I have never had a quality air gun and basically know nothing about them. I started doing some research over the weekend and happened on the FX Panthera and I have a few questions about precision air rifles. If you buy a quality rifle, figure out the right ammo and the tuning can one of these compete with a Vudoo or Rix X in the accuracy department? Lets say a goal of .5 Moa at 50 yards and less than 1 MOA at 100 yards (5 shot groups)? It would seem that the extreme spreads in velocity from these precision air rifles are better than what can be achieved with true match grade 22 rimfire ammo. I usually shoot between 50 and 100 rounds when I shoot. I have a range at home out to 200 yards. How many shots can you get from one of these rifles on a tank it you are shooting at 100 yards? Seems like a precision air rifle (FX panthera is around $2,000) is a lower cost alternative to a Vudoo even when you factor in buying a compressor and shooting match grade (expensive slugs). What am I missing?
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Air Rifle Curious
- Thread starter NotMOA
- Start date
Yes.
The Panthera was made by FX to be a direct competitor with the Voodoo and the Rim-X. With the ability to fine tune your velocity with the dials on the rifle you are able to set the gun for what you want. This is something that you are not able to do with any rimfire. Now you will have to also remember that you will need the support equipment for the rifle as well. You will typically need to fill the Panthera after each stage, so hauling around an air tank of some sort will be required.
The Panthera was made by FX to be a direct competitor with the Voodoo and the Rim-X. With the ability to fine tune your velocity with the dials on the rifle you are able to set the gun for what you want. This is something that you are not able to do with any rimfire. Now you will have to also remember that you will need the support equipment for the rifle as well. You will typically need to fill the Panthera after each stage, so hauling around an air tank of some sort will be required.
The FX Panthera is 100% designed and purpose built to compete with the RimX & Vudoo builds on all fronts. I have one and I have shelved my RimX!!!
The tune and slugs I am currently shooting it will hold .6-.7 at 100y and carry that to .7-.8 to 200y. I am shooting Patriot Javelin 40G 218 Slugs at 950fps. A 50y zero is a 3 mil drop at 100y. I will get 13-14 shots off of the bottle that is on the rifle. I have a 74cf tank and I can get 18+ top offs out of that tank for the Panthera. This will allow me to shoot any 1 day PRS22 or NRL22 match I need to. I do have a second 74cf tank as well as a compressor that will top off my tanks. This allows me to travel for larger matches and have 2 days of shooting and not have to worry about running out.
A good tank setup is going to cost you 1K easy. A CHEAP compressor in the 500-700 range and a quality compressor is 2K-2.5K. You need a source for air either way. A local dive shop, fire department or paintball shop.
Patriot slugs are going to run you $25/ 200. Zans are close to the same and Varmint Knockers as well. It all comes down to what you want to shoot and tune for. In my M3 Impact I'm shooting Varmint Knockers. All of them make quality slugs.
The tune and slugs I am currently shooting it will hold .6-.7 at 100y and carry that to .7-.8 to 200y. I am shooting Patriot Javelin 40G 218 Slugs at 950fps. A 50y zero is a 3 mil drop at 100y. I will get 13-14 shots off of the bottle that is on the rifle. I have a 74cf tank and I can get 18+ top offs out of that tank for the Panthera. This will allow me to shoot any 1 day PRS22 or NRL22 match I need to. I do have a second 74cf tank as well as a compressor that will top off my tanks. This allows me to travel for larger matches and have 2 days of shooting and not have to worry about running out.
A good tank setup is going to cost you 1K easy. A CHEAP compressor in the 500-700 range and a quality compressor is 2K-2.5K. You need a source for air either way. A local dive shop, fire department or paintball shop.
Patriot slugs are going to run you $25/ 200. Zans are close to the same and Varmint Knockers as well. It all comes down to what you want to shoot and tune for. In my M3 Impact I'm shooting Varmint Knockers. All of them make quality slugs.
Curious....
I'm curious about how much maintenance something like an FX needs. In threads about them, people talk about tuning and "lots of O-rings", etc.
How much work are these really?
I'm curious about how much maintenance something like an FX needs. In threads about them, people talk about tuning and "lots of O-rings", etc.
