AI AXMC... .264 Win Mag????

[DP425]

It appears that the .264 Win Mag would run with the .300WM bolt- is that correct? I had planned on getting a 6.5 Lapua barrel for it with .308 bolt, mag-well, and mags... But I'd save a boat load being able to just buy a barrel (like, around $1000 savings). I'd be able to pay for my first 400-500 handloads in savings, and maybe have some left over.

Looking at the BC's for Berger 140's and 230's, and some quick research on velocities, it appears that the .264 WM would be right on the heals, if not slightly ahead of the .300WM, comparing best loadings.

Anyone running a .264 Win Mag? In an AX, or otherwise, care to comment on this idea I'm tossing around? I'm not in any hurry, I just got the rifle two months ago and haven't even started handloading my 500 pc of .300 brass. I'll likely run it with .300 for a while, but I do want to plan out my next steps. .338LM is of course, in the future plans- how can I have a switch barrel rifle capable of taking .338 and NOT make use of it? But that's not high priority.



Anyway, thoughts on .264 in a .300WM AX?

 

[308220]

I dont own an AX, but I do know a 264 WM is badass and will !!!TRUMP!!! a 300 WM. Run some numbers with the Hornady 147 eld BC .697 And yes, they both use the same boltface.

300 might be a little better for shooting a mile? If you shoot that far.

 

[sandwarrior]

The .264 WM is baddass and will outperform a .300WM. However, barrel life is short for the numbers of bullets you put downrange in comps. Much shorter than a .300 Win Mag. Using it for hunting? It's a kickass round, and provided you don't go shooting long strings it will last you.

A lot of people over the years have tried to balance this by going to the 6.5-284. Loaded hot these still eat barrels too. But, you can get decent life and slightly better ballistics out of these than the .260/6.5Cr/6.5x47 if you download them a bit.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

I've never owned one but have built a few over the years. They have their place as a hunting round. A plinker no. Barrel life will be short. 900 rounds tops but it would be fun ride. Kinda like a 7 RUM. Fast and flat.

 

[rope]

Never owned a 264, but shoot 260's and 6.5 saum. How much barrel life would be added to the 264, with using the slower,cooler burning powders like IMR 7977 or H1000?

 

[DetroitRearView]

I thought about it, but have so much fun running my 300Norma 230 otm's same mag and bolt as the 338L, most likely will just do another 300N barrel when needed. I do run the 6.5CM in the axmc, however and it is sweet to shoot

 

[psychosniper]

I've never owned one but have built a few over the years. They have their place as a hunting round. A plinker no. Barrel life will be short. 900 rounds tops but it would be fun ride. Kinda like a 7 RUM. Fast and flat.

THIS

Couldn't have said it any better. You certainly won't be disappointed with the .264 WM. I have the same plans when the LH AXMC is finally in my hands.

 

[DP425]

Hmm. The 6.5-284 doesn't seem to be a great option given the bolt face difference.

I was curious what could be sqeezed out of the .264 WM for barrel life if loaded down a bit. Maybe aiming for 3000fps rather than 3200. Thoughts on that??

The idea of having a 6.5 option that doesn't require a bunch of extra parts and pieces laying around is really appealing.

 

[exhogflyer]

If you loaded it down to, say, 260 Rem specs I'm betting the barrel life would be about the same as that round.

 

[coldboremiracle]

the 264 is a badass for sure, but unless you dont care about spending cash, I dont think I'd do one in an AX just because of the barrel life. Downloading it is silly, and against the point. But if you wanted to use it for an occasional shoot, or hunting, it will serve you very well.

 

[psychosniper]

I can't give a number here. Not much more though. To me, it would not be worth giving up the performance for only a marginal increase in barrel life. I completely agree with you about the appeal of the .264 WM but don't expect much for barrel life unless you load down to 260 Rem velocities and at that point I can't see the .264 WM as a viable option. If extended barrel life from a magnum is that important to you vs long range performance I would not choose a .264 WM. Don't let this deter you from the .264 WM though. It is one hell of a round and for ELR, it won't let you down if taken advantage of. The performance of the .264 WM vs barrel life is well worth it to me.

