Has anyone messed with this stuff? Getting my rifle regardless with MTU 22" 1:10 5R bbl and have been eyeballing this stuff. Price is definitely right.
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Range Report American Marksman/Bullets 1st M118LR ammo
- Thread starter Dsparil
- Start date
1/2 to 3/4 MOA at 800yds for a decent price is pretty reasonable...
Getting my rig rebarreled with a bartlein 1:10. running it at 24". Hopefully i can get routine 3/4 moa.I'll be content with that.
They're packaged in bulk boxes. Didn't seen any dents or knicks. Bought 1200 rounds of the stuff. Just waiting for my rifle back already
Been shooting some for a couple weeks now. It's fine for banging steel on the farm. Paper groups at 128 meters (just what the target was set at) hovers around an inch. Out of rem700 26in.
Edit: I'll add for the price it's not bad. They had some 118LR seconds I'm waiting on for .88 a round.
I was told specifically that the 7.62SMK and M118LRs were the same load. Markings on casings were different. That's it.
Just FYI. Factory Rem 700?
Anyone tried this stuff at 1000 yards?
Just FYI. Factory Rem 700?
Anyone tried this stuff at 1000 yards?
I figured they were but never asked. That's good to know. Yeah mine is just a remington police model. Bedded and weighted stock. Shot off of bipod and rear bag.
Hopefully soon I'll get some rounds at longer distance. Waiting on a full size steel target to put at 800 meters. I'll add more when I get more data
Hopefully soon I'll get some rounds at longer distance. Waiting on a full size steel target to put at 800 meters. I'll add more when I get more data
Don't mean to hijack but anyone know the difference between the .308 and 7.62 loads?
Aside from .308 being loaded hotter?
Aside from .308 being loaded hotter?
I did, read the whole thing actually...
**ETA**
I'm asking how the 308 differs from the 7.62 or from the M118LR which I believe are both the same.
I believe someone above posted the 7.62 and M118LR are loaded the same, which if that's what you're referring to, I see no mention of .308 there.
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I purchased some of the M118LR (7.62) and some of the .308 SMK and chrono'd both out of a Tikka T3x CTR 20" and got roughly the same velocity. I think they're pretty much the same. The .308 SMK is significantly cheaper (as seen below on my purchase emails)
| BULLETS 1ST - .308 WIN 175 GR SIERRA MATCH KING - 125 CT Product ID: F-BF-308-175SMK-B-125 | 5 | $108.75 |
| BULLETS 1ST - 7.62 M118LR 175 GR - 125 CT Product ID: F-BF-762-M118LR-B-125 | 3 | $150.00 |
I was averaging about 2465'ish with both out of the Tikka CTR 20". I've read that Tikkas generally have "slower" barrels.
EDIT: Had a Savage 308 with a 24" barrel that averaged 2546 with the same rounds.
EDIT 2: Actually the Savage just had the M118LR rounds through it, not the .308 SMK ones. Average MV 2546.
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Well if I can ever get my rig back from my local smith I'll let you know out of a 24" Bartlein 5R
The cases can be slightly different. I have two .308 win guns that won't chamber 7.62 NATO.
I also have a HK91 that will blow primers out of the pockets with .308 win ammo. I discovered this when I pulled the trigger on the first round out of a 20 round magazine, and the primer blew out and fell down into the trigger mechanism, jamming up the sear/catch. That was definitely a rock-and-roll moment. I recall the first 2 hit the paper, the next 2 hit the top of the berm, and the next 16 went into the trees somewhere. I spent the rest of the time loading one 308win at a time in that gun, and it still blew several primers. From that day forward, I never used anything but 7.62 NATO in that gun and never had any more problems.
It shoots damn good out of a national match M1A. Been to 1,000 yards with it. I can hold it 4 MOA or better with the irons.
When you buy it, it comes in 125 round boxes. Eight boxes to a case.
Fyi current stuff at least is mixed LC headstamps. Around 3/4-1moa shooting random rounds through a 24in Rock Creek barreled 700. Sorting headstamps it's closer to 1/2moa. 25 degrees I was seeing 2580-2590fps.
I have had 2 FTF out of less than 100rds. Looks like light primer strikes. I need to look over everything closely first. Maybe it's my gun causing light strikes with those primers or possibly excessive headspace?
I have had 2 FTF out of less than 100rds. Looks like light primer strikes. I need to look over everything closely first. Maybe it's my gun causing light strikes with those primers or possibly excessive headspace?
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With the price of FGMM lately I've been looking for a similar alternative and I'm strongly considering buying some of this to see how my bolt gun likes it. Does anyone have any more info or testing on this product or know anything more about the manufacturer/retailer?
I'm also curious on their brass situation. I believe at one point it was all the same headstamp new brass. Now I believe you get once fired brass from all sorts of different headstamp. Can anyone confirm?
I have received my order today. I haven’t made it out to Chrono yet. But I can confirm they are all the exact same cases.
