Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

[Mark21]

Here is what I have at my gunsmith right how:

1. 24" Mike Rock 5R barrel with 11.27 twist, bead blasted to match action
2. The new round bottom short Surgeon action (from the SH group buy) in 308 with recoil lug, 20MOA scope base, and chromed bolt
3. Jewell trigger
4. Seekins DBM
5. Bell and Carlson A5-style Vertical grip stock
6. Harris bipod

While the stock is in NaturalGear camo, I will leave barrel and action as is, since I will be using this on one-way ranges and to ease into the world of competition. Also no threading on barrel since my state won't allow suppressors. I chose 24" to be able to reach 800 yards comfortably, though most shooting will be at 300-600. If it matters, I reload, so Redding dies and bushings and all that are on-the-come.

Was originally going to go with a Rem 700 5R, but by the time I added the cost of putting on a Mcmillan stock, truing the action, etc, etc -- I figured why not spend a little more and go custom all the way.

Any advice to pass along before I get this rifle put together? Appreciate all comments. Now need to figure out how to get the money for the Heritage I want to top this off with!

 

[dmg308]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

Just curious if you were gonna put a Mcmillan on a 5r why you chose a Bell and Carlson for a custom build?

 

[Mark21]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

dmg -- I never have handled a McMillan, but given its reputation on here that was what I was looking to go with.

Then in the process of researching this build, I played around with a Sako TRG (which I loved) and found that the B&C stock felt very similar. So that's how to McM changed to the B&C. Also ended up saving me about $400 and a long wait.

 

[poff6401]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

mark 21, don't forget manners stocks, half the wait time, good customer service, durable and dependable.........check'em out, every thing else looks solid....should be a shooter

 

[oneeyedmac]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

It all looks top notch, except the stock. I like Bell & Carlson stocks but it seems a little out of place on a build with the components you have listed above. I will say though that if there was an area where you had to save money the stock you picked is a good way to go about it. The B&C does have that aluminum bedding block and if it fits you it will give you more confidence as you shoot.

Don't skimp on your optics.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?



What's wrong with B&C's tactical stocks? I've shot Macmillan stocks and while first class they don't seem worth the price and a 6+ month wait to me. Honestly, how are the comperable model Macmillain tactical stocks better than B&C or HS Precision stocks? Right now you can buy B&C adjustable tactical stocks for $385 complete with 3-way adjustable but, cheek and Anshutz rail in the forearm. This is less than half of the cost of a comperably equiped Macmillian stock.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

You've kinda answered your own question.You get what you pay for the bell and carlson may be a decent stock it is not even close to the same level as a mcmillan or manners.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?


No I honestly can't see a significant difference in quality, reliability or accuracy between comperably optioned Mac, HSP and B&C tactical stocks when fitted by a competent fitter. They all seem to shoot equally well all things being equal personal preference and fit aside.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

Consider yourself lucky and enjoy. But I recommend never attempting this with a B&C.

 

[oneeyedmac]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

What's wrong with B&C's tactical stocks? I've shot Macmillan stocks and while first class they don't seem worth the price and a 6+ month wait to me. Honestly, how are the comperable model Macmillain tactical stocks better than B&C or HS Precision stocks? Right now you can buy B&C adjustable tactical stocks for $385 complete with 3-way adjustable but, cheek and Anshutz rail in the forearm. This is less than half of the cost of a comperably equiped Macmillian stock.
</div></div>

Not a thing in the world wrong with a B & C, I shipped a rifle to a customer today with a very nice B&C Varmint tactical on it, I'm building another rifle for a customer right now who wants a B&C varmint/tactical and one of my personal rifles has a B&C light tactical on it. I think you get a lot for your money out of a B & C.

I'm just saying that on a build using top notch components we usually see a McMillan or Manners.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneeyedmac</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

What's wrong with B&C's tactical stocks? I've shot Macmillan stocks and while first class they don't seem worth the price and a 6+ month wait to me. Honestly, how are the comperable model Macmillain tactical stocks better than B&C or HS Precision stocks? Right now you can buy B&C adjustable tactical stocks for $385 complete with 3-way adjustable but, cheek and Anshutz rail in the forearm. This is less than half of the cost of a comperably equiped Macmillian stock.
</div></div>

Not a thing in the world wrong with a B & C, I shipped a rifle to a customer today with a very nice B&C Varmint tactical on it, I'm building another rifle for a customer right now who wants a B&C varmint/tactical and one of my personal rifles has a B&C light tactical on it. I think you get a lot for your money out of a B & C.

