Alternative Armalite mags to .300 RSAUM???

[MeatAxe556]

I have a AR-10T Ultra (.300 RSAUM) that Armalite has decided not to support (damn them ). So none of the original 5 round mags are to be found, even from Armalite itself. Would like to have hi-cap mags for this, or at least better than 5 rounds. I note on the 5 round .300 RSAUM follower that the length of the top "hump" seems to have been carefully shaved off at an angle. So, I'm hoping this is just a modified .308 follower.

I have heard that the Gen. 2 .308 hi-cap mags can be used (up to 10 rounds in .300 RSAUM), but the upper left edge of the follower needs to be shaved off. Have also heard that the feed lips on the older mags can be shaved off to work with .300 RSAUM, or, alternately, that the longer feed lips on M14 mags work better, which is confusing.

Seems like there must be more than one way to make the various Armalite .308 mags work for .300 RSAUM. Has anyone just swapped followers on the older (M14) mags? Or filed down the .308 follower to make it work for .300 RSAUM?

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[hlee]

Suggestions? Trial and error. If the Gen 2 mags are plentiful (which I have no idea about) buy a few. Then, carefully measure all aspects of the mags that you have. ==> Dremel/file as needed.

 

[ORD]

What...you mean you did NOT get everything you needed to know and MORE from this post here: Magazines for .300 RSAUM AR-10T??? - AR15.COM ?!?! Typical BARFCOM BS and one of MANY reasons I don't do a lot of posting there unless its buying/selling or in a few of the industry forums (even then...LOOK OUT)!!!

What "pertinent info from somebody else on how to convert hi-cap magazines to .300 RSAUM" were you able to obtain thus far? The only "attempts" at higher capacity SAUM mags for the Armalite I have seen/heard of were a trainwreck in terms of reliability/proper functioning. You might check with the folks at Accuracy Systems as they have been doing 300 SAUM conversions for a while now and it is possible they have parts (or at a minimum, some specialized knowledge) that might be helpful to you in getting what you are looking for: Custom AR10 Rifles Accuracy Systems Gunsmith Gunsmithing AR 10

As for the SAUM lineup from Armalite being dropped...I wouldn't take it so hard or so personally. If it sticks in your gut that badly, sell it off and find something else instead of wasting your time/energy on a platform from a company that you'll never buy from again and have otherwise lost faith in at this point.

Stuff from mfgs gets dropped all the time and it isn't anything personal or a complete disregard for the end user/customer...its just business. The SAUM rifles/uppers/mags from Armalite (and DPMS for that matter), despite some following, were a huge drain in capital/resources for VERY minimal sales/profit (at least percentage wise compared to other products). At the end of the day...companies want to make money and when no opportunity to do so exists or demand for other products far exceeds the relatively non-existent demand/market for some products, stuff gets dc'd and companies refuse to support the old/outdated/abandoned products.

 

[MeatAxe556]

What...you mean you did NOT get everything you needed to know and MORE from this post here: Magazines for .300 RSAUM AR-10T??? - AR15.COM ?!?! Typical BARFCOM BS and one of MANY reasons I don't do a lot of posting there unless its buying/selling or in a few of the industry forums (even then...LOOK OUT)!!!

What "pertinent info from somebody else on how to convert hi-cap magazines to .300 RSAUM" were you able to obtain thus far? The only "attempts" at higher capacity SAUM mags for the Armalite I have seen/heard of were a trainwreck in terms of reliability/proper functioning. You might check with the folks at Accuracy Systems as they have been doing 300 SAUM conversions for a while now and it is possible they have parts (or at a minimum, some specialized knowledge) that might be helpful to you in getting what you are looking for: Custom AR10 Rifles Accuracy Systems Gunsmith Gunsmithing AR 10

As for the SAUM lineup from Armalite being dropped...I wouldn't take it so hard or so personally. If it sticks in your gut that badly, sell it off and find something else instead of wasting your time/energy on a platform from a company that you'll never buy from again and have otherwise lost faith in at this point.

