AIAT in 284 Winchester...now a 6.5x47 Lapua vs 260 Remington question?

[jlficken]

I am looking to find an option for my rifle that will allow me on occasion (very few) to shoot out to a mile. Most of my shooting will be under 1200yds but my friends have 338LM rifles and they want to shoot at a mile sometimes.

I don't want a dedicated rifle that will only be shot a few times a year is there any sense in getting a 284Win barrel for my AIAT and trying out the Hornady 180gr ELD-M bullets? The AXMC would be great but it just costs too much for me to comfortably afford it.

It appears that they will work in the AT/AW mags at 2.950" OAL from what I can find and 2550fps should be a realistic expectation as well. It appears that brass may be a little hard to come by or is there somewhere that I should look besides the normal Midway/Brownell's/etc?

Will it feed well in the AT/AW magazines?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Eagle1899]

An ARC mag may work. But bullets, mag length and powder capacity is going to be the deal breaker with a 284Win. A 6.5 Creedmoor with Warner Flatlines would do it and well.

 

[jlficken]

Bummer.

Yeah the Flatline bullets would be great but at over $1 each I just can't bring myself to buy them.

 

[Eagle1899]

Buying and loading Flatlines is about the same as shooting factory ammo, the difference in performance is worth it for what you'd like to do.

 

[Eagle1899]

Factory 6.5 Creed with 147ELD is about $26 a box plus shipping. The BC of the 147 is impressive but its going a bit slow from a Creed. The Flatline will work https://www.snipershide.com/flatline-projectile-122gr-6-5/

 

[jlficken]

I watched the reviews that Frank did on the Flatline bullets and even he said that he wouldn't use them for plinking which is all I do. I just can't bring myself to spend over $1 per bullet to shoot steel for fun.

As it stands right now I am just going to stick with 308 and just shoot within its limits. With the 178gr ELD-X that appears to be about 1250yds which I am fine with.

Someday I will get a used AXMC or a TRG-42 so that I can shoot further but for now it just isn't in the cards. The SRS A1 did interest me but after the whole MDR debacle I just don't really trust them anymore so I won't be buying any of their products.

 

[Backspace]

No problem getting to a mile with 140s from my 26" 6.5x47 AIAX. Pushes nosler RDFs about 2800 fps. No need for a magnum caliber or special bullet. Take what shoots best in your rifle and see what happens.

https://youtu.be/QM3pP85CLWI

 

[fdkay]

.260 Improved?
may have to modify mags, but you should be able to shoot the hornady bullets fast enough to get you there

 

[jlficken]

I think the 260AI is out since the ribs in the magazine will cause issues I think and I really don't want to modify them.

The 6.5x47 is a possibility but the small primers give me pause as I have a metric shitload of large rifle match primers to use right now. Why go with the 6.5x47 Lapua over the standard 260 Rem when the 260 works perfectly in the AT magazines? It appears that I can get a bit more speed out of the 260 as well no?

 

[Backspace]

260 AI does not feed well from AW mags. 260 will get there no problem and should be able to push a 140 a little faster than the x47. It is all personal choice. If you already have a 260, go with that. The most important thing is going to be an accurate load with low SD/ES.

 

[hollowoutadime]

FWIW, 260 ammo has come down in price a lot. $22.85 a box for Hornady 130 ELDs (outdoorlimited.com). I shot through most of the 3000+ I loaded last summer and found a good backup plan.

 

[jlficken]

Good info on the 260..thanks!

I don't have anything other than 308 right now. I am thinking that I will be going with the 260 when I can find a good deal on a barrel for my AT. I have some 2nds bullets already so that helps and I have powder as well.

My only other thought is to look at the 7mm-08 too since it appears that a 162gr ELD and Varget is a great combo and it has excellent barrel life.

 

[buffybuster]

Some more food for thought on the .284Win. I would think you could get about 2700fps with a 26" barrel with a 180gr bullet loaded to 2.950". I had a 22" barrel .284Win and pretty easily exceeded 2700fps with 168 Bergers loaded to 2.920". Brass was necked up Lapua 6.5-284 brass (ironic). That barrel shot great but too much gun for what I needed. Remember you're going to lose a round or two of magazine capacity with the fatter case.

 

[RyanM]

I have followed your posts about an ATMC and getting a 260 to a mile etc. I recently went down the same thought process as you and was trying to figure out how to push a heavy 7mm fast enough to rival 338 ballistics.