I'm just saying that on a build using top notch components we usually see a McMillan or Manners. </div></div>

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

dmg308, I have drug a McMillan stock all over this planet. My rifle currently runs a B&C Light Tactical.

It's two completely different ways of doing things.

With the Aluminum chassis surrounded by fiberglass I am sure I probably could park my truck on my stock....however since I have yet to see a mission that requires it, it's not in my build requirements.

B&C puts out some very high quality stocks for VERY reasonable prices. They just plain work, and work well. I can't wait to see if mine gets any better with a skim bed job.

I am sure I will eventually buy another McMillan because it's a great product and I like what the company stands for. It's just not the ONLY stock I can depend on.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

LW I did not knock the B&C for it is a decent stock.But if someone is using the best components(surgeon action ,rock barrel,jewell etc)it would be in thier interest to get the best stocks as well.I've had some less then favorable results with aluminum bedding blocks.Most people wind up bedding them and that kinda defeats the purpose.
As you said you drug a mcmillan all over the planet as have alot of good men.The Marines have been using them for over a quarter decade and that says something longevity in the service like that does'nt come by accident.

 

[cypriss32]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

Had B&C, Does nothing for me period. Owned a few of them, buddies have them. I take them out and come back with less then we left with.....

Hs is a decent quality stock, Can be had for price of a B&C.
Thow after dealing with Manners Composite and Scott @ MCgrees Precision, I wont be taking my money back to these great guys with great products and The BEST customer service.....

 

[Mark21]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

Guys -- how would I know if the B&C is affecting my rifle? Is it only the "toughness"? If I will mostly be shooting it on benchrests and on grassy praries (all I have around here in the Midwest), that is not a large concern.

But are any of you saying that the stock may affect my accuracy, downgrading the quality of all the other components I have used? Now THAT would be a problem for me...

Thanks much for all the input so far.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

I don't see any way that a B&C with the Aluminum block properly skim bedded would degrade the accuracy of any of the other components. As long as the stock allows the action to be mounted in a repeatable manner and does not allow it to shift from shot to shot the rest is all a matter of personal ergonomics.

Take it for what it's worth. I am not a gunsmith. I am just a poor former Jarhead that spends money where money is needed to get the results I desire.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

LW is correct it is a ruggedness issue only as long as it presents a conssitent stress free platform accuracy will be achieved.

 

[studog51]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Consider yourself lucky and enjoy. But I recommend never attempting this with a B&C.

</div></div>
hahahahaha thats one crazy tough stock, i wouldn't try that with one of my mcmillans

 

[YAOG]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly


dmg308,

"Best" components for what? Certainly not the "best" performance for the money and IMO certainly not the "best" use of money for a working weapon.

If the OP is going to have his new weapon built up to his own specs by a specialist gunsmith the OP might just as well start with a factory Remington 700 as the core receiver/bolt. Even using a fancy pants new custom receiver, bolt and pipe any critically minded gunsmith will require that the entire parts list be completely machined and trued to one another. Once you get to this level you might just as well use the much less expensive and well proven (what 40 years or so?) factory Remington 700 parts to start with because you can achieve just as good or better results with the lower cost parts as the machine work required is going to be the same. For the money the OP saves on fancy parts he can now afford to buy a top notch set of rings and USO or S&B scope that is appropriate for the role the OP envisions using the new weapon for.

Just a thought.

 

[pell1203]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

Jeezzz! Is that a rear wheel or a front wheel test? :

:

 

[YAOG]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?


Wait a minute, do you mean to say that you actually think the most expensive core components should all be used together? I mean I can sort of see that mental aesthetic for a "nicer" tactical weapon. Which I guess is some of the reason I see so many of the SDG (Same Darned Guns) at the range, seriously they could all be the same gun!

Personally I think people are just not confident enough in their own knowledge and choices to buck the tac/precision weapon "uniform" so to speak. So they simply pick components they have seen and heard about pushed here or the other websites they frequent and have their gunsmith jig them all up and hopefully create a weapon capable of working up to the real potential of the cartridge selected. This rarely happens as planed I see it in the faces and eyes of the poor guy who just spent a small fortune and can't shoot inside 1/2" at 100 yards. So to avoid the potential for failure and the realization that their gunsmith is not as good as both he and they think he is people just buy what they see and hear are the best that they can afford. So instead of people making informed decisions based on solid mechanical understanding and ideas they make choices based on fear of the unknown and the belief that there is safety in numbers instead of a solid mechanical understanding of the way firearms work.