Stuff from mfgs gets dropped all the time and it isn't anything personal or a complete disregard for the end user/customer...its just business. The SAUM rifles/uppers/mags from Armalite (and DPMS for that matter), despite some following, were a huge drain in capital/resources for VERY minimal sales/profit (at least percentage wise compared to other products). At the end of the day...companies want to make money and when no opportunity to do so exists or demand for other products far exceeds the relatively non-existent demand/market for some products, stuff gets dc'd and companies refuse to support the old/outdated/abandoned products.

Wow. Who pissed in your Cheerios today? Was it me? Obviously it was not some manufacturer of a product you bought who pulled the rug out from under you. Why on earth are you reading Barfcom if it pisses you off so much?

The AR-10T Ultra rifles are pretty good from what I hear and see. It's the people running customer support at Armalite that piss me off. How hard can it be to run some .300 RSAUM mags (or even some plastic followers) out of the tens of thousands they sell (@ $45.00/each last time they had them). That's like buying a car and the manufacturer stops selling parts for it after 5 years. How long will a AR-10T Ultra last. The least Armalite could do is tell you how to modify existing mags so that you can shoot your rifle, but they won't even do that. Therefore, I will not buy another one from them. However, I will gladly sell you a NIB Armalite AR-10T Ultra for $10,000.00. The three 5 round mags are extra, though.

And thanks for the link, that might be useful information, which was the reason I posted in the first place since Armalite doesn't give a crap.

 

[MeatAxe556]

Suggestions? Trial and error. If the Gen 2 mags are plentiful (which I have no idea about) buy a few. Then, carefully measure all aspects of the mags that you have. ==> Dremel/file as needed.

Unfortunately, the Gen 2 .308 mags are not always plentiful, especially the ones that are supposed to hold and feed 10 rounds of .300 RSAUM nicely. I tried to buy some after the Sandy Hook panic and they were impossible to find. So that's why I'm asking about alternatives. For some reason, that rubs ORD the wrong way in a big way. Apparently any response to his posts have to be run through a moderator.

 

[ORD]

Unfortunately, the Gen 2 .308 mags are not always plentiful, especially the ones that are supposed to hold and feed 10 rounds of .300 RSAUM nicely. I tried to buy some after the Sandy Hook panic and they were impossible to find. So that's why I'm asking about alternatives. For some reason, that rubs ORD the wrong way in a big way. Apparently any response to his posts have to be run through a moderator.

Not sure why you got the moderator approval stuff, but its been going around lately for everyone so again...its nothing personal and has zero to do with me. It is most likely due to your low post count and possibly because you tried inserting a link, image, etc. as that seems to be one of the triggers for it. In any event...no biggie. I will tell you that when you quote a member (as you did in the response that it apparently in limbo awaiting approval) that the member gets an e-mail with your response attached. I assure you, unlike your suggestion, my cheerios have not been pissed in and my post was sincere as explained below, so don't get all delusions-of-persecution on me or anyone else or otherwise take personal any attempts at levity (especially those involving BARFCOM and a lack of meaningful responses over there). I found your thread only because I thought I recalled this issue coming up a while back and someone offering up some detailed advice on it. I couldn't find the thread I thought I remembered reading, but in a 5-min Google search, your BARFCOM thread popped up and I saw the response from Art at SWS.

Nothing rubbed me the wrong way with your post. If you'd take a minute to read, I was being sarcastic about the lack of meaningful responses you got on BARFCOM and suggesting that it isn't a big shocker (especially as your post might have come off a little crass or entitled in your OP there) because that site has really deteriorated to the point of being useless in many regards but for the EE and industry areas. If it would have irked me in some way, I'd have just called you a name or responded in like to the BARFCOM post and gone away (oops...nope...that would have only happened on BARFCOM as you've probably learned by now). Instead...I gave you the Accuracy Systems link and some other info from my base of knowledge about other higher capacity mag woes with the SAUM in the large-frame AR platforms. I actually am curious what "pertinent info from somebody else on how to convert hi-cap magazines to .300 RSAUM" as you stated in your BARFCOM post because I've not seen nor heard of any that actually work (or at least...that work like the OEM 5-rounders work...or 4-rounders in the DPMS case).