 

[Long Range 338]

Or 26 Nosler...

 

[niteshooter]

I think your 264 re-barrel idea has merit. It would be the magnum version of the "308/260" switch barrel concept many seem to be fond of.
In regards to ballistic potential I would put the 264 win mag in the same neighborhood as the 6.5 saum.
It also still has a little more factory support on the ammo side. Remington, Winchester, HSM, Nosler. Mostly hunting loads. They are however close in price to 6.5 saum Copper Creek match loads as are the 26 nosler ammo offerings.
But for you current platform and keeping things simple and cost down; the 264 win mag will deliver on performance.
Same bolt face.
Should feed ok from 300WM magazines.
Can resize/neck down 7mm rem mag brass to make 264.
Remington was making the sendero sfII in 264. I'm not sure if they still do.
Barrel life?? Many people are excited about the 6CM but its barrel life isn't exactly stellar. I'm surprised the 264 hasn't gained more popularity recently with all the 6.5 market buzz. With modern powder and bullet combos I think the barrel killer stigma should be left in the 1960's were ever it began.

I'd say do it. I've mulled over a 264WM build myself.
A 264WM and 300WM will cover just about anything you will need to do with a rifle near and way out there. And do it in spades at that.

 

[Siso]

OP, why not a 6.5 SAUM? Close to .264WM velocity with better barrel life. I've heard of others running the 6.5 SAUM in an AXMC, and have thought of it myself.

 

[Statusquo]

Do it. I almost built a .264 last year. Even ordered a barrel from obermeyer. I chickened out at the last minute and went with a 300 only because this rifle will be shot a lot.

Make sure your at least 26" for your barrel.

Also, if you really want a screamer, check out the 6.5 Weatherby Mag or 6.5 STW. Same bolt face.

 

[1badbarrel]

My boss hunts with a .264wm. Uses 7rem mag brass and necks it down. Said it's just the one step. Didn't even need to trim.

 

[DP425]

OP, why not a 6.5 SAUM? Close to .264WM velocity with better barrel life. I've heard of others running the 6.5 SAUM in an AXMC, and have thought of it myself.

Not sure what the bolt face required for that is, but being short action, if need a mag well adaptor and mags. And it wouldn't provide me with any substantial benefit to off-set having the extra mags and mag well adaptor to store... and that's assuming it would run on the same bolt as the .300.

Basically, the most attractive thing about this idea to me, is having to change ONLY the barrel to move to 6.5. Less crap to store and less cash to invest in the option.

 

[CMP70306]

You and I apparently have the same idea, I'm currently running a .300 WM Mausingfield and was looking at getting a 6.5mm barrel to use for target shooting. I started looking into it after shooting 150+ rounds in a 2 day shooting class, even at 20# the 215s at 3000 fps still kick pretty good after an extended prone shooting session.

I looked at the .260 and the 6.5 Creedmoor but with my AICS mags and magnum bolt face it just seemed like the .264 win mag would be a better fit. After all I don't gain any capacity or a shorter bolt throw by switching to the smaller rounds but I can download the .264 to that level while still having the capability of bumping it up to 3000+ for hunting or ELR.

I plan on going with a 22 or 24" barrel as I plan to run it almost exclusively suppressed. Performance will be a little less than a 26" but since I'm downloading it it doesn't make much of a difference.

 

[Statusquo]

If you decide to do it, keep a good record of your round count. In all my research I never found a good 21st century estimate of barrel life.

 

[parshal]

I hunted with a 264 win mag for years. I rebarreled and blueprinted it and took my first mule deer with it. I love that round. However, I decided I wanted to play around with faster and made a 6.5-270 WSM and get a little more velocity. You'll have to reload the 264 due to the expense of factory but at least you have the option to buy some if needed. I run my 6.5 WSM on a long action and it feeds just fine with no mag well spacers. I'm a 6.5 diehard and believe everyone needs to burn up at least one 6.5 barrel!