In my experience there is more to be had out of a particular weapon if you start with known good off of the shelf factory parts and spending the money on more shop time for slower tighter machine work and assembly than custom parts that need all of the same operations on the lathe and milling machines any way.

 

[our gang]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

My $.02.....After you earn you DSM, you can worry about all this stuff. Shooting A LOT is far more important than barrel brand or who makes your stock. A guy who has driven SCCA for every race for 5 years driving a $50,000 Vette will kick the ass off the guy with a $150,000 Porsche who only drives on the highway. Too many people today think technology will solve inexperience. When you can hit an 8" paper plate, very first shot, every shot, from real world positions in real world conditions at 600 yards, THEN you can start worring about about the differences between a Bushnell 6500 and a Schmidt & Bender. There is no substitute for trigger time.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My $.02.....After you earn you DSM, you can worry about all this stuff. Shooting A LOT is far more important than barrel brand or who makes your stock. A guy who has driven SCCA for every race for 5 years driving a $50,000 Vette will kick the ass off the guy with a $150,000 Porsche who only drives on the highway. Too many people today think technology will solve inexperience. When you can hit an 8" paper plate, very first shot, every shot, from real world positions in real world conditions at 600 yards, THEN you can start worring about about the differences between a Bushnell 6500 and a Schmidt & Bender. There is no substitute for trigger time.</div></div>

Very good ideas, I can only add, think of the stock as a handle. The purpose is control of the rifle; and, obviously, it's necessary for proper aiming and follow through. As long as it's comfortable, as well as connected to the barreled action to preclude the barreled action's independent movement, most any will, to a degree, help the shooter to get the job done. Thing is, for best results, the stock must fit the shooter, to allow for a muscularly relaxed position, as well as sight alignment. Some folks can get by with one size fits all, I know that the M16 rifle fits me so well I want for nothing; however, shooting my bolt gun, I'm only muscularly relaxed when the 3-way butt, integrated adjustable comb, and hand stop are adjusted to fit my body.

The point is, as Mr. Humble alluded to, the right stock for you is going to be one that fits you. If you're going to be shooting from all sorts of hasty positions, compromise may be necessary, or, you could get a stock that provides for comb and butt adjustments on the fly, assuring comfort in any position, if the stock's weight and lessened strength are not going to become issues.

 

[Mark21]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Wait a minute, do you mean to say that you actually think the most expensive core components should all be used together? I mean I can sort of see that mental aesthetic for a "nicer" tactical weapon. Which I guess is some of the reason I see so many of the SDG (Same Darned Guns) at the range, seriously they could all be the same gun!

Personally I think people are just not confident enough in their own knowledge and choices to buck the tac/precision weapon "uniform" so to speak. So they simply pick components they have seen and heard about pushed here or the other websites they frequent and have their gunsmith jig them all up and hopefully create a weapon capable of working up to the real potential of the cartridge selected. This rarely happens as planed I see it in the faces and eyes of the poor guy who just spent a small fortune and can't shoot inside 1/2" at 100 yards. So to avoid the potential for failure and the realization that their gunsmith is not as good as both he and they think he is people just buy what they see and hear are the best that they can afford.
</div></div>

YAOG --

The thinking behind my components went like this:

I was going to originally buy a stock 700 5r in 308 (roughly $1,000), have it trued ($350), put on an aftermarket stock ($500-900), and MAYBE mess with the trigger if I didn't like the X-Mark trigger.

So I was looking at $1,000 + $350 + 500 = 1,850 for my rifle.

Then I saw the new Surgeon action going for $675. Add to that a Mike Rock barrel for somewhere between $300 and $400, a B&C stock for $400 with Seekins DBM ($300), and a Jewel trigger ($200), and I could get the equivalent of a Porsche for maybe 10% more than the Corvette, to use an analogy from another post above.

As for the gunsmith I'm using, Harold Fredd has done quite a few rigs for guys on here and elsewhere, and they are all shooters, so that is the furthest concern from my mind.