So I made it out to my range today and was able to record 27 shots. The following information is what the Magnetospeed XFR app fetched from my Magnetospeed Sporter…
Shots…27
Max…2716
Min…2662
ES…54
Avg…2687
SD…12.9
Now I’m not going to lie. I’m brand new to the world of Chronoing so I honestly have no idea what them numbers really tell us other than the velocity of the bullets.
I know ES=Extreme Spread
SD=Standard Deviation
And obviously Avg=Average.
But what I don’t know is what the Standard Deviation tells me. I get that extreme spread is the difference between the highest and lowest recorded velocities. So if someone could help explain what the SD tells us I would highly appreciate it.
Shots…27
Max…2716
Min…2662
ES…54
Avg…2687
SD…12.9
Now I’m not going to lie. I’m brand new to the world of Chronoing so I honestly have no idea what them numbers really tell us other than the velocity of the bullets.
I know ES=Extreme Spread
SD=Standard Deviation
And obviously Avg=Average.
But what I don’t know is what the Standard Deviation tells me. I get that extreme spread is the difference between the highest and lowest recorded velocities. So if someone could help explain what the SD tells us I would highly appreciate it.
Basically the standard margin of error for a statistic.
For Ballistics this will come into play with hit probability. AB's WEZ calculator can show you how this matters.
A similar free online one is here:
Hit Probability Calculator
A free hit probability calculator for long range shooting.
bisonballistics.com
ETA:
A good but rather long video that shows SD differences in WEZ:
Basically, think of the bell curve. The average (mean) is the center of the peak. The curve is split into groups (SD). The majority of the rounds (68%) will be within two SDs, one on either side of the average.
So in your test, most of the rounds were within 26fps. Off the top of my head, if you were to run a ballistic calculation it would add around 1 MOA of vertical dispersion at 1,000yds. At 600yds it probably is half that, which would fall within most shooters' ability to hold and wouldn't be noticed. That's not too shabby for a lower-cost alternative to Fed GMM, handloads, or custom ammo.
Thanks for the range report.
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Thank you both that explained what SD means and how it’s used. And you’re welcome for the range report. I’ll post again when I make another trip out to the range.
I just tried some of the AG M118LR and it was just meh for me. Rifle is a Desert Tech SRS with a 22.5" barrel and Silencer Tech suppressor. Avg MV was 2614, but only for five shots. ES of 26 and SD of 11.6.
I didn't think of it until I started writing, but of the 5 shots, 3 were LC18 brass and 2 were LC19. I had an odd group, where 3 shots were grouped together about 0.3 left and about 0.1 low, and 2 shots grouped about 0.3 low. I'm wondering if the 3 LC18 grouped together to the left and the two LC19 grouped low. Accuracy was about 0.75" to 1", so nothing special, in my opinion, but for the price ($1.05 to $1.09 a round, depending on how many you buy), it's not bad to have on hand.
I'll separate by head stamp and see if I can confirm my suspicion that head stamp year sorting, as someone else mentioned above, will lead to better results.
I also shot some ADI Outback ammo loaded with a 168 SMK and I wish I had bought more when I had the chance a few years ago.
I didn't think of it until I started writing, but of the 5 shots, 3 were LC18 brass and 2 were LC19. I had an odd group, where 3 shots were grouped together about 0.3 left and about 0.1 low, and 2 shots grouped about 0.3 low. I'm wondering if the 3 LC18 grouped together to the left and the two LC19 grouped low. Accuracy was about 0.75" to 1", so nothing special, in my opinion, but for the price ($1.05 to $1.09 a round, depending on how many you buy), it's not bad to have on hand.
I'll separate by head stamp and see if I can confirm my suspicion that head stamp year sorting, as someone else mentioned above, will lead to better results.
I also shot some ADI Outback ammo loaded with a 168 SMK and I wish I had bought more when I had the chance a few years ago.
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Update:
I sorted the rest of the rounds I brought with me by headstamp years and shot significantly better.
LC19 put together a decent group. Ignore that shot on the low left that was a part of some FGMM 175. Also, my scope was still zeroed for 6.5 Creedmoor
I was limited to 612 yards today, but it held about 1 MOA, maybe just a little under. It won't replace handloads, but after sorting by headstamp, it did seem to shoot quite a bit better, albeit with a limited sample size. I find the bang for the buck (pun intended) is pretty decent, so I'll buy more just to keep in hand for range days.
I sorted the rest of the rounds I brought with me by headstamp years and shot significantly better.
LC19 put together a decent group. Ignore that shot on the low left that was a part of some FGMM 175. Also, my scope was still zeroed for 6.5 Creedmoor
I was limited to 612 yards today, but it held about 1 MOA, maybe just a little under. It won't replace handloads, but after sorting by headstamp, it did seem to shoot quite a bit better, albeit with a limited sample size. I find the bang for the buck (pun intended) is pretty decent, so I'll buy more just to keep in hand for range days.
175 .308 is back in stock for under a buck a pop... I need another guinea pig to report back before I jump on a full case.
M118LR is caliber 7.62x51 and not .308win. They are not the same. The Bullets 1st stuff I've shot in my rifles chambered for 7.62x51 shot great.
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