 

[onlyhedge]

.264 WM should work. I'd say jump straight to the 28 Nosler or a 300 Norma. I run the Norma a buddy is prepping to run the 28 Nosler.

 

[Siso]

Not sure what the bolt face required for that is, but being short action, if need a mag well adaptor and mags. And it wouldn't provide me with any substantial benefit to off-set having the extra mags and mag well adaptor to store... and that's assuming it would run on the same bolt as the .300.

Basically, the most attractive thing about this idea to me, is having to change ONLY the barrel to move to 6.5. Less crap to store and less cash to invest in the option.

You need the 300WM bolt and have of heard people using 300WM magazine. I just tried with a dummy 6.5 SAUM round and 300 bolt and mag and seemed to feed fine. Just letting you know it's an option to research if you wanted. If you aren't concerned with the .264WM barrel life go that route.

 

[DP425]

Some good info. I guess I have plenty of time to toss this idea around and see which way makes the most sense. Seems the .264 WM or the 6.5 SAUM are the most likely leading options.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[Engine 22]

Take a look at the 7mm-300WM, or 7mmPractical. I'm running the 7-300WM and couldn't be happier. I don't shoot it tons as its a hunting rifle, but it seems to fit your criteria very well. Easy to neck down 300WM brass and easy to find a load.
Run the numbers for a 180Hybrid running 3100fps.

 

[TS51]

I have a AX in both 6,5rsaum and 264wm.
rsaum dont feed flawlessly from WM mag, but 264wm do. The RSAUM is very accurate, but i have had some pressure problems. In 264wm i use a 1:9 73cm barrel. Norma brass. 130norma DL 70grs N570 and get 1030m/s. have only shot 350-400 rounds with the 264wm. Sorry for my bad english, i am Norwegian.

 

[Centurion123]

One thing to keep in mind with calibers like the 264WM: Even though the trajectory and drift numbers are awesome, it is still a 140gr bullet which doesn't give the same feedback as a 180+ gr bullet. Both in terms of recoil, which is a plus, but it also much harder to spot at extended distances. If you can't spot your misses, there is no way to correct the 2nd or 3rd shot into the target.

 

[bribri]

I'm thinking of getting a 264WM barrel for my AXMC too. Is anyone willing to share what they are getting for velocity with the 140 hybrids or other VLD bullets. Any load specs would be appreciated too.

 

[Jim Keeney]

I have a .264 Win Mag built on a Badger 2013 from SAC. 28" 8 twist Bartlein. Though I also have an AI AWSM in .300, It will likely never get a .264 barrel. I love the .264 Win Mag and would never steer anyone away from it unless the intent was a long barrel life after long and/or fast strings on a regular basis. This is my 4th .264WM, and my advice is this - Do it, and run it hot, but not hard. Given the case capacity, reduced loads are super inconsistent, and in running low velocity loads you'd be much better served with a short action 6.5. Also, the data I have found in most manuals is kinda crappy, as it is a somewhat forgotten caliber. My load is Nosler/Norma brass, Fed 215M, 142gr SMK, and 80.0gr US869. This gives me 3,370fps and under just 3/4" 5-shot strings for a very flat, forgiving trajectory with amazing ES/SD. My rule of thumb for the .264 is that 200pcs Norma brass once worn out = the barrel life. It's been pretty spot-on so far. 6-7 loads and they are gone, so 1,200 - 1,400 rds and there is nothing left. I had one go south at 830rds before, but that is before I thought outside the box and got away from 4831 or 4350. I have read/heard many people proclaiming US869 to be "WAYYYYY TOOOOO Slow" for the .264, just because it is a .50BMG powder and they had no tried it. Kinda glad I did.

I say go for it, but do yourself a favor a make the barrel on the long to very long side. It likes them that way, and you will, too.

 

[TorF]

The old 6.5mm Rem mag has 6.5-284 ballistics with std mag belted case.