As for the last portion of my post...I know it sucks when you expect (even demand) service after the sale on a product, but again, it happens. It sucks for some people who want/need mags for the platform who bought thinking that such service/parts would be around when needed. Sorry for your loss. As for them failing to give you instructions on modifying mags, etc., they have a canned, scripted set of info which they really can't stray too much from for a variety of reasons and I'm sure that offering firearms modification advice to anyone who calls in (unless its printed in a Tech Note) isn't going to happen. There are many issues with doing so, including but not limited to legal liability issues if they tell you to mod something and then you go out and allege that because of their advice you blew your left nut off (or een if you only suffered minor injuries or no injuries at all but those to your rifle/modded mags/etc.).

I truly hope that you are able to source parts/mags/info on this topic and that you can get it resolved.

 

[204 AR]

I can't be much help finding Armalite mags, but I do have a DPMS 300 saum. It came with 2 mags, one works well and one doesn't. They both hold 4 rounds, which seems to be the limit in that platform. I tried modifying one to hold 5 rounds by cutting 1/2" off the legs of the follower. All this did was cause the sides of the mag to bulge when I put 5 in there.

Maybe Armalite's mags are thicker or stronger, idk, but 4 rounds is the limit in the dpms mags.

A buddy of mine with the same rifle wanted more mags so he called ASI and they told him they just use unmodified 308 mags. He tried that and it didn't work well. Nor has it worked well in mine.

 

[MeatAxe556]

Not sure why you got the moderator approval stuff, but its been going around lately for everyone so again...its nothing personal and has zero to do with me. It is most likely due to your low post count and possibly because you tried inserting a link, image, etc. as that seems to be one of the triggers for it. In any event...no biggie. I will tell you that when you quote a member (as you did in the response that it apparently in limbo awaiting approval) that the member gets an e-mail with your response attached. I assure you, unlike your suggestion, my cheerios have not been pissed in and my post was sincere as explained below, so don't get all delusions-of-persecution on me or anyone else or otherwise take personal any attempts at levity (especially those involving BARFCOM and a lack of meaningful responses over there). I found your thread only because I thought I recalled this issue coming up a while back and someone offering up some detailed advice on it. I couldn't find the thread I thought I remembered reading, but in a 5-min Google search, your BARFCOM thread popped up and I saw the response from Art at SWS.

Nothing rubbed me the wrong way with your post. If you'd take a minute to read, I was being sarcastic about the lack of meaningful responses you got on BARFCOM and suggesting that it isn't a big shocker (especially as your post might have come off a little crass or entitled in your OP there) because that site has really deteriorated to the point of being useless in many regards but for the EE and industry areas. If it would have irked me in some way, I'd have just called you a name or responded in like to the BARFCOM post and gone away (oops...nope...that would have only happened on BARFCOM as you've probably learned by now). Instead...I gave you the Accuracy Systems link and some other info from my base of knowledge about other higher capacity mag woes with the SAUM in the large-frame AR platforms. I actually am curious what "pertinent info from somebody else on how to convert hi-cap magazines to .300 RSAUM" as you stated in your BARFCOM post because I've not seen nor heard of any that actually work (or at least...that work like the OEM 5-rounders work...or 4-rounders in the DPMS case).

As for the last portion of my post...I know it sucks when you expect (even demand) service after the sale on a product, but again, it happens. It sucks for some people who want/need mags for the platform who bought thinking that such service/parts would be around when needed. Sorry for your loss. As for them failing to give you instructions on modifying mags, etc., they have a canned, scripted set of info which they really can't stray too much from for a variety of reasons and I'm sure that offering firearms modification advice to anyone who calls in (unless its printed in a Tech Note) isn't going to happen. There are many issues with doing so, including but not limited to legal liability issues if they tell you to mod something and then you go out and allege that because of their advice you blew your left nut off (or een if you only suffered minor injuries or no injuries at all but those to your rifle/modded mags/etc.).

