AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

[beenjammin]

Well guys.. I just got in from spending the day at the range with these 3 rifles. We set up the oehler chrono and started taking some velcity with some hand loads using all three of these rifles. I have many pics to post, but can say that using the same lotted ammo, same brass , and primers with the same loads from the same despenser, and press that the blaser had the tightest groups of the day, but was also the most finiky to make sure you hold just right to shoot. The sako was the best all a round rifle and My beloved aiaw was the most rugged, but came up short on the shot groupings im sad to say. We used USO bubble levels on all the rifles. The AW had a 5-25x56 S&B, the blaser had a nightforce nxs 5.5-22 npr2, and the sako had a falcon 4-14x. it was really interesting seeing that all 3 rifles liked the 43.5 grain ammo the best. Im talking noticable differences from going from 43 to 43.5. We took velocities from all 3 rifles and have pictures of the results from all 3 as well. The AW and the sako are my personal rifles, but I have fired the blaser many times before. I really had my heart set on my AW performing better then it did in all honesty. Still, when it comes to reliability, the AI was out in front. I just wish it grouped like the Sako did. I also thought it was interesting how well the sako shot given it had the lowest category of optics of the group. I cant imagine what it would have done with the S&B. I had to go with what I had. ill try to post some pics later. Everything was at 112 yards. Something else that was neat was we found that the sako shot much better with the factory brake, where the blaser shot much better without it.

BTW: Of all the equipment used today, I give the gold star to the Oehler 35P. You guys were right on with this chrono. I was blown away with how easy and accurate this chrono is.
AIAW


Blaser


Blaser #2

 

[morpheus]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

What is your judgment criteria for concluding that the Sako is not as reliable as the AIAW? Also, what testing was performed that helped you determine that the AIAW is more rugged than the Sako? Just curious. Did the Sako fail you at some point?

I hear a lot of claims and the one famous story about the TRG stock cracking, but I don't hear much about people actually beating the crap out of both rifles and then determining which one is better. If you actually did this, I am impressed and would like to know more. I have two TRGs and have always wanted an AI, so any insight you can offer would be appreciated.

 

[beenjammin]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

Morph, Both the TRG and the AW are my personal rifles. i never said the sako was not rugged..
I just felt like AW has the most rugged feel. As everyone knows, the receiver is bonded and bolted to the chassis. The AW literally feels like an extension of you arm when you shoot it. a very comfident feel. I guess I should not use the word reliable as the sako has never failed me to say. The AW did feed/cycle better, and EJECTED much better. This is my second Sako TRG to not eject the brass well. I have to pull the bolt back hard to get the brass to eject out, otherwise it does not get ejected, it justs falls on th next round to be chambered. Kinda aggrivating.

As for the stocks, I have not had a sako trg crack, BUT the green factory paint did chip off in one place. I for some reason always thought that it was green throughout like injection molding, but it is not so.. It is definitely a layer with black underneath. I noticed this when I removed the krylon with acetone. Perhapse it weakened the factory finish. It did not wipe off but it chipped in one tiny spot. I have also read about TRG stocks cracking, but I have yet to see proof myself. When removing the krylon, I disassembled the sako down to its bare receiver and barrel. I can tell you that there are more bolts holding it together then the AW that have to be torqued down. Still the sako is very strong and robust. I love the TRG myself and think it bests other rifles much more expensive then it is.

I was one of those guys that went back and fourth between the Aw and sako for a long time. i finally got sick of it and just got them both. Its the best solution

I think my best best will be putting my sako into one of those Roedale Precision AICS stocks. The I will havethe best of both worlds.

 

[morpheus]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

Thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate your firsthand knowledge. Now I just need to follow your lead and "get both" too some day.

 

[ChrisF]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

I have both , I so far the AW has never failed to function , and does seem smoother cycling than the TRG when loaded to full cap , ( 10rds ) .
The TRG has failed to cycle , it jammed quite a bit with one of the mags .
I would rate the 338LM version as better in feed and function , its well ahead of its smaller brother in 308 21/22 .

Later Chris

P.S. What mount are you using with the AW /5-25 PMII , which moa etc .

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

Which rifle were the dies set for when the ammo was loaded? If you set the dies for the AIAW and played with the seating depth do you think it would shoot better?