 

[DP425]

It looks very much like this will happen. A friend has a 6.5 barrel he was trying to figure out what to do with, and a TRG that needs a barrel- we bought a reamer and he's going to put the barrel on his TRG. Once it's confirmed to give us what we want, I'll pick up a blank and have him get it spun up for me.

We are aiming for 3100fps out of a 21-23" barrel + can with the 147 ELD. Quickload says this is do-able running H1000.

if it works out, it's going to give VERY nice ballistics.

Running at max load isn't much of a concern when we're only buying the blanks. Cuts the barrel cost down nicely.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Did this ever materialize?

I've been thinking about something like this over the last couple weeks of how to run a 140 around 3150 from my AXMC without running into feeding issues or torching barrels in 500 rounds. I keep coming back to the 264WM and have a barrel in the works. Judging by other data (there's a good bit from LR Hunting forum with 140's) a quality 26" barrel has no issue hitting 3300fps without dancing on the edge of pressure, so just like GAP's 6.5SAUM you'd be shooting reduced charges or much slower cooler burning powders to keep velocity lower. It seems like they do very will with H1000 and Retumbo but I think H50BMG has some merit in a longer tube which I plan to test. Much of this is untested but my theory is that worse case scenario H1000 and Retumbo is what it needs for consistency and a reduced charge may not give the best accuracy and ES/SD. If this proves to be true my solution will be to shorten the barrel until it give approximately the desired velocity with the optimal charge weight, and then fine tune from there.

The first barrel will be 100% trial and error but I think it's worth it to try. If it works and 1200-1500 rounds of barrel life is possible (I absolutely think it is, possibly more) this is a very viable option for the AXMC. I probably wouldn't run it in other guns simply for the reason that you won't have a low profile 10rd mag to feed them.

I also considered other options and my thoughts are below, if anyone has any further input I'd certainly love to hear it.

26 Nosler: This is running in #2 place for me. Same concept as 264WM just a different non belted case. What has steered me away is brass cost. Holy fuck is Nosler proud of their brass for this and IMO their brass isn't all that. I consider that I'm going to have well over $2K into testing this theory running 264WM by time I get the barrel spun up, dies, brass, and enough bullets to torch the barrel, plus any costs associated with possibly shortening the barrel but I've gotta draw the line at their brass prices. Other than that the round should feed great from the AXMC mags.

6.5-284: I'd love for this to work but to get to 3150+ (easily achievable with a 28-30" barrel and mild pressures) you've gotta run LA mags which would require modification to either the 300WM mags or 338LM mags. I mocked up some rounds and tried in the 300WM mags and they are close but will still require some modification to ensure good lip support so that they don't pop up out of the mag. Anyone who has modified feedlips knows that this can be a daunting task to get reliability if it's even attainable. This is my biggest hold up for this option. Other than that it seems great and there's a ton of data out there on this, plus Lapua brass. If AI ever did a factory mag that ran this well I'd absolutely have a barrel spun up.

6.5 SAUM: Back to mag issues. With the long action mags there's a lot of distance between the tip of the bullet to the chamber. Previous experiences lead me to believe feeding won't be 100%, not something I want to chance when dropping a large chunk of change to try out. Short action AI mags have been made to work although they seem to be hit or miss and the AICS single feed mags modified seem to work best. Due to case size I doubt they'd work right in a AW/AX double stack without modification and seems to be all around unproven.

6.5x55SE: Basically the same issues as 6.5-284 and I believe (and so do many BR guys) that the inherent accuracy of the 6.5-284 is near impossible to beat so I'd run it over the x55.

6.5-300WM: Basically a 264WM but with some added hassle of brass prep vs buying factory winchester 264WM brass. Also fully custom dies and reamer.


Is there anything I'm missing? I feel that I've gone over everything pretty thoroughly and keep coming back to 264WM as the most viable option. I have considered stepping up to 7mm but I believe the 6.5 to be the better option as far as recoil to available BC for running the 3150fps speed limit.