I truly hope that you are able to source parts/mags/info on this topic and that you can get it resolved.

Sorry I misinterpreted your post. I'd already had a belly full of arrogance from Armalite and couldn't swallow a side of sarcasm!

I believe manufacturers and vendors need to be held accountable when they drop the ball or are too arrogant or dishonest to provide what I pay them for. So, when they screw me, I have no qualms about giving them hell on the internet where it will be seen by thousands. By the same token, I acknowledge good or superior service on the internet as well. The internet is a powerful tool for sharing information as well as keeping manufacturers and vendors honest. Armalite does a shitty job of customer support, as far as I'm concerned, and people need to know about that before they fork over their hard earned dollars for their products. I don't think these corporate idiots fathom how much damage they do to their brands and how much bad will they generate when they screw individual customers. If you're inordinately scared of litigation (especially in the firearms business) you need to get out of the business altogether. It's a mistake when you let lawyers call the shots on business decisions. If you let the lawyers run things, you'll never do anything.

I did get some information on AR10T.com (some of it conflicting) about this issue: http://www.ar10t.com/forums/magazines/13702-i-need-300-rsaum-magazines

I got a Gen. II 20 rounder today that I'm going to experiment on. It would be nice if Mag Pul mags would work for this so I could circumvent Armalite altogether.

 

[ORD]

I got a Gen. II 20 rounder today that I'm going to experiment on. It would be nice if Mag Pul mags would work for this so I could circumvent Armalite altogether.

Technically...you CAN modify Magpul 20LR PMAGs to fit/function in the Armalite AR-10 platform (see here:
PMAG 20LR...In an Armalite AR-10! Yeah...that's right! - AR15.COM [seems that the pics are gone from the archive, but you might PM/IM/email the OP and ask if he can offer any assistance if you go this route)], but I'm not sure how successful that project would be as you are really stacking tolerances even more at that point. While the pics are gone (at least they were for me), you essentially have to remove some material from the sides of the PMAG 20LR body (sanding) so that it fits in the magwell of the Armalite AR-10B lower, and then re-cut the slot for the mag release/catch. Be advised though...by removing the material from the mag body and otherwise hacking around on it, it will cause the mag to become more flexible, to will wear faster, and be subject to failure quicker than a stock 20LR PMAG. Combine the weakening of the mag with the additional forces exerted on the mag body by the 300 SAUM case/ammo and you may end up creating more problems than solving. Still...if you can find a used mag, or even a new one at pre-craze pricing (~$20) then it might with worth giving it a whirl to see what you can get working.

As for modding the AR-10B, Gen 2, 15-round or other mags to work properly with 10-round or so...it might be a good idea to snag some spare followers from 762SASS, DSGArms (not sure if DSG is still selling those mag parts or not), etc. They are harder than hen's teeth to find, but those places have "Notify" options so when they return to inventory, you can get an e-mail to alert you and jump on them before they are all gone.

 

[MeatAxe556]

Technically...you CAN modify Magpul 20LR PMAGs to fit/function in the Armalite AR-10 platform (see here:
PMAG 20LR...In an Armalite AR-10! Yeah...that's right! - AR15.COM [seems that the pics are gone from the archive, but you might PM/IM/email the OP and ask if he can offer any assistance if you go this route)], but I'm not sure how successful that project would be as you are really stacking tolerances even more at that point. While the pics are gone (at least they were for me), you essentially have to remove some material from the sides of the PMAG 20LR body (sanding) so that it fits in the magwell of the Armalite AR-10B lower, and then re-cut the slot for the mag release/catch. Be advised though...by removing the material from the mag body and otherwise hacking around on it, it will cause the mag to become more flexible, to will wear faster, and be subject to failure quicker than a stock 20LR PMAG. Combine the weakening of the mag with the additional forces exerted on the mag body by the 300 SAUM case/ammo and you may end up creating more problems than solving. Still...if you can find a used mag, or even a new one at pre-craze pricing (~$20) then it might with worth giving it a whirl to see what you can get working.