How much work are these really?
a 22 in my mind is still better as 22 ammo of some sort or another is easy to get and lugging tanks around just don't sound all that fun . that said they sure look like a lot more fun than the old daisy 10 pump we used to shoot each other with as a kid some of those pcp guns can be used for hunting . if you get it send pic and description on what you like and what you don't .
The FX Impact has LOTS of O-Rings in it. I have had mine for just over 1 year now and replaced 1 O-Ring. They are simple to work on if you go slow about it. There are also plenty of FX Tech videos out there as well.
The FX Panthera is NOT full of O-Rings and competition designed.
The life of these type PCP airguns is feeding the DRY AIR. When moisture gets into the system is when you see more and more problems. Good filtration system on your compressor when filling bottles.
Maintenance on the rifles is honestly really easy. The Impact has quite a few o-rings in it, but they are honestly not to hard to get at and replace. The Panthera has even less and is much easier to replace rings on.
As long as you are filling the rifles with dry air or some inert gas you will be fine with them. Moisture in the air system is the worst thing for the guns honestly. Don't worry about air temp as I take my $3K+ rifle out when it is well below zero up here in ND and hunt with it. The cost of them is more due to the engineering and machining time needed to make one. They honestly are works of art when you open them up and understand how they truly work.
If you are looking at either the M3 or the Panthera I would go to the Fx-USA website and look at the exploded diagrams of the rifles. You will see how they are assembled and how they work. Another option would be to get with people that shoot airguns and ask to shoot the rifles, if you are near my area you are more than welcome to come out and shoot any gun you want. I will warn you though........ they can be EXTREMELY addictive!
Tanks don’t have to be expensive. Retired, out of date SCBA fireman tanks are plentiful. You just can’t get them filled at a shop. You must fill yourself.
You can set up a cheap fill station or an expensive fill station depends on if you like to tinker and work on stuff or just spend money <$500 or $4000+.
I believe we are on different continents, so I doubt I'll be visiting you to try a rifle
There is someone selling rifles like this, here, so there must be some around. Not that many as far as I can tell. Airguns seem to be for standing up and shooting indoors at 10 meters, wearing an elaborate shooting jacket
It seems to help if when you do change O-rings to place a very small amount of food grade silicone on them. Also, making sure to leave rifles with a hammer spring uncocked in storage, it takes up an extra space in a rack (likeTexan .357, .457 & .50) but saves the spring...I believe. As far as cleaning goes; don't do alot, there is very little barrel cleaning needed and when you do they don't like firearm solvents or bristle brushes...just a soft cloth and a rod.
I cocur with doing everything that you can to keep water out of the tanks, I have an AirVentury 4500 psi compressor($1500.00) that works well and also inline filters on the tanks that fill my guns.
I have owned an Impact mk2 for about 5 years. No oring issues yet. I shoot a lot of standard, and hp pellets. Tuning is like load developing. I set my gun up with a chrono for a certain speed, and pellet weight. I find what works best for me and order pellets by the thousand. And shoot. Like a springer, a pcp can shoot multiple pellets with wonderful accuracy. Not all pellets are liked by all barrels, like bullets and barrels. Tuning is not that hard, youtube has quite a few videos on tuning. Write down your settings, shoot. With just a twist of a knob or screw you make adjustments, don`t like the adjustments, go back to the original setting. Some guns like the FX Impact has multiple adjustments points. You will need air.
I don't think the Panthera is quite up to the high end 22rf yet as far as precision and build quality goes. It's also a new offering by FX so some bugs need to get worked out and I bet the system can be improved upon as time goes by.
If you go to Airgun Nation there is a bunch of reading that can be done about the Panthera as well as all the other airguns.
The Panthera can put out a lot of power and there are .245 G1 BC slugs out there that will fit in the mag so the ability to send heavy and high BC slugs at 1000-ish fps with sub 10 fps ES is going to REALLY HELP the scores!!!
It is, or will likely be, the top airgun for NRL and PRS due to it being designed for these sports. I have two friends that finished 1st and 2nd just yesterday with their Panthera's using slugs in a steel match that goes out to 101Y. This is the first time in 3 years that the slug shooters overcame the pellet shooters for highest scores in this match.
I set the course record in this match with my 22rf two months ago with 47/48. Darn it I missed one offhand!
If you go to Airgun Nation there is a bunch of reading that can be done about the Panthera as well as all the other airguns.