 

[parshal]

I ran a 264 WM for a number of years. I'd be surprised if you reliably hit 3300 with 140's. Neither of my two 26" barrels hit over 3200 with Retumbo or 7828. If I were to have a 264 again I'd check out R26. It's my go-to powder for every caliber I own (22, 6 and 6.5). It must be made from unicorn hooves and horns.

I'm running a 6.5-270 WSM in two different long actions. For bottom metal, I'm running Rem BDL and the other is Curtis Customs with their magazine. They had some mags with longer feed lips and I've had zero problems feeding. The BDL took some tweaking of the follower but it reliably feeds. I'm hitting 3200 with 140's with a number of different powders with either one. I was getting 3420 with 130's in the one rifle I tried 130's.

You don't need custom dies for this round. Use a 270 WSM bushing die and swap out bushings. Sizing is done in one pass. I'm using a Wilson chamber seater but you can actually buy a 6.5-300 WSM die set from Redding.

All three 6.5 WSM's I've run have been wicked accurate with very little load development. My 264's took a little more work.

I've built two 6.5 SAUMs for other guys (and have a barrel I've fitted but not used for myself) and both fed reliably in a short action. One used the Magpul Hunter stock and the plastic mags and the other was a Manners mini chassis with AICS mags. I haven't tried them in a long action.

 

[DP425]

I relayed this idea to a friend of mine with a TRG- he ran with it. We split the cost of a reemer. I'll snag a barrel and move over to it next year.

I'm waiting on word back, but if I recall correctly, he's running 21", retumbo, and pushing 140 ELD to around 3100fps. Given PRS velocity limits, this makes one hell of a potent combination in a short package.

Barrel life is not much concern since he's finishing the blanks; cuts cost by about half.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I ran a 264 WM for a number of years. I'd be surprised if you reliably hit 3300 with 140's. Neither of my two 26" barrels hit over 3200 with Retumbo or 7828. If I were to have a 264 again I'd check out R26. It's my go-to powder for every caliber I own (22, 6 and 6.5). It must be made from unicorn hooves and horns.

There's actually quite a bit of data out there from guys running them that support the 3300FPS figure, plenty have done it. Some have even seen 3400FPS in longer barrels. Regardless, I'm after the magic 3150fps which will certainly be achievable with a very reduced load and/or shorter barrel.

I've got no real interest in running anything but Hodgdon Extreme powders and not have to chase velocity with temp changes. I've done that one too many times and don't stray away from the extreme powders unless I absolutely have to. I generally give up some velocity as a result to keep the consistency.

I'm running a 6.5-270 WSM in two different long actions. For bottom metal, I'm running Rem BDL and the other is Curtis Customs with their magazine. They had some mags with longer feed lips and I've had zero problems feeding. The BDL took some tweaking of the follower but it reliably feeds. I'm hitting 3200 with 140's with a number of different powders with either one. I was getting 3420 with 130's in the one rifle I tried 130's.

You don't need custom dies for this round. Use a 270 WSM bushing die and swap out bushings. Sizing is done in one pass. I'm using a Wilson chamber seater but you can actually buy a 6.5-300 WSM die set from Redding.

All three 6.5 WSM's I've run have been wicked accurate with very little load development. My 264's took a little more work.

I've built two 6.5 SAUMs for other guys (and have a barrel I've fitted but not used for myself) and both fed reliably in a short action. One used the Magpul Hunter stock and the plastic mags and the other was a Manners mini chassis with AICS mags. I haven't tried them in a long action

The issue with all of this is we're talking about an AXMC that uses either a double stack double feed LA magnum magazine or a SA double stack double feed AW or AX mag with the adaptor housing. This changes things completely. I highly doubt that a LA double stack mag is going to feed reliably with the rounds jumping that far to the chamber. The SA double stack rounds are completely unproven with the SA magnum rounds, everyone I know who has tried it had problems and it's probably a reason why GAP sets up AICS style mags for their 6.5SAUM's vs modifying AW mags.

6.5WSM would be a viable choice but for these rifles it falls right into the same issues as 6.5SAUM.