TIA

Good luck

 

[beenjammin]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which rifle were the dies set for when the ammo was loaded? If you set the dies for the AIAW and played with the seating depth do you think it would shoot better?

TIA

Good luck </div></div>

I used Redding FL Bushing dies, redding t7 press, redding competition seating die. All the ammo was FL sized. The AW shot a little bettwe rthen using fed gold match. Ill get some pics up today.

 

[beenjammin]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

more


sako with 43.5

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

Beenjammn - thank you for the pics and info.

When you set your FL die, did you do it per the instructions from Redding or did you use a Mo's gauge / RCBS Precision Mic against a group of once fired cases from one particular rifle?


TIA

Good luck

 

[beenjammin]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

i took them both back out to the range this afternoon with ONLY 43.5 loads and it was like I had two different rifles. They both shot so much better. The AW shot alot better, but the sako was drilling one hole groups. even with the falcon scope, It was stupidly easy to to shoot under 1/2 moa. I noticed that when I lowered the S&B from 25x down to 15x, I seemed to shoot better? Ill post some new pics tonight. I have to say the the RCBS chargemaster was a really good investment. I can even imagine what a promethius would do.

 

[Shumba]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

Would be interesting to chrono the exact same load from both rifles and see what you get. Do both rifles have the same rate of twist? Same barrel length, etc.? What bullet are you shooting?

 

[beenjammin]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shumba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would be interesting to chrono the exact same load from both rifles and see what you get. Do both rifles have the same rate of twist? Same barrel length, etc.? What bullet are you shooting? </div></div>

I have all that data as well from all 3 rifles. The 26" sako barrel was faster per shot then the 24" AWP barrel and LRS2. The paper we wrote it all down on is in my office and im too lazy to get it right now. I was shooting a 175 gr SMK though.. For a newbie into reloading, I was very happy with my results compared to ammo like fed gold match. I was not even as crazy maticulous as some of the guys that weigh each bullet and detail the primer pocket etc.

I did try weighing some of the SMKs after I got home fromt he range just too see if there was any variance, and there was a few 10ths of a grain between the bullets from the same lot. If I went and sorted each bullet, could it make a difference? maybe not at 100 meters, but at a 1000????

 

[wkrutledge]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

On the TRG. Where you wrote "no brake", is that no brake on just the top group or no brake on that entire paper? I am considering getting a break for my TRG22 and improving accuracy would be a big plus!

 

[Swamper]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

The Sako TRG 22/42 stock is bolted to the action bar which is aluminum. The receiver is fully independent of the stock forearm and butt, as is the trigger. Torque values for the screws in the handstop slide don't matter. Torque value for the screw holding the butt to the action bar, behind the receiver tang, doesn't matter; they don't affect/effect accuracy unless they are loose.

Don't know about the stock used on the AI AW, but if similar to the AICS it is a 6# hog of a thing. The Sako stock weighs less than half and is a better design, UNLESS you need to throw the rifle from a plane and have it survive impacting the ground without breaking. The AICS will do that, although the skins might pop off or break, but having a full length heavy-ass aluminum bar design means no breakage when dropped from 20,000 feet, unless maybe it drops on a rock...

Gonna be dropping your rifle out of an airplane? Off a skyscraper? Me either.

Don't know why you're having trouble with ejection on your TRG22. Have you tried depressing the ejector while cleaning the bolt? Maybe get a drift punch and dismantle, clean & lube the ejector? Try a number drill in the hole and see if any crud comes out?

Only three action screws to torque on the M995 action. Nice thing about the TRG22/42 mount-bar is the barrel channel recess is big enough to take a 1.35" cylinder contour.

Another thing about your ejection troubles; If your ammunition is not full-length resized and neck trimmed to fit whichever rifle has the smaller chamber, (my 42 .300mag has a very short oal chamber), you could be having issues stemming from your case sizing.

You did say:
"... using the same lotted ammo, same brass , and primers with the same loads from the same despenser, and press..."

Do you own a case gauge like the Wilson or RCBS Precision Mic?
Might check out each chamber and verify your handloading dimensions, then mic several fired cases from each rifle. They are likely at significant variance. Size each round to be at least .003" under that rifle's fired case dimension. Probably best to be sure you are firing virgin brass to get a true chamber fill.