I have an AX and in all honestly I don't think it can be done. A 7mm 08 AI will only push a 180gr at about 2,400-2,500 FPS, a 284 could go faster but to mag feed the heavy bullets would have to be seated really deep into the case and that would also limit case capacity and speed (probably faster than the 7mm-08). I have also heard that there can be feeding issues out of magazines (maybe just internet talk though).

I also thought about a 7MM SAW but WTO would not send the reamer up (Canada) and even then I think the heavy 7mms were only going 2,700 FPS.

I know lots of guys shoot 6mm/6.5mm to a mile or whatever "all the time" but I always wonder what their hit ratio is. Is it windy? How big is the piece of steel? How many shots to get on etc.

Here is my TL;DR - if you want to shoot far a long action is better as you can't beat physics and can only cram so much powder into short action case. My solution was to buy an AI AWSM.

 

[Conrad]

Does it really need to be constrained to mag length if you're laid out prone and taking your time shooting a mile? If you single feed for your ELR loads then that could open up more capacity.

 

[jlficken]

Thanks for the info on the 7mm SAW! I hadn't seen that before and it looks rather interesting.

I do agree that after my research I too have come to the conclusion that no SA cartridge is going to be anywhere close to ideal for shooting at a mile.

I think I will just hold off on doing anything for now and just use smaller targets in the 1000yd-1200yd range to make it harder with the 308 while still shooting within its realistic range.

I will start looking at something like the 7mm SAW though as I like what I am seeing especially the fact that I can use my Varget stash and can purchase standard brass. Since it will feed well in the AT magazines that is one less thing to worry about as well. I don't like that it uses SP but can live with it as long as everything else looks good. I do wonder how standard 308 brass would work though?

 

[RyanM]

Small primers are awesome. I have shot my 6.5X47 in a huge range of temperatures and never have a concern about ignition.

 

[jlficken]

Yeah my main concern is that I have enough match large rifle primers to shoot out multiple 308 barrels and not very many small rifle primers. I hate buying primers and powder as I always seem to fill the hazmat tag

I do have a bunch of Remington 7 1/2 primers though if they would work?

 

[samb300]

Can't believe no one suggested 7 SAUM. 284W in a S/A with huge 180gr's could be frustrating. 7-08 or variant probably doesn't give you much over a 260 (140 vs 168 BC plus speed). In all these mag length and a S/A freebore is going to steal case capacity. At least go with the cartridge with the most boiler room.

Short action AIs don't have magnum bolt faces; they only work with 308-parent case rim diameters.

 

[jlficken]

Short action AIs don't have magnum bolt faces; they only work with 308-parent case rim diameters.

That is exactly right.

I am just going to rock my AT w/ your awesome bipod adapter in 308Win until I can find a takeoff 6.5mm barrel of some sort I think. I loaded up a ladder test for some 178gr ELD-X's to try tomorrow when it is 100F outside and will go from there.

Thanks for all of the advice guys!

 

[Conrad]

The ELDXs BC isn't too shabby. Don't forget I think Frank took his 308 to a mile if not close with the flatlines. Depending on your twist and DA that is another option.

 

[steve123]

I'd can the repeater thing since you'll only being shooting at mile occasionally, and just single load 284 with heavies. That way you'll get more speed along with the high BC. Just have the GS throat accordingly so the longer OACL pops into the action port nicely. You can go longer but it's a pain removing the cheek piece so's you can remove the bolt, iffen you choose not to fire the round, just shooting the round is easy and much more fun, lol.

 

[Conrad]

Think I suggested single loading too further up.....definitely something to think about. Not to mention a powder like reloader 26 could get you some further gains.

 

[Conrad]

That's awesome. RL26 seems to work great in a lot of cartridges especially when pushing heavy for caliber bullets.

 

[3rdfocal]

I'd can the repeater thing since you'll only being shooting at mile occasionally, and just single load 284 with heavies. That way you'll get more speed along with the high BC. Just have the GS throat accordingly so the longer OACL pops into the action port nicely. You can go longer but it's a pain removing the cheek piece so's you can remove the bolt, iffen you choose not to fire the round, just shooting the round is easy and much more fun, lol.

Good idea. Maybe a 280AI? 195's around 2900 fps make a mile easy. Does your AT have a folding stock? Would make it easier to pull the bolt.