The Panthera can put out a lot of power and there are .245 G1 BC slugs out there that will fit in the mag so the ability to send heavy and high BC slugs at 1000-ish fps with sub 10 fps ES is going to REALLY HELP the scores!!!
It is, or will likely be, the top airgun for NRL and PRS due to it being designed for these sports. I have two friends that finished 1st and 2nd just yesterday with their Panthera's using slugs in a steel match that goes out to 101Y. This is the first time in 3 years that the slug shooters overcame the pellet shooters for highest scores in this match.
I set the course record in this match with my 22rf two months ago with 47/48. Darn it I missed one offhand!
I will tell you the Panthera when its tuned and the slugs have been chosen its a freaking hammer!!!! This is 300y prone on this past Sunday truing data. These are 217 34g Patriot Javelins Gen2 at 1030fps.
I have taken my 700mm Panther in 25 cal out to 400 yards. I have shot a 5 shot group at that distance that you could cover with your palm. Granted it was in almost 0 wind. These guns can shoot. I am shooting the 66gr Altaros slugs. They have a BC of .247 which is way higher then any 22lr ammo and almost any other airgun slugs. With my 50 yard zero I am at 24.3 mils at 400 yards and only 1 mil wind drift in a 5mph wind. My plan is to take this out past 500 yards when the field where I shoot dries up some.
Sure the guns are expensive to buy and so is the fill equipement but once you have everything the ammo is super cheap to shoot. You can shoot all day and only be out a few bucks depending on what you are shooting.
Sure the guns are expensive to buy and so is the fill equipement but once you have everything the ammo is super cheap to shoot. You can shoot all day and only be out a few bucks depending on what you are shooting.
As far as the shots you can get on a tank: you can teather a larger scuba type tank to the rifle and shoot, and shoot and shoot some more. Your shooting from a fixed area so tethering would not be a problem. Just know that airguns are hot now and a lot of experienced arms builders, machinists, etc. are climbing on board so anything you get now will probably be old tech in 5 years. But the way firearms are being attacked having a few reliable of these is a good enough reason to get one. Make your own ammo and pump.
I think I would be classed as a bottom feeder in the air gun world. I do have a few "nice" rifles however. I think the biggest difference you will see is in the triggers, that is the most easy to see.
IMHO .5 at 50yards is very doable with an "entry level" PCP. Moving out to 100 yards (again IMHO) there are several things that come into play. First off is just what happens to pellets when they move past the speed of sound, and then cross back over again. From what I understand it does the same thing to bullets, but cranked up to 11. The shuttlecock profile of pellets just does not like going that fast and then slowing down again. So you are going to be generally speaking in the 900's FPS as far as speed goes, so you are going to be dealing with a bit of drop. Personally I have seen pellets shoot fantastic at 50, but like hell at 100, or even 75. This is why many airguns that go that far out are shooting "slugs"....or really bullets, and you do need a barrel that is specifically for slugs. I have never seen a barrel do real well that shoots both.
Again generally speaking you are going to want something with a regulator on it, this will give you best ES....usually.
There was an entry level european version of an airgun (under 12FPE) that shot just fantastic. I bought one and it does work out to 50 yards just fine, but farther then that it is just too slow and too much acting on the pellet.
Bottom line is you don't have to spend a ton of money to get something accurate at 50. Personally with the (at least) dozen air rifles I have you will not be happy at 100 unless you move to something that will shoot slugs. And that moves into a very different area. Ammo selection is everything.
Here are a few pics of ammo testing indoors, so no wind. The gun was on the bottle, so no real loss of pressure. The differences in the different pellets is staggering. The first two is the difference between 4.51 and 4.52 pellets, one would corkscrew like a mad man. I would have never thought that .0x would make that kind of difference. Each group it 5 rounds, yea not enough to really tell what is good, but enough to tell you what is not good, so you don't waste your time on it.
Years ago there was a web site, I want to say shooters world, but could be wrong. That would do a pellet sample box. They would sell you basically a tray for fishing, and each compartment was about 25 rounds of all kinds of different pellets from all kinds of different brands. H&N, JSB, you name it, that pack had it in there. It was a great way to find out what your gun likes if you don't have a large sample of pellets.