Might also have a scratch or burr on your chamber neck or wall? Some JB bore polish or simichrome on a tight patch in the chamber might help assure you don't get anymore binding. If not, look more carefully at your ammunition.

If you are, have been "adjusting" torque values on your TRG22, might try varying front and back values while just snugging the middle screw up firmly; like 20ip. Try 45-55 on the other screws and you might see a difference.


What great fun, testing three fantastic rifles! I would recommend next time forgetting the chronograph and spend more time on tailoring your ammo to the chamber it will be fired in. Get a Precision Mic and see how much variation there is. Size for each rifle. The brass don't matter, if it's all commercial. Might use the seating depth tool on the Precision Mic to establish that variable too, then you will have the important variables ironed out.

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

A little tuff to to call it since you used the same load for all rifles. I would say that the AW did not like this particular and wouldnt say that it didnt perform as it should. I can understand what you mean by wanting it to just blow away the others. I wouldnt worry about that too much. Also, if you were shooting at just 100 yards you kinda short changed all these rifles. No magic load for all rifles, but you knew that already. I find myself working with 1 rifle and shooting the piss out of it, getting the 1 load for it perfect. I do't have time to mess with teh other 5 AI's so they don't get as much play. At 100 there's no reason why any 3 of those rifles with the right load arent 1 holers. The test is bouncing them off the ground and then shooting them. My AI was the only one that past that test. Wish I had taken pics of my buddies 700p after the bounce test, but that was years ago and we knew what the outcome was gonna be.

Hey, what kind of watch did you have on? Yor in orange right? The watch could have thrown things off too!

 

[NikolaiS]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beenjammin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is my second Sako TRG to not eject the brass well. I have to pull the bolt back hard to get the brass to eject out, otherwise it does not get ejected, it justs falls on th next round to be chambered. Kinda aggrivating.

As for the stocks, I have not had a sako trg crack, BUT the green factory paint did chip off in one place. I for some reason always thought that it was green throughout like injection molding, but it is not so.. It is definitely a layer with black underneath. </div></div>

Re: the green paint, black molding, I think there are different versions out there. Some get painted over. I gave my green TRG-42 a nice scrape, and it stayed green through.

Not sure about the eject issue. I would have to pull the bolt really softly for the cartridge to flop back into the chamber. Works fine for me.

I do however have a slight anomoly with my magazine. If I dry fire snap caps, the last snap cap in the mag tends to jam nose down. These would be A-Zooms. Never have a problem with actual ammo, so I'm not too concerned.

 

[peterh]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

Interesting topic, I just got my first TRG 22. I've got to say I'm not a great shot, but I amazed myself with the groups I was shooting 1/4-.5 at 100yards. Now that may not be much for you seasoned marksman but for me that's fantastic and I'm thrilled with this gun. I don't reload and the only match ammo I could find locally was the Partizan match 168gn, I found this made in Serbia stuff is not bad. The only issue I can find with the gun is that maybe because I got the 20" version it is kicking a bit. I would like to get a couple of extra spacers for the butt but I understand you need longer bolts. Is there a softer pad for these guns out there??

 

[beenjammin]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

Wow this thread came back around. Man how things have changed since I posted this one. Reading back on it, I certainly have learned a great deal since, but I still say the TRG is one of the most consistant shooting rifles I have ever fired.

 

[bward]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: peterh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting topic, I just got my first TRG 22. I've got to say I'm not a great shot, but I amazed myself with the groups I was shooting 1/4-.5 at 100yards. Now that may not be much for you seasoned marksman but for me that's fantastic and I'm thrilled with this gun. I don't reload and the only match ammo I could find locally was the Partizan match 168gn, I found this made in Serbia stuff is not bad. The only issue I can find with the gun is that maybe because I got the 20" version it is kicking a bit. I would like to get a couple of extra spacers for the butt but I understand you need longer bolts. I there a softer pad for these guns out there??</div></div>
Get a brake if you're having problems with recoil.

 

[Chance]

Re: AIAW vs Sako trg 22 vs blaser lrs2 shoot out today

what happened to the pics?