I relayed this idea to a friend of mine with a TRG- he ran with it. We split the cost of a reemer. I'll snag a barrel and move over to it next year.

I'm waiting on word back, but if I recall correctly, he's running 21", retumbo, and pushing 140 ELD to around 3100fps. Given PRS velocity limits, this makes one hell of a potent combination in a short package.

Barrel life is not much concern since he's finishing the blanks; cuts cost by about half.

Who did you order the reamer from? Is it a standard 264WM or custom dimensions? What length throat did he spec?

As far as load, how high did he work up and did he find pressure? Do you know what the max velocity was that he saw with what charge? What barrel did he go with?

I was planning at starting at 28" and doing load development from there. Once I get everything in order we could compare data from both and probably figure out +/-50 FPS different barrel lengths will see with a mild charge.

I'm not as concerned with barrel life from a cost perspective as I am from a PITA perspective. Each barrel I've got to tweak the load to it, then after a couple hundred rounds it decides to speed up a bit, have to spot that and make sure everything is still good to go, and then I'm to prime time for shooting until it slows down. If that's in 800 rounds total then I'm not interested. 1200 rounds minimum gives 300 rounds to break in/speed up and get the load developed and then a minimum of 3x 300 round count competitions. That's what I need it to get to be worth my time and I think it's easily doable. This first run will be entirely trial and error and I really have no expectations one way or another, just hopes.

 

[DP425]

Standard .264 reamer, don't really know anymore details than that. I think he's got a little wiggle room on pressure, but prob not a ton. Pretty sure he's keeping a tight tally on his round count to see what the actual barrel life pans out to be.

I'll see if I can send him over here to answer some of your questions.

 

[kwwheele]

"Nasty Nate" has referred me to answer a couple questions.

I have just under 400 rounds thru my 264WM TRG42 and the thing is still shooting fantastic. I used a standard reamer and a Bartlein 1-8.7 twist.

I've cleaned after every round for the first 20, and haven't cleaned since. I will be cleaning it before the next match though.

I went with a 21" barrel so that with a 9" suppressor I kept a pretty short overall length. I thought with that length barrel that I would have to use 123gr ELD's or SMK's to get up towards 3200fps. Which, that was true using H1000. I used Quickload before loading and found velocity to be pretty accurate.

There is no such thing as a free lunch in shooting though, I found H1000 to be very hot, my barrel and suppressor would get very hot to the touch, and the suppressor would be upwards of 350 F.

So, using Quickload, I sought out a lower pressure powder, assuming lower pressures would mean lower temperatures. I looked at dozens of powders, but found that Retumbo was the only one giving me good velocities and low pressures in my short barrel. Retumbo has allowed me to go lower with pressures, lower with heat, AND I'm able to step up to 140's. It should be noted that I did try to get greedy and use the 147's, but found those to give me high pressures (sticky bolt lift).

Here's my developed load:
Hornady brass
71.0gr of Retumbo CCI Large Rifle Magnum
Hornady 140gr ELD
COAL: 3.250"

Result: 3115fps, SD-4

I found that load development was pretty easy for the 264, but this was also my first time using Quickload too.

I've run this gun for all my matches this year and love it. It has a bit more recoil than my 6.5 Creedmoor, but less than a 308. I'm hoping to get around 1200+ rounds thru it, if I can keep the temperature under control. I have a Barrelcool fan to help with that between stages (works fantastic). The TRG is a great package to run this in, however TRG mags are ridiculous priced, and they only hold 7 at a time (Sako kept them flush with the bottom of the rifle). I've also found the belted mag to be finicky feeding, the belt catches on all sorts of shit in the mag. It takes a special touch to load one, but that's easy to overcome.

I hope this helps answer any questions you may have.

-Ken

 

[bribri]

I am currently breaking in a 264WM barrel in my AXMC. It feeds great and with 67 grains of H1000 behind 140 hybrids I'm getting 3100 fps with a 26" barrel. This load is on the milder side. I'll update this thread later when I get more rounds down range.