 

[steve123]

Good idea. Maybe a 280AI? 195's around 2900 fps make a mile easy. Does your AT have a folding stock? Would make it easier to pull the bolt.

Thanks for the like, Reub.

Then you'd likely have to remove the bolt every time just to get the fired case out. I don't know for sure though, depends on the length of the port. Yep, folding stock would help the situation, still kind of a pain though.

 

[Conrad]

If you're willing to mess with 280 AI then you might as well look at 284 Shehane and keep the OAL a little shorter so you don't have to mess with removing bolts or folding stocks. That would get kinda old but single feeding is simple enough. I don't think there is enough case capacity difference between the 2 to mess with the long action cartridge in a short action.

 

[3rdfocal]

I was bored and curious today so I ran a piece of 280AI brass through my AT to see if it would eject, and it does with no problem. Obviously not even close with a bullet seated, but after firing you will not have to remove the bolt to remove the spent case. There's room for a case about 1/4-1/2" longer than a 280AI to eject. So single loading a long action caliber doesn't seem like a terrible idea if you're gonna be shooting slowly. I've never looked at a 284 Shehane till now, looks like a good option. I used to have a 280AI and it was a great round.

 

[Conrad]

280 AI is a great round and if spent brass will clear the port that definitely makes things easier! Most of the time you're probably going to take the shot and eject the brass as opposed to taking the bolt out etc. sounds like there are some good options.

 

[TorF]

Why not just get another 308 barrel with a twist..
30" barrel with 1-8" optimized for std bullets at max mag col.
This barrel will then also be able to handle single loaded Warner Flatline 198gr at app 2700+fps with a G1 BC of 0.855. Supersonic to app 2000yds.
As a bonus this barrel will shoot great with subsonic 240gr heavies and a can if you want to shoot in your back yard .

The irony is that the US Army could have had the Flatline 198gr 2000yds performance in the old M24 308 long action rifles with just a barrel change and still be able to pull ammo from a M240 in an emergency.

If you have a long 308 1-10" barrel in your AT you should be able to reach 1 mile with the 180gr Flatline single loaded.

 

[jlficken]

The Flatline prices make me cringe honestly. I may just try out the 160gr bullets and see how they do as Lowlight was getting out to 1500yds in his video with ease it appeared.

 

[47chevycoe]

I'm in the same situation as you jlficken. I think what I am going to do, is get a 28-30" 260 barrel and shoot the flatlines. I have plenty of other AI barrels, so it's not like I'm going to shoot a couple thousand flatlines a year. I'm planning on shooting a few hundred a year which somewhat helps the sticker shock of the bullets.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

If I were going to play with the 7mm way out the back of beyond, I'd probably be using a longer barrel chambered in .280 Rem, and shooting an ELD-M of some sort. I've never seriously considered distances beyond 1400yd, and even that is not an easy distance to find for shooting out here in the high desert at 4500-4800ft ASL. After a year around here I'm still looking for a defensible venue beyond 300yd.

For the mile (and I'm assuming your friends have actually achieved 1 mile hits), your friends have it about right. The 338LM or something at least that potent, is going to be a necessity. Now, in my book, that's a dedicated rifle. At least. Actually, you won't be seeing me getting a gleam in my eye for anything more ripsnortin' than that .280 Rem.

Can the .260 (any version) or the 6.5x47 do the mile? I see folks say they can. OK. 7mm-08, not even going to venture the guess. Personally I'm not putting the mile hit on my bucket list. At 71, I may not last long enough. Cash could be an issue, too; not that I wouldn't have it, but that I might not be able to justify the expenditure, even to myself.

Greg

 

[jlficken]

Actually Greg I don't disagree with you. I have decided to just stick with 308Win and move up to something else if/when I really need to. For now the 308 works just fine.

 

[pwhite11798]

Fwiw if your going to shoot to a mile occasionally. Take it from me you will not be in any hurry making those shots. Developing a load longer than mag length would work just fine. I did it for my 30-284 shehane barrel on my short action. It works great. Most likely shooting prone. Good brass is availible. Norma .284 bras is on sale at bullets.com its what I used on my setup. And at 125 for a hundred its not a bad price. I would do it. If I were you. The heck with taking a consensus. Do it and get the experience I guarantee you will learn from it.