As for modding the AR-10B, Gen 2, 15-round or other mags to work properly with 10-round or so...it might be a good idea to snag some spare followers from 762SASS, DSGArms (not sure if DSG is still selling those mag parts or not), etc. They are harder than hen's teeth to find, but those places have "Notify" options so when they return to inventory, you can get an e-mail to alert you and jump on them before they are all gone.

Thanks for the info!

I'm going to play around with these mags and see what works. Hopefully a .300 RSAUM follower will function in a Gen 1 or Gen 2 .308 body and make things easier. Will try to get a hold of a P-mag as see if it might function as a quasi-single stack mag, which would at least be better than a 5 rounder.

 

[Will_Power]

Guys, I apologize about the necropost to a five month old thread, but I just discovered the SAUM ARs this week, and it's got me kinda curious as an academic exercise.

SI Defense and CMMG came out with G3 mag compatable lowers several years back.

Assuming you could get the followers and feed lips shaped correctly, would the larger size of the G3/HK mag prevent the bulging issue seem with the SAUM cartridges in standard magazines?

 

[ORD]

Assuming you could get the followers and feed lips shaped correctly, would the larger size of the G3/HK mag prevent the bulging issue seem with the SAUM cartridges in standard magazines?

Making MANY assumptions about being able to get the followers and feedlips correct, then at least the G3/HK91 STEEL mags (important point here...NOT ALUMINUM/ALLOY MAGS) should be strong enough to stand up, but as with all things...there are trade offs and you are going through a LOT of work for only ~0.04-0.05" more max COAL. You give up the LRBHO with the G3 mags...steel mags which will take the use/abuse are considerably more expensive than the abundant $3/mag alloy mags and by the time you modd the followers, etc., you may have more in a modded G3 mag than it would be worth...etc., etc., etc.

If you figure it out...let us know!

 

[DavidAR10]

See if Joe Casavan is still at O'Neill Ops.

He might be able to help.


The Armalite 300 SAUM - YouTube


O'Neill Ops - In Pursuit of a Mile (HD) - YouTube

 

[blksno]

Not to RE-resurrect an old thread...but since that's me...I figured I might as well.

I have not yet done a PMAG mod, but I'm going to. I plan on doing it with a PMAG 10 LR/SR...the 10 round version. I've done mods on the223/.556 PMAGs to function with WSSM ammo, so I don't forsee it being a very big problem. Just some tinkering.
I don't have any intention of running high cap mags, but getting more than 5 wouldn't hurt and doing it for less than $20 is never bad.

 

[ORD]

Not to RE-resurrect an old thread...but since that's me...I figured I might as well.

I have not yet done a PMAG mod, but I'm going to. I plan on doing it with a PMAG 10 LR/SR...the 10 round version. I've done mods on the223/.556 PMAGs to function with WSSM ammo, so I don't forsee it being a very big problem. Just some tinkering.
I don't have any intention of running high cap mags, but getting more than 5 wouldn't hurt and doing it for less than $20 is never bad.

Thanks for the update. I know plenty of folks are in this boat so I'm sure any wisdom/insight from your efforts will be much appreciated.

 

[Will_Power]

Not to RE-resurrect an old thread...but since that's me...I figured I might as well.

I have not yet done a PMAG mod, but I'm going to. I plan on doing it with a PMAG 10 LR/SR...the 10 round version. I've done mods on the223/.556 PMAGs to function with WSSM ammo, so I don't forsee it being a very big problem. Just some tinkering.
I don't have any intention of running high cap mags, but getting more than 5 wouldn't hurt and doing it for less than $20 is never bad.

Count me in as being very interested to hear how this turns out.