In the end, I want a rifle that outshoots me, so I know all error is mine, and something that will grow with me as I improve. I just wanted to check on here whether I was making some kind of egregious mistake with one of these components. Granted, it seems the B&C isn't too popular, but I personally like the feel of it, and as long as my accuracy is not degraded, then why not go with it.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark21</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> and as long as my accuracy is not degraded, then why not go with it. </div></div>

Well, for starters, if you can't acquire a chipmunk stockweld for a proper sight picture, I don't think you would want to go with it.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Granted, it seems the B&C isn't too popular......</div></div>

You don't see B&C bragged on as much because it's not "mil-spec" or used by SEALs, Delta, SOCOM, etc. and doesn't appear front and center of the cover of every "Special Weapons" magazine. In the past they put out some very basic stocks.

Nowadays they put out a very high quality product. If it wasn't, then it would have no place on my duty gun. There is no doubt that it will serve you perfectly well as a paper puncher/plinker/hunter IF it fits you. I did have to build up the comb on mine for a proper cheek weld, but I have to do that on just about any non-adjustable stock.

 

[Mark21]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark21</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> and as long as my accuracy is not degraded, then why not go with it. </div></div>

Well, for starters, if you can't acquire a chipmunk stockweld for a proper sight picture, I don't think you would want to go with it. </div></div>

Sterling Shooter -- the cheekpiece is fully adjustable:

http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-108/mcmillan-a5-stock-tactical/Detail

(yes, the link says mcmillan, but it goes to the B&C). I don't think it is easily adjustable without tools, but once I set it, it should be fine.

LoneWolf -- it gives me comfort knowing that is the stock on your duty gun!

FYI -- I'm not here to say, "Give me your thoughts", and then reject all criticisms coming my way. I appreciate all viewpoints and opinions. Helps me with my decisions both now and on future builds.

 

[johngfoster]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

That stock looks nothing like an "A5". However, if it fits you, it should work well. It does look "tacticool". I'd be interested to see pics of your new stick when you have it up and running.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

I have not used their "adjustable", but I am sure it will work fine.

I have the "plain jane" Light Tactical:

The scope will be swapped out for a SN-3 as soon as it gets here.

 

[marku]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

Then I saw the new Surgeon action going for $675. Add to that a Mike Rock barrel for somewhere between $300 and $400, a B&C stock for $400 with Seekins DBM ($300), and a Jewel trigger ($200), and I could get the equivalent of a Porsche for maybe 10% more than the Corvette, to use an analogy from another post above.

Mark your leaving some money out. Chambering and installation service of the barrel will run $250.00

Youll want that stock skim beded which will run around $200.00

Then other fitting parts like the DBM system etc.

 

[Rust]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly

Well, ignoring all the chest beating over whos stock is the best, here's one suggestion.

Buy your own reamer, tell Dave Kiff at PTG that you'll be using Redding dies and he'll send you a reamer that works very well with a Redding FL sizing die (either the standard FL die or the S type bushing die. Makes brass last a long time as when the brass does need FL sizing it gets sized just enough. Unlike something like for instance the horrendously oversized Remington factory chamber....

Nice thing about having your own reamer is you don't end up reinventing the wheel every time you rebarrel.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?


Mr. Humble,

I agree with you, experience sending lead down range with your own weapon is important. The car analogy is a poor one because at least with production automobiles a LOT of technology can help to make up for seat time wittness the 4,100 lb. GT-R.

But the with firearms I agree with you it's pretty much just you and the rock you are trying to throw through that burning hoop as it rolls down the hill. But at some point your arm is just not going to be strong enough and you will need a better rock to throw (or better arm).

Cheers!

 

[YAOG]

Re: Am I going about my custom 308 build correctly?

Mark21,

Why not just buy a used Remington 700 action ($400), add a Jewel trigger ($200), Kreiger/Hart etc. barrel and chamber ($550) and have the whole thing trued up ($300) bedded/fitted ($100) in your ($500) tactical stock. You'd be into if for $2,000 and have potentially a much better shooting rifle. Of course you could also just call TacOps or GAP and send them money and wait for around a year or so by which time you could have saved up the money for the difference and some nice glass.

You forgot a few steps with your second build option. You still need to have it all trued up and a chamber cut in that spiffy barrel so add another $500 maybe? At this point you could just go order a TacOps or GAP gun and know that you have what you want.

I decided to buck the me too guns and just ordered a B&C adjustable Medallion tactical stock like this one, $400 at Stocky's. Hopefully it will work as well as people say they do with some minor fitting out in the garage/shop.

Cheers!