IMHO .5 at 50yards is very doable with an "entry level" PCP. Moving out to 100 yards (again IMHO) there are several things that come into play. First off is just what happens to pellets when they move past the speed of sound, and then cross back over again. From what I understand it does the same thing to bullets, but cranked up to 11. The shuttlecock profile of pellets just does not like going that fast and then slowing down again. So you are going to be generally speaking in the 900's FPS as far as speed goes, so you are going to be dealing with a bit of drop. Personally I have seen pellets shoot fantastic at 50, but like hell at 100, or even 75. This is why many airguns that go that far out are shooting "slugs"....or really bullets, and you do need a barrel that is specifically for slugs. I have never seen a barrel do real well that shoots both.
Again generally speaking you are going to want something with a regulator on it, this will give you best ES....usually.
There was an entry level european version of an airgun (under 12FPE) that shot just fantastic. I bought one and it does work out to 50 yards just fine, but farther then that it is just too slow and too much acting on the pellet.
Bottom line is you don't have to spend a ton of money to get something accurate at 50. Personally with the (at least) dozen air rifles I have you will not be happy at 100 unless you move to something that will shoot slugs. And that moves into a very different area. Ammo selection is everything.
Here are a few pics of ammo testing indoors, so no wind. The gun was on the bottle, so no real loss of pressure. The differences in the different pellets is staggering. The first two is the difference between 4.51 and 4.52 pellets, one would corkscrew like a mad man. I would have never thought that .0x would make that kind of difference. Each group it 5 rounds, yea not enough to really tell what is good, but enough to tell you what is not good, so you don't waste your time on it.
Years ago there was a web site, I want to say shooters world, but could be wrong. That would do a pellet sample box. They would sell you basically a tray for fishing, and each compartment was about 25 rounds of all kinds of different pellets from all kinds of different brands. H&N, JSB, you name it, that pack had it in there. It was a great way to find out what your gun likes if you don't have a large sample of pellets.
I'm kind of a stand alone when it comes to competing with "pellets" at longer distances, like at 100Y. I don't like it and this can be incredibly frustrating for anyone that has a good rimfire, but especially a centerfire, and is used to that kind of performance at 100Y.
For example I have an unofficial record on Centercuts EBR practice targets of 244/250 with my Thomas HPX "using a 35 cal plug".
I've had so many huge flyers that have destroyed what should have been very good scores on these BR cards. Kind of like the card labeled 227 6X. It's usually one or two flyers per card, or say about every 40-ish shots.
I've tried sorting pellets but I still get those flyers.
These were shot in low wind conditions and are some of my best cards.
BUT most of my cards are in the 200/250 range/thereabouts in normal winds. In the bottom pic the "top left" bull was for sighters.
If it's windy I've had groups 6" wide, lol.
The pellets used were JSB 22 cal 25.39gr MRD's which have a .048 BC in my gun at 965 fps.
I hate those huge flyers!!!! Grrrr
So I stopped using pellets at longer distances except occasionally messing around when shooting steel.
I get flyers with slugs too but some slugs do so much better in the wind due to higher BC that it helps at farther distances, especially the farther you go.
One of the slugs I use is the Altaros 25 caliber 49.5 gr which have a .21 BC. That really helps in the wind!
For example I have an unofficial record on Centercuts EBR practice targets of 244/250 with my Thomas HPX "using a 35 cal plug".
I've had so many huge flyers that have destroyed what should have been very good scores on these BR cards. Kind of like the card labeled 227 6X. It's usually one or two flyers per card, or say about every 40-ish shots.
I've tried sorting pellets but I still get those flyers.
These were shot in low wind conditions and are some of my best cards.
BUT most of my cards are in the 200/250 range/thereabouts in normal winds. In the bottom pic the "top left" bull was for sighters.
If it's windy I've had groups 6" wide, lol.
The pellets used were JSB 22 cal 25.39gr MRD's which have a .048 BC in my gun at 965 fps.
I hate those huge flyers!!!! Grrrr
So I stopped using pellets at longer distances except occasionally messing around when shooting steel.
I get flyers with slugs too but some slugs do so much better in the wind due to higher BC that it helps at farther distances, especially the farther you go.
One of the slugs I use is the Altaros 25 caliber 49.5 gr which have a .21 BC. That really helps in the wind!
