all day. Glad yours is working for you, but mine and most others experience has not been positive.
Click to expand...

Considering I only know of one person that had any issues with theirs (FP assembly came loose) out of the 6-8 people I know running them, I don't see how "most others" is fair. I also find it interesting that you say you have only seen one at a PRS match as a stage gun, as it's rare that I go to a match where there's not at least one other Tempest user in attendence. That could be a difference in regions, however.
 
#22
you could always just use a savage trigger guard from a model 10. Mine was separate from the rest of the bottom metal and just screwed into the stock. I dont think you need to go to a custom/cnc shop just to get a working proto. While i have ZERO experience with a mill/lathe, i'm woodworking literate. I have zero doubt it would be easy to just route out a crappy old wood stock for the square section of chassis you'd cut out, then screw on the savage trigger guard.

Would/could it end up being ghetto? YES. Could it also end up being a clean enough proof of concept that you'd drop the 600-800 on a flat top mcmillan/manners? Possible.
 
#23
Hollywood 6mm said:
I have an VERY early Tempest action that scoffs at your statement. Mine has around 7k rounds of live fire and God knows how many cycles of dry fire on it. The only time I have had a malfunction it's been conclusively traced to a bad mag or a bad batch of primers. I also know several people running them (both early and later samples) that have had no issues.
Click to expand...

I have a newer tempest that has been flawless as well.
 
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#25
Looks interesting, I think it could be done but I don't know that the pillar heights would line up to make the center of bore/top of stock relationship look weird too. You would have to base it off where the trigger needs to go and work from there, the lug is also the front action screw it appears so that is a small job there in itself. Looks cool and I would love to see where this could go!
 
#28
For some closure...it ended like all the other threads of this kind...no fruit to bear. Redneck pretty much called it.

While I did not reach out to all the suggested options, the consensus a few phone calls was a few people had their own ideas but nobody really wanted to one to take the first bite.

Disclaimer: No AE's were harmed or otherwise mangled and it's still in factory condition.
 
#29
If you seriously want to tackle this, and you don’t want to destroy something nice just to see it all fail, here’s my suggestion:
Take your original idea. Mock up that portion of the chassis in CAD and get it printed. Test, measure and re test to make sure everything lines up with the action. Now you can go about getting that mini chassis-ish into something. And you can make additions, revisions, and test each iteration.

If you end up with something viable, now you also have exactly what you need in CAD.

You can also just print a trigger guard from anything ranging from TPU to Inconel and everything in between. A commercial SLS nylon is plenty strong and wouldn’t be overly expensive.
 
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#31
The latest offering from AI seems to possibly have the chassis / action bolted together, I wonder if this would open up any new ideas for bolting it into a different stock? (Of course that is a $9k or so rifle).
 
#32
AvsFan said:
I'm wondering what ever happened with this bad boy? May have been an experimental prototype? It would be awesome if AI ever offered a factory rifle w/a traditional rifle stock!

2aiir1v.jpg
Click to expand...
That's a single-shot action. 284 Win based on the 3rd link I have above. While the thought occurred to me in that it might be fun to push something like 284...6.5x284 or some sort of hod-rodded 6.5x55 where OAL isn't a factor might be neat, it sort of defeats the main benefit of the buttery sweet goodness of the AI repeating action.
 
#33
With a 3d printer and a good CAD program, I dont think it would be impossible to design your own bottom metal and trigger guard. Few attempts and would probably be able to go to a machine shop and have them make you a proper one.
 
#37
not available yet, dont want to give names and get them blasted with calls, but ive seen the 3d cad and know hes just waiting on the machine shop now to get the first one out

but its a buddy/smith who has been working on it in his spare time for the last couple months...he likes the AT, but also loves his McM a5, so hes motivated lol
 
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#38
morganlamprecht said:
not available yet, dont want to give names and get them blasted with calls, but ive seen the 3d cad and know hes just waiting on the machine shop now to get the first one out

but its a buddy/smith who has been working on it in his spare time for the last couple months...he likes the AT, but also loves his McM a5, so hes motivated lol
Click to expand...

Very cool. Any issues with the actual inletting of the stock? Wasn't sure if there was enough width/material to support how large the AT bottom metal is.
 
#39
samb300 said:
Very cool. Any issues with the actual inletting of the stock? Wasn't sure if there was enough width/material to support how large the AT bottom metal is.
Click to expand...

not positive, i didnt help him draw it up at all, but he did mention having to check that and it might be an issue on some stocks...im assuming he got it figured out since hes moving to aluminum from the 3d printed model
 
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#42
Nice. I prefer the chassis myself but I’m really looking forward to seeing how the project shakes out.

If he can make it work for himself work he’ll have a worthless/priceless AT depending on who you ask :LOL:
 
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#44
Just a thought, but the Howa 1500 uses the same style front action screw (threads into the recoil lug.)

Perhaps they are close on dimensions and could be modified to accept AI action footprint. Would take some bedding to fill gaps, but looks close.

Can you send dimensions from back of trigger to center of front action screw, front of mag cut to center of front action screw and rear of recoil lug to center of front action screw, and recoil lug height?

I can check against my Howa stock/action to see how close it would be.

The challenging part would be the rear action screw. It would likely need a small aluminum block with just enough clearance to act like a pillar and accept bedding. Would probably need to be bolted in on sides like the manners minichassis to ensure it stays out.
 
#45
morganlamprecht said:
not available yet, dont want to give names and get them blasted with calls, but ive seen the 3d cad and know hes just waiting on the machine shop now to get the first one out

but its a buddy/smith who has been working on it in his spare time for the last couple months...he likes the AT, but also loves his McM a5, so hes motivated lol
Click to expand...

Well, a year later- what ever happened to this project your friend was working on?
 
#46
man, idk that he ever got one made out of aluminum

ill have to check with him...i know the 3d printed model is sitting on a shelf in his shop, but he hasnt mentioned anything about it since about the last time i posted in this